jmacnamara's Units and stuff

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guille1434
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Re: jmacnamara's Units and stuff

Post by guille1434 » Mon May 05, 2014 11:34 pm

jmac: Just a little comment about the E10 tank destroyer... If you think it is not important, just let it go... But I realized about that icon being a little oversized. This was a comparatively little AFV, in fact I think it used the same roadwheels as the late Tiger I and Tiger II, so to look in (aproximately) the same sacle to those other tanks, it should be reduced to a size where the roadwheels measure the same (or just a little more to avoid spoiling the model making it so small) than the previously named heavy tanks... But, if you are not planning to make the icons in a proportionate scale, that graphic looks great, anyway!

Just a comment, no more...

jmacnamara
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Re: jmacnamara's Units and stuff

Post by jmacnamara » Tue May 06, 2014 5:29 am

guille1434: The size of the E-10 has been bothering me too and I agree with you, as it is now, it is simply too big. I'll revisit its graphics files today and will try a couple of smaller sizes. Just a touch (4 pixels horizontal at most) smaller than the Hetzer should do, I hope.

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Re: jmacnamara's Units and stuff

Post by jmacnamara » Tue May 06, 2014 6:38 am

Okay, this is what I have quickly whipped up:
presentation_grid.png
presentation_grid.png (105.09 KiB) Viewed 1995 times
1. Panther A/D for reference
2. Panzer IV F-2/G for reference
3. Hetzer for reference
4. Retouched E-10 model originally by Churchlakecity
5. My original E-10 model (752x488 scaled to 148x96)
6. My original E-10 model scaled further down (752x488 scaled to 138x90)
7. My original E-10 model scaled further down (752x488 scaled to 128x83)
8. My original E-10 model scaled further down (752x488 scaled to 118x77)

I'm a bit torn between 7 and 8 with a bias towards 8. Smaller than 8 would leave all tracks and little model, I fear, and 8 seems smaller than the Hetzer. What do you guys think?

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Re: jmacnamara's Units and stuff

Post by iceFlame » Tue May 06, 2014 8:20 am

jmacnamara wrote:Here's a short guide as to how I made the Loewe.
Thanks for sharing your method. Hopefully it'll help other modders with new icons! :)
Image
Go deep here: slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=147&t=49469

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Re: jmacnamara's Units and stuff

Post by guille1434 » Tue May 06, 2014 12:21 pm

Yes, number eight seems to be right on the spot, but it should be good to be able to check the real model measures... I would be able to do it, but later today... Now, real life work is calling! :-)
Thanks for considering my opinions!

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Re: jmacnamara's Units and stuff

Post by jmacnamara » Tue May 06, 2014 12:52 pm

guille1434 wrote:Thanks for considering my opinions!
You're welcome. I am always willing to listen to good points being made, even it leads to me doing more work than I hoped I would have to do. :-)

I'm having a spot of trouble finding measurements for the E-10. The Hetzer is 6.38m long, 2.62m wide and 2.17m high. What I could find about the E-10 was its height, which was 1.76m or 1.40m, depending on whether it was in ambush position. Combine this with the 7th post in this thread:

http://www.shipbucket.com/forums/viewto ... 3&start=40

I can't vouch for the validity of the image, but it would appear my version 7 would be preferable over 8. I'll try to hunt for more precise length data for the E-10 later. Or, I could always scale it to 123x80 and call it version 7.5.

Edit: 5.35m long, 2.86 wide. This contradicts my quoted source. Version 8 is looking good again.

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Re: jmacnamara's Units and stuff

Post by guille1434 » Wed May 07, 2014 1:38 am

jmacnamara wrote:
I'm having a spot of trouble finding measurements for the E-10. The Hetzer is 6.38m long, 2.62m wide and 2.17m high. What I could find about the E-10 was its height, which was 1.76m or 1.40m, depending on whether it was in ambush position. Combine this with the 7th post in this thread:
What a good opportunity to make the unit switchable!!

Switch 1: Normal ground height, te vehicle as like a normal tank destroyer
Switch 2: Low ground clearance... Better Ground Defense, and may be Air defense. Movement = 1 only (to allow it to fall back if suppressed, but not to move long distances)

Indeed, it proved difficcult to find the E-10 measures, so let's take credit to the values you quote... But, if the vehicle was equipped with the 7,5 cm L/48, its length should be equal to the hetzer, and in the current graphic is a bit longer. I think both gun barrels should be the same lengh...

Otherwise, option 8 remains as the best one.

Good work! :-)

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Re: jmacnamara's Units and stuff

Post by Razz1 » Wed May 07, 2014 4:06 am

It was slightly bigger than a Pz 38t as it was based on that chassis.

4.61 x 2.135 x 2.252 verses a Hetzer at
6.38 x 2.62 x 2.17

I think 8 is a better choice

jmacnamara
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Re: jmacnamara's Units and stuff

Post by jmacnamara » Wed May 07, 2014 5:26 am

Thank you all for the feedback. I will go for number 8, but I will clip the barrel to match the barrel of the Hetzer.

@guille1434: Switchable is a very good idea. I've altered the large image to ambush position and this is what I came up with:
E10.5a_hulldown_demo.png
E10.5a_hulldown_demo.png (38.77 KiB) Viewed 1945 times
Note that the proportions match perfectly. I will probably not paint a small portion of visible track on the other side of the vehicle, because at first glance when shrunk to Panzer Corps size, they will look like artefacts/clutter and will just detract from the image.

Now for the stats.

These are rezaf's original stats:

Code: Select all

11527	E-10	3	325	5	50	5	1	0	8	5	16	0	1	12	10	1	E-10.png	01.01.1946	01.01.1946	1	0	0			Jagdpanzer E-10	fixedt nopurchase	Entw			sea rail glider	
This is what I propose, taking your suggestions along:

Code: Select all

4351	JagdPz E-10	3	325	5	50	5	1	0	8	5	16	0	1	12	10	1	1	0	e10.png	01.04.1945	31.12.1946	0			Jagdpanzer E-10	fixedt primary		JagdPze10	4354		sea rail glider	
4354	JagdPz E-10	3	325	5	50	1	1	0	8	5	16	0	1	16	11	1	1	0	e10_amb.png	01.04.1945	31.12.1946	0			Jagdpanzer E-10	fixedt camo nopurchase		JagdPze10	4351		sea rail glider	
Movement reduced to 1, Air Defense increased +1 to 11, Ground Defense increased +4 to 16. The latter because it will be really harder to see and hit. Unit ID is done according to my own equipment file, but rezaf's are fine too, although I do not know what his next free ID is for the ambush version.

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Re: jmacnamara's Units and stuff

Post by rezaf » Wed May 07, 2014 8:59 am

jmacnamara wrote:@guille1434: Switchable is a very good idea.
No, it ain't. It's never a good idea!

I have developed a burning hatred towards guille (note: not really) because he made all these switchable units. It's tons of more work to introduce them in the TGA equipment file, because I have to take all those extra steps of coming up with stats for an additional unit, which sometimes is a lot of "guesswork". I tried my best to make it work, but I admit I've drawn the line with Strat-Bombers you can switch to Tac-Bombers and Infantry you can switch to stationary and so on, because ... cmon.
If somebody is willing to cook up stats for all those, I'll gladly incorporate them, but I won't do it. :|

In fact, I think I'll make a seperate post about this in the calling out the icon collectors thread.
_____
rezaf

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Re: jmacnamara's Units and stuff

Post by jmacnamara » Wed May 07, 2014 4:58 pm

rezaf wrote:No, it ain't. It's never a good idea!
Meh. I don't like doing extra work, so I'm sympathetic. :-)

Tanks could use a switch though. 'Tavern mode' where the crews are out drinking in the local towns, followed by 'Hangover mode'. Reminds me of the alternative hero traits thread I once read in a PGII or PeG forum.

Seriously, I don't use the field artillery/tank destroyer switches at all, because I think PC is a macro level game. In Steel Panthers it's not a problem, but here it seems a little weird to me. Then again, switches made the submarine a much more versatile and useful unit, as seen in iceFlame's clever mod. Infantry automatically digs in when stationary I believe, so a special 'dig in' switch would kinda break the game. Airplanes are right out though. When I buy a plane, I also buy its limitations.

But I solemnly promise to never introduce a unit without providing stats, if they aren't available elsewhere.

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Re: jmacnamara's Units and stuff

Post by guille1434 » Wed May 07, 2014 6:01 pm

jmac: good looking hull down E-10

Rezaf: It is my idea to design a system of stats values for the units I make as new to add, or the ones I make switchable, so sometime you will have the info... You can put those units aside, and add them to the "Grand Armory" when they are complete with its stats...

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Re: jmacnamara's Units and stuff

Post by jmacnamara » Wed May 07, 2014 8:28 pm

Almost done. Here are both the regular and the ambush version. I have added slightly shrunk insignia. If they look funny, let me know and I'll remove them permanently, or I'll just hand paint them in. The small model doesn't get insignia at all.

Regular:
E10.14.png
E10.14.png (13.95 KiB) Viewed 1903 times
Ambush:
E10_Amb.14.png
E10_Amb.14.png (12.36 KiB) Viewed 1903 times
The only thing left are the DCS masks and the E-10 is ready to be released into the wild.

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Re: jmacnamara's Units and stuff

Post by jmacnamara » Wed May 07, 2014 10:36 pm

A screenshot of the new E-10 in hunter and ambush mode. (Also featuring my new version of the E-25; still not happy about the color).
screen_e10_e25.jpg
screen_e10_e25.jpg (194.49 KiB) Viewed 1893 times

guille1434
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Re: jmacnamara's Units and stuff

Post by guille1434 » Thu May 08, 2014 12:23 am

NIce job with the E-10, also I like the E-25! :-)

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Re: jmacnamara's Units and stuff

Post by Razz1 » Thu May 08, 2014 3:44 am

Can you improve the wheels?

I can not see them at all. Looks like on black blob on the side.

See how the unit in the above screen shot? The one in the bottom left corner with 15 strength. Note how you can see the wheels.

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Re: jmacnamara's Units and stuff

Post by jmacnamara » Thu May 08, 2014 8:20 am

Razz1 wrote:Can you improve the wheels?

I can not see them at all. Looks like on black blob on the side.

See how the unit in the above screen shot? The one in the bottom left corner with 15 strength. Note how you can see the wheels.
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah! This means more work. :cry:

Before I tell you what I am going to do, I'll give you the rationale behind the significantly darkened tracks. When I make a unit, I keep DCS in mind. Sometimes a camo pattern's secondary color may make a unit's tracks light up like neon. Sometimes. I darken the tracks to prevent this. Sure, I have the skills to tweak a camo pattern, but not everybody does. A pattern may look great on the unit's surface, but its tracks will look terrible. Sometimes.

What I am going to do? As I have made only four units (Loewe, E-10, E-10 Ambush and E-25 [Not yet released]), I can go back and do them again without darkening. I may cut a few corners, cause I will offer only a comparison at first, both in European theater schemes and in desert schemes. Then we will judge which looks better. And I will keep an open mind. Although I already know someone will come out and will say something along the lines of "Can't you do something in between?". Then I will scream again. :-)

And will probably alter them again, cause I really do enjoy making these and want them to be as good as I can make them. So thank you for noting an area of improvement.

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Re: jmacnamara's Units and stuff

Post by jmacnamara » Thu May 08, 2014 11:40 am

@Razz1: You were right, they generally look better. I still have the E-10 to redo, and then I will post a few comparison screenshots.

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Re: jmacnamara's Units and stuff

Post by jmacnamara » Thu May 08, 2014 12:57 pm

Old style on top, untouched track color at the bottom.

European theater:
screen_europe_track_demo.jpg
screen_europe_track_demo.jpg (197.4 KiB) Viewed 1851 times
Desert theater:
screen_desert_track_demo.jpg
screen_desert_track_demo.jpg (196.66 KiB) Viewed 1851 times

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Re: jmacnamara's Units and stuff

Post by guille1434 » Thu May 08, 2014 2:14 pm

If allowed to, I vote for the "not so dark" tracks... After all, the DCS camo software gives the user the possibility of choosing a darker secondary or tertiary color if the one chosen by the software is too bright... This is much closer to "my" style... :-)

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