GC Unit Revisions v12 beta2 (June 15, 2014)

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deducter
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Re: GC Unit Revisions v12 beta1 (May 27, 2014)

Post by deducter » Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:54 pm

I was partly waiting around for people to post comments on what they thought of the changes. Even though I labeled it a beta patch, it's plenty playable. I've made some personal modifications already, nothing major, just tweaking some numbers to get the combat to feel more correct. For instance, you should notice that even green Stukas are absolutely devastating in open ground, but much less effective against targets in close terrain. You should notice that artillery is devastating to lightly entrenched units, but much less effective against entrenched units. I also hope players feel more free to use reinforcements even early, since there's no pressure anymore to overstrength bombers/artillery and to preserve the overstrength points of those units. Personally, I think the new changes are working out quite well.

Updates won't be fast and furious like in the past, but I'm still working on things. I'm nearly done with GC42 too.

scypion
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Re: GC Unit Revisions v12 beta1 (May 27, 2014)

Post by scypion » Thu Jun 12, 2014 5:14 pm

Great news :) I should start a new campaign then and give you some feedback. Any plans for new LP ?? :)

deducter
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Re: GC Unit Revisions v12 beta2 (June 15, 2014)

Post by deducter » Sun Jun 15, 2014 12:51 pm

Update for v12 b2

guille1434
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Re: GC Unit Revisions v12 beta2 (June 15, 2014)

Post by guille1434 » Sun Jun 15, 2014 1:48 pm

Deducter: Thanks for continuing work with this fine mod! Do you plan to update the excellent manual that was included in the previous version also? That would be great! :-)

Waffenamt
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Re: GC Unit Revisions v12 beta2 (June 15, 2014)

Post by Waffenamt » Sun Jun 15, 2014 7:10 pm

Hi Deducter,

Many thanks for continuing your work on this excellent mod. I'm currently using v1.11.1 and am slogging through Stalingrad Docks so I didn't mind taking a break to check out this new beta. I play at FM level and only allow the new "superhero" units to join and finish the current battle before disbanding them as I much prefer developing my own units and my game is also enhanced with plenty of that amazing eye candy out there.

I decided to revisit Lodz with your 1.2a beta. I have a saved endgame with 1.11 which I looked at afterwards so I was able to do a basic comparison.

1.11 - DV 1093 points, no losses, 1 minor vhex remaining plus an enemy tank 4 strength and AA 10 strength left.
I purchased a pionier unit, mountain troops, 105mm arty and Bf 109 sqdn.

1.2a - DV 1025 points, no losses, 1 minor vhex remaining, no enemy units remaining
Coincidentally I'd purchased the same mix of units.

I really like the fact that it is more devastating to get caught in the open. My main Stuka took full advantage of this, but even the Pz Is did better. the enemy AA lowered the strength of the aux Bf 110 and Rudel's recon sqdn as I intentionally used them to draw fire. The Bf 109s were unable to do any strafing attacks as you intended. One comment I have about this is I would have liked for them to use firepower on enemy only in the open but not cause losses but varying levels of suppression instead. This would assist the ground troops, but not give the fighters the huge advantage they had previously.

Please let me know if you have any specific questions about this test battle. I may just continue on with the next 1939 one for now, while I decide on whether to continue at Stalingrad with the previous mod or restart the battle with the new one when ready. Thanks again! :D

deducter
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Re: GC Unit Revisions v12 beta2 (June 15, 2014)

Post by deducter » Sun Jun 15, 2014 7:58 pm

Ogontion wrote:Hi Deducter,

Many thanks for continuing your work on this excellent mod. I'm currently using v1.11.1 and am slogging through Stalingrad Docks so I didn't mind taking a break to check out this new beta. I play at FM level and only allow the new "superhero" units to join and finish the current battle before disbanding them as I much prefer developing my own units and my game is also enhanced with plenty of that amazing eye candy out there.
I don't play with any of the new hero units either. Most of them are much too powerful. But this is completely up to the player.
I decided to revisit Lodz with your 1.2a beta. I have a saved endgame with 1.11 which I looked at afterwards so I was able to do a basic comparison.

1.11 - DV 1093 points, no losses, 1 minor vhex remaining plus an enemy tank 4 strength and AA 10 strength left.
I purchased a pionier unit, mountain troops, 105mm arty and Bf 109 sqdn.

1.2a - DV 1025 points, no losses, 1 minor vhex remaining, no enemy units remaining
Coincidentally I'd purchased the same mix of units.
1939 shouldn't feel much different. Players didn't really bother with any overstrength in that year anyway. But by 1940 the changes should start being felt. In particular Arras and Calais were tough battles; the latter was much harder than I remembered, although part of it was undoubtedly that my skill isn't quite what it used to be. I found myself going regularly for reinforcements mid-battle, whereas I don't think I did that ever before Moscow in 1941.
I really like the fact that it is more devastating to get caught in the open. My main Stuka took full advantage of this, but even the Pz Is did better. the enemy AA lowered the strength of the aux Bf 110 and Rudel's recon sqdn as I intentionally used them to draw fire. The Bf 109s were unable to do any strafing attacks as you intended. One comment I have about this is I would have liked for them to use firepower on enemy only in the open but not cause losses but varying levels of suppression instead. This would assist the ground troops, but not give the fighters the huge advantage they had previously.
It is my intention that anything caught in the open will be easy prey for your tanks/artillery/bombers. You should be wiping the floor with the hapless AI units as long as you use a combined arms approach. Entrenched units are much tougher though. I find myself being forced to attack into entrenched units that are barely suppressed, simply because heavily entrenched units are very hard to suppress by artillery. Pioneers are great for this. You might have to think a lot more about the ammunition of your various units instead of just auto-attacking everything in site with the closest convenient unit.

The intention of most of my changes is to wean the player off the classic strategy of stacking defense artillery/overstrength bombers and killing everything while barely taking any step losses. Once you get out of that mindset, you will start to realize that you'll need to conduct many more direct assaults than before. Now it's less about suppressing everything and attack than about using the right unit for the right job. There should always be some losses, but they should be be acceptable.
Please let me know if you have any specific questions about this test battle. I may just continue on with the next 1939 one for now, while I decide on whether to continue at Stalingrad with the previous mod or restart the battle with the new one when ready. Thanks again! :D
I would be very interested to hear your feedback if you want to try Stalingrad with v12 b2 of my mod. I have not played those scenarios yet, but I am about 80% sure that I would not be able to win a DV myself unless I bring a very specialized core that is heavy on pioneer and other elite infantry. Gone are the days when you can suppress everything and clean up the remainder with your 14+ strength super infantry. You will be forced into bloody assaults, and you will incur losses. Frankly, I think a MV in those scenarios in v12 is far more impressive than a DV in vanilla or even under v11 of my mod.

Waffenamt
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Re: GC Unit Revisions v12 beta2 (June 15, 2014)

Post by Waffenamt » Sun Jun 15, 2014 9:11 pm

Since this is my first attempt at Stalingrad Docks I think it would be quite a humbling experience if I approach this directly with your new mod. :shock: I think what I'll do is carry my previous save from the end of GC 1 and see how France feels first, and perhaps do the same with the GC 2 save if it doesn't go too badly, and even perhaps the GC 3 one. At least I've given these the once-through with a DV result. I can see late '42 getting very ugly, as it was historically. That will give me a better idea of what to expect, since I'm finding the Docks extremely challenging as it is now with your previous mod.

Regards

Rockety
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Re: GC Unit Revisions v12 beta2 (June 15, 2014)

Post by Rockety » Sun Jun 15, 2014 9:51 pm

Deducter, which difficulty level do you suggest for the new version of your mod?

deducter
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Re: GC Unit Revisions v12 beta2 (June 15, 2014)

Post by deducter » Sun Jun 15, 2014 9:54 pm

Rockety wrote:Deducter, which difficulty level do you suggest for the new version of your mod?
Whatever you are comfortable playing in vanilla, use that setting. I've been playing on Rommel.

rambodoc
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Re: GC Unit Revisions v12 beta2 (June 15, 2014)

Post by rambodoc » Mon Jun 16, 2014 9:53 pm

Welcome back Deductor,
I have played your Panzer corps mods more hours than I would like to admit. I am having trouble getting your current mod to work in the GME system. I have tried several times to get it to work and it just doesn't seem to take. Is there an easy way to see if the mod has taken. I have checked the cost of reg infantry and it is still 107 instead of 100 for your mod. My folder structure is D:\Program Files\Slitherine\Panzer Corps\Panzer Corps\MODS\GC Unit Revisions\DLC, in the DLC folder are GC 39 thru GC42. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I am new to the GME system but I can get the PG classic mod to run without any difficulty. Thanks again for all of your hard work. One admiring fan.

deducter
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Re: GC Unit Revisions v12 beta2 (June 15, 2014)

Post by deducter » Mon Jun 16, 2014 10:40 pm

rambodoc wrote:Welcome back Deductor,
I have played your Panzer corps mods more hours than I would like to admit. I am having trouble getting your current mod to work in the GME system. I have tried several times to get it to work and it just doesn't seem to take. Is there an easy way to see if the mod has taken. I have checked the cost of reg infantry and it is still 107 instead of 100 for your mod. My folder structure is D:\Program Files\Slitherine\Panzer Corps\Panzer Corps\MODS\GC Unit Revisions\DLC, in the DLC folder are GC 39 thru GC42. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I am new to the GME system but I can get the PG classic mod to run without any difficulty. Thanks again for all of your hard work. One admiring fan.
My description in the OP is not quite right. What you need to do is to make sure the "DLC" folder after you unzip the attachment is copied into the MODS folder in your Panzer Corps directory. So if you set it up right, you should see "DLC" in your MODS folder, and if you open DLC you should see 4 folders, GC39, GC40, GC41, GC42.

Glad you enjoyed the mod. If you want to leave feedback, I'm always listening.

rambodoc
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Re: GC Unit Revisions v12 beta2 (June 15, 2014)

Post by rambodoc » Mon Jun 16, 2014 11:47 pm

I tried your suggestion and just copied the DLC folder to the mods folder. The MODS folder now contains the DLC folder and the DLC folder contains the four GC folders. Unfortunately, it still doesn't seem to work. The costs of the infantry are still the normal cost and not what is listed in your equipment file. It doesn't appear to apply your settings.

Waffenamt
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Re: GC Unit Revisions v12 beta2 (June 15, 2014)

Post by Waffenamt » Tue Jun 17, 2014 12:46 am

Hi,

This is how I'm set up and it works fine:

MODS\GC Unit Revisions v1.21 b1\DLC\GCx

rambodoc
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Re: GC Unit Revisions v12 beta2 (June 15, 2014)

Post by rambodoc » Tue Jun 17, 2014 1:16 am

Hi Ogontoin, thanks for the help but I have that same folder set up and still just get the vanilla settings. I can still strafe with my Me 109. Wehr Inf is a cost of 107 instead of 100 as it should be in the equipment file for the gc unit revision. I am at a loss as to what I am doing that is not making this work.

Waffenamt
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Re: GC Unit Revisions v12 beta2 (June 15, 2014)

Post by Waffenamt » Tue Jun 17, 2014 2:09 am

I don't really know but did you disable any previous unit revisions mods before adding this one in? Just a wild guess, but it sounds like something could have been overwritten. Try disabling any mods and putting a fresh copy of the beta back in and just apply that. Other than that I don't know, but that's what I'd do.

deducter
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Re: GC Unit Revisions v12 beta2 (June 15, 2014)

Post by deducter » Tue Jun 17, 2014 3:34 am

Ogontion is right, I was wrong in my subsequent post; just unzip the file directly into the mods folder. It should actually read "GC Unit Revisions v1.21 b2."

The most likely explanation for why you are getting vanilla values is that you are using some other mod with Unit Revisions. Unfortunately, Unit Revisions is completely incompatible with any mod that changes either the exp.pzdat, equipment.pzdat, or gamerules.pzdat files.

You can also manually install the mod by copying the contents of each folder into your GC files. So for instance copy the contents of GC39 in unit revisions into your GC39 directoroy. But make a backup before you do so.

deducter
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Re: GC Unit Revisions v12 beta2 (June 15, 2014)

Post by deducter » Fri Jun 20, 2014 10:08 pm

Just out of curiosity, would anyone be interested in watching me stream PzC on occasion? I checked Twitch, there are almost no streamers for this game.

okiemcguire
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Re: GC Unit Revisions v12 beta2 (June 15, 2014)

Post by okiemcguire » Fri Jun 20, 2014 10:17 pm

Deducter... Please stream PzC. I always enjoyed your AAR videos. I have restarted the war with your current release and enjoy as always. Good to have you back...

scypion
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Re: GC Unit Revisions v12 beta2 (June 15, 2014)

Post by scypion » Sat Jun 21, 2014 6:47 am

stream stream stream !!! :) I waiting for it :)

Waffenamt
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Re: GC Unit Revisions v12 beta2 (June 15, 2014)

Post by Waffenamt » Sat Jun 21, 2014 3:35 pm

Hi,
I just thought I'd provide a little more feedback as I'm working through GC39. firstly, I'm really enjoying this revision and like the changes in general. It's playing out really well. I'm now a convert to using the 10.5cm guns over their larger counterparts.
I still have a bit of an issue with the fighters. I just watched a PZ P.11c fighter group find my FLaK 36 unit in AT mode. With the previous revision this would have resulted in the ground unit being ravaged, but this time they're simply going to be able to switch into AA mode next turn and unleash hell on the fighter unit. It seems the AI fighters are still behaving as if they can inflict damage on the ground units, and it this case the fighters would have found a ripe, juicy target and would have been lavishly rewarded. Unfortunately this time they have scored an own goal. Is there some way of compensating for the fact that the AI fighters still think they can inflict ground losses (so it seems). I know I've brought this up before, but even be to able to disrupt ground units to vary degrees or inflict minimal losses for the AI alone may help counteract this behavior. Just my thoughts. I defer to your much greater knowledge of the inner workings of this fine system.
Regards

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