Bugs, questions and suggestions!

4X strategy game from Proxy Studios

Moderators: Pandora Moderators, Slitherine Core

Post Reply
HusariaPL
Private First Class - Wehrmacht Inf
Private First Class - Wehrmacht Inf
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 6:27 pm

Bugs, questions and suggestions!

Post by HusariaPL » Tue Jun 30, 2015 7:33 pm

Hey there, first time posting here.

Bugs Encountered

1st = I bought the game during steam summer sale and I have been enjoying the game a lot. However I've encountered a bug, from my understanding the Agents can be attacked whenever and by whatever without triggering a war that much i can understand. However when i was sending a cyber agent to a neighbouring factions my agent had to cross a small body of water, this resulted in him naturally turning into a transport.
After finishing my turn i noticed, that the factions that i was about to infiltrate used an orbital bombardment on the transport carrying the Cyber Agent. This naturally caused the transport to be destroyed AND declared war on me, even though I had trading, research and a NON-AGGRESSION pacts.
Surprised by the declaration I reloaded a autosave and decided to move the Agent around the longer land route and I also made sure that she dies asap and this time it didn't result in a war.
This got me interested further and so I checked if I can use orbital bombardment on any transport of a faction that i have a non-aggression pact with, the result was obviously that i can't.
All of this made me come to conclusion that it is a bug with Agent's mechanic that allows him to be attacked by whoever regardless of diplomatic status. I did save before the incident and can provide my save file, my game is also of a vanilla version.

2nd = Not sure if I saw it correctly (was playing quite late at night) but i think my troopers received bonuses for being on mountain before guerrilla warfare project is completed.

While I am here typing, I also have few questions.

1. Is there are a way to stop growth? If so how?
2.How much weaker do you have to be in military strength in order for the relation between you and an AI to start dropping?
3.What do alliances grant? ( I am asking this after i realized that my ally didn't declare war on a faction that declared war on me)
4.Is there are way to boost gold and research received from research and trading pacts?
5.How are starting location of factions determined? (Curiosity got me after I landed 3 times in a row in tundra as Imperium)
6. Technologies are randomized all the time, but are they forced into tiers? Will a certain technology let's say Synthetic Fertiliser be in the first two columns of the tech tree?
7. Is alien aggression is faction specific or global? Will AI Imperium hive-burning affect alien aggression towards me ? What else affects it and by how much?

Also some suggestions while I am it! :idea:

A. - Give armor some other perks, better armors decrease movement, e.g. Zortium armor would decrease the movement by 1. Of course balancing might have to occur in order to buff later armors. Another perk that could be added would be increased resistance against xenomorphs or artillery fire. I realize that devices can be used to gain similar perks but I think armor themselves should offer something more apart from power and production cost gain and this could mean that devices can be used to counteract the debuff caused by the armor or provide another buff.

B. - Features such as Gaia Forest transform into something else when submerged and vice versa. Noticed that such features are destroyed when land on which they reside is sunked by a former. (Was trolling AI :mrgreen: ).

c. - Allow mechs to walk through Coast, from the compendium description of Goliath Mech it is says "Total weight of over hundred thousand tons, as much as the largest Earth aircraft carrier". Considering they weight their size be massive, therefore I think they should be able to cross shallow water tiles such as coast without turning into transports, I presume that a possible nerf to them in order to counteract this change would be to create "Large Transports" which are unlocked further down the tech tree or even disallow mechs from moving through ocean tiles at all.

D. - An option to disable randomized technology, as much as i love this feature, a friend of mine hates its to guts and i assume that he isn't the only one out there.

E. - A way to known the current alien aggression towards you would be nice, Something like a resource tooltip but with a % there. I keep getting attacked by aliens when the pop-up about alien aggression imminent fires.

F. - I did see a post about specific unit names depending on weapon, and would like to re-suggest that, even if it was just for unit types it would be great!

G. - More content is always better :D



Apart from that, I want to say that I really enjoy the game and I probably will for a long time even though i think the AI is as warmongering as Genghis Khan.
Thanks for reading!

Xilmi
Pandora Community Developer
Pandora Community Developer
Posts: 521
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 3:21 pm

Re: Bugs, questions and suggestions!

Post by Xilmi » Wed Jul 01, 2015 8:57 am

Well, then let me answer you post.

Would be great if you could provide me the save with the agent and the war declaration. I can well imagine that bug to exist and this could help me greatly to test if a fix is working without having to play half a game to provoke that situation myself. :)
HusariaPL wrote: 2nd = Not sure if I saw it correctly (was playing quite late at night) but i think my troopers received bonuses for being on mountain before guerrilla warfare project is completed.
You saw that right and it's not a bug. Troopers get a bonus on Forrest and Mountains all the time and getting Guerrilla Warfare increases this bonus by another 25%!
HusariaPL wrote: 1. Is there are a way to stop growth? If so how?
Yes, by lowering food production. I believe if you produce about 90% of the required amount of food population growth shall be 0. Note that an overall 0 means that some cities still grow while others slowly lose population depending on the migration caused by their habitat and happyness situation.
HusariaPL wrote: 2.How much weaker do you have to be in military strength in order for the relation between you and an AI to start dropping?
It is enough to be slightly weaker for it to start dropping. How fast it drops depends on the difference.
I think it is 1% per turn when they are twice as powerful. If they are 10% stonger then it is only 0.1% per turn.
The idea is that you can counteract it by paying tribute.

However, I would not bother too much, as I plan to change that anyways. Only the Imperium AI shall keep it and other factions would become pissed for other reasons instead.
HusariaPL wrote: 3.What do alliances grant? ( I am asking this after i realized that my ally didn't declare war on a faction that declared war on me)
Vision and that you are not considered a target to declare war on as long as the allience lasts.
HusariaPL wrote: 4.Is there are way to boost gold and research received from research and trading pacts?
It depends on you fraction of the worlds population. So by conquering cities of those who don't like to trade with you anyways you can increase the income. It also depends on what your opponents are producing. So playing on higher difficulty-levels will help with it too, especially with credit income since the AIs can afford higher taxes But then again this also has disadvantages.
HusariaPL wrote: 5.How are starting location of factions determined? (Curiosity got me after I landed 3 times in a row in tundra as Imperium)
It is not faction-specific at all. I'd say it's bad luck. But usually it is kinda balanced out. Which means when your position has little food, it has more of something else.
However, it is still highly randomized and a good or bad starting location can have much more impact on your chances throughout the game than even difficulty-level.
HusariaPL wrote: 6. Technologies are randomized all the time, but are they forced into tiers? Will a certain technology let's say Synthetic Fertiliser be in the first two columns of the tech tree?
Yes, each 2 rows in the tech-tree form one sub-tier. All techs are assigned to one of the 9 subtiers. Within their subtier their position and connections are randomized.
HusariaPL wrote: 7. Is alien aggression is faction specific or global? Will AI Imperium hive-burning affect alien aggression towards me ? What else affects it and by how much?
It is faction-specific and mostly controlled by turns. Each turn makes them more aggressive. Other things are: Killing aliens, building improvements, producing pollution. But those factors are quite small comparatively.

The most interesting of your suggestions was the one about the Mechs and the water. While from a programming point of view this should be easily doable, I think it will look stupid. I'll try it out though. Maybe there is an easy offset to their coordinate similar to how it looks when they are on a mountain, that can make it look like they are half under water. I think Mechs could need such a buff to their usability.
HusariaPL wrote: Apart from that, I want to say that I really enjoy the game and I probably will for a long time even though i think the AI is as warmongering as Genghis Khan.
I've noticed the AIs current overaggression aswell. It's a bit out of control and I'll do something about it. As I said, I'd like to have faction-specific behaviour and not that: "You are weak -> we hate you!" for everyone.

ErissN6
Master Sergeant - Bf 109E
Master Sergeant - Bf 109E
Posts: 476
Joined: Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:34 pm
Location: France

Re: Bugs, questions and suggestions!

Post by ErissN6 » Wed Jul 01, 2015 9:38 am

Yes, with the now IA, after the eclypse we have to always be the first military power to survive. If not, we soon are at war with the most powerfull, we lose some military power in the war, and then some other add to the war against us, we lose some city and then it's worst and worst we're doomed with at least half the factions against us wanting to take their share of the loot.

Paying tribute is paying a more powerfull to let it be even bigger. With no real alliance, alone, it's a bad move, for now the war is delayed but the game is doomed.
Last edited by ErissN6 on Wed Jul 01, 2015 4:41 pm, edited 3 times in total.

PvtHudson
Private First Class - Wehrmacht Inf
Private First Class - Wehrmacht Inf
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2015 11:17 am

Re: Bugs, questions and suggestions!

Post by PvtHudson » Wed Jul 01, 2015 9:47 am

Mech wading through shallow water knee-deep makes a wonderful PR screenshot! This certainly will catch Rok's attention. I second this idea.

HusariaPL
Private First Class - Wehrmacht Inf
Private First Class - Wehrmacht Inf
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 6:27 pm

Re: Bugs, questions and suggestions!

Post by HusariaPL » Wed Jul 01, 2015 9:54 am

http://www.filedropper.com/spywar - is the link to the save file that i was describing. The ambassadors are about to attack the transport carrying the spy as soon as you end the turn. (The spy is a bit to the left of Stakhanov.)

Also when I continued playing this morning I noticed that it might be simply connected to operations such as orbital bombardment and nuking since when my spy who was stationed on ground got nuked it also declared a war. I will also post the link to that that save too.

http://www.filedropper.com/spywar2 - a similar situation occurs, but this time the spy gets nuked (a bit of an excessive measure imo) when they are on ground. This causes a war with Terra Salvum. (The spy is below Zhukov)

Thanks for the quick reply!

Xilmi
Pandora Community Developer
Pandora Community Developer
Posts: 521
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 3:21 pm

Re: Bugs, questions and suggestions!

Post by Xilmi » Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:08 pm

Thanks, this more detailed description will certainly make the cause much easier to find!

Xilmi
Pandora Community Developer
Pandora Community Developer
Posts: 521
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 3:21 pm

Re: Bugs, questions and suggestions!

Post by Xilmi » Wed Jul 01, 2015 9:04 pm

PvtHudson wrote:Mech wading through shallow water knee-deep makes a wonderful PR screenshot! This certainly will catch Rok's attention. I second this idea.
This doesn't even require touching the source-code but can entirely be resolved by modding. There even is a parameter for beeing partially sumberged in water.

Image
Image

In the Mechs files you have to change the following things:
1. Change the value "field" to "Air".
2. Add "walkUnterwater="1"" to the model type.

Code: Select all

<unit category="Mech" cost="64" field="Air" icon="Units/MechIcon" movement="2"
		power="8" sight="2" tier="0" upkeep="4" technology="Mech0">
	<model type="Mech" material="Units/Mech0" mesh="Units/Mech0" walkUnterwater="1"/>
The cool thing everything else works as before. I had feared they'd act like planes but that's tied to the category but not the "field". They truly act like amphibious units.

I can ask what Rok thinks of this anyways.

HusariaPL
Private First Class - Wehrmacht Inf
Private First Class - Wehrmacht Inf
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 6:27 pm

Re: Bugs, questions and suggestions!

Post by HusariaPL » Thu Jul 02, 2015 12:54 am

They actually look better than I would've expected. It would certainly make surrounding your city with a single coast tile ring a less of a deterrent for mech heavy factions.
Just a quick question the way you currently made those mechs, I would assume they can walk through ocean tiles as well since they are tied to the 'air' field? Also, does that mean they cannot capture cities? Or is that also tied to the class.

When i think about it the other mechs might create more of a problem since they shorter than Goliath, however i assume that issue can be easily solved by not submerging them as much.

Regardless, fantastic job for checking my suggestion so quickly

Xilmi
Pandora Community Developer
Pandora Community Developer
Posts: 521
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 3:21 pm

Re: Bugs, questions and suggestions!

Post by Xilmi » Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:20 am

HusariaPL wrote:It would certainly make surrounding your city with a single coast tile ring a less of a deterrent for mech heavy factions.
What? Lol! The creativity of players always amazes me!
A city like that would be unconquerable without using drop-pods. Even for other human players that would be a pain in the ass. Can't reach it by ships and can't reach it by land-units. This would make Amphibious units a necessity. And the AI would need a way to recognize it and then build the Amphibious-units preferably. Since there already is an algorithm that figures out if a city is unreachable by sea-units despite having access to water, I'd need another one. Oh and then there's the idea of leaving one tile to trick it and have them use transports that you all can sink. ^^

An easier way to fix it would be a rule-change that disallows turning tiles into ocean. ^^ (The only way I ever used the terraforming-tech was to turn hills into mountains. I also saw the potential to create an Island for a city... but making a ring of water around a city so it cannot be captured just was new to me!)
HusariaPL wrote: Just a quick question the way you currently made those mechs, I would assume they can walk through ocean tiles as well since they are tied to the 'air' field?
Yes, allowing them to only walk throug coastal-water would require some programming. But I'd rather have them walk through ocean too. Let's just assume Pandoras water is 50 meters deep everywhere due to geothermal reasons on that planet. ^^
HusariaPL wrote: Also, does that mean they cannot capture cities? Or is that also tied to the class.
It's linked to the class. They still have their attack-bonus on plains, a malus on mountains, need more movement for rough terrain, can flank, be flanked and capture cities.
I found out about using the air-field by looking at the amphibious former and the submerging by looking at the Krakens.
HusariaPL wrote: When i think about it the other mechs might create more of a problem since they shorter than Goliath, however i assume that issue can be easily solved by not submerging them as much.
No, they might have 4 legs but they still are very high. It might look a little weird though as they are so big that their legs are almost in the neighbouring tiles.

ErissN6
Master Sergeant - Bf 109E
Master Sergeant - Bf 109E
Posts: 476
Joined: Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:34 pm
Location: France

Re: Bugs, questions and suggestions!

Post by ErissN6 » Thu Jul 02, 2015 11:59 am

Xilmi wrote: allowing them to only walk throug coastal-water would require some programming. But I'd rather have them walk through ocean too. Let's just assume Pandoras water is 50 meters deep everywhere due to geothermal reasons on that planet. ^^
As I already said, Pandora seems rather a moon than a planet, if we play in Normal map. That's why I always play in Huge.
If seas are not deep, it will remove further feeling of being on a planet.
So, please, if you could add some programming again...

SephiRok
Proxy Studios
Proxy Studios
Posts: 1012
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:19 am
Contact:

Re: Bugs, questions and suggestions!

Post by SephiRok » Thu Jul 02, 2015 5:35 pm

The shots do look pretty damn awesome, but I do share ERISS's concerns about them walking around the oceans. Additionally, it might also make them too powerful.
Rok Breulj
Designer and Programmer
Proxy Studios

Xilmi
Pandora Community Developer
Pandora Community Developer
Posts: 521
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 3:21 pm

Re: Bugs, questions and suggestions!

Post by Xilmi » Thu Jul 02, 2015 10:14 pm

They could receive a -25% malus for fighting in water.
I'll look into what it takes to make it coastal-only.

HusariaPL
Private First Class - Wehrmacht Inf
Private First Class - Wehrmacht Inf
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 6:27 pm

Re: Bugs, questions and suggestions!

Post by HusariaPL » Thu Jul 02, 2015 11:20 pm

Xilmi wrote:They could receive a -25% malus for fighting in water.
I'll look into what it takes to make it coastal-only.
This may be a silly idea but i will share it nevertheless, how about instead of decreasing their power make them move slower in water? I realize that they would have 1 movement unless equipped with a certain device. This would mean that you have to either attack or move when your mech is on coastal tile.

However I assume that it will be harder to do that than to just decrease their power (when in water) but realistically speaking it would make sense since water is more dense than air making movement more demending. Either way, just having them walk through water is great, edited the file myself and I am certainly having fun with them.

Xilmi
Pandora Community Developer
Pandora Community Developer
Posts: 521
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 3:21 pm

Re: Bugs, questions and suggestions!

Post by Xilmi » Fri Jul 03, 2015 8:03 am

Your suggestion makes absolute sense to me.
But I'd say: How about both at once?
Mountains, for example do both aswell: Impair their movement and reduce their combat-strentgh.
I'm actually quite confident that this wouldn't even need code-changes and can be done by modding aswell.

Post Reply

Return to “Pandora - First Contact”