Reload should be not allowed in this game

PSP/DS/PC/MAC : WWII turn based grand strategy game

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zzmzmy
Lance Corporal - Panzer IA
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Reload should be not allowed in this game

Post by zzmzmy » Thu Oct 23, 2014 2:27 am

Why is this game does not prohibit the reload? I know some people use the reload to get great advantage, this is unfair very much for those who do not use reload things . Many other Games in PBEM mode, are using some method such as writing serial numbers into turn_file to prevent reload (This is not difficult). If you reload , there will be cheat tips. I very much hope this can be resolved, otherwise it becomes a simulation many times game, because in this game, combat results are too random. And you can get the information of opponent army without price.
In now a game, my opponent use his STR attack my resource where my FTR stay and always get 0:0 air battle result. It is ridiculous but it could happen because he can reload Dozens of times.

supermax
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Re: Reload should be not allowed in this game

Post by supermax » Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:54 am

I couldn't agree more.

There is more than 1 game that I stopped because it was blatant.

Some players are simply invincible , and never hit subs, never get a bad attack turn, always kill and destroy enemy troops , (you never have units that survives at 1 or 2 steps when you open your turn) , etc. , and all. Its quite obvious and easy to spot when you think about it.

This one time I stopped a game because the axis player was able to take Leningrad in 1 turn, while fully entrenched. My unit was guard, with a defensive general, and max entrenchment. Well the player was still able to storm the city in 1 turn :)

There's a few names that come to mind... "Very good" players" :) ...

And as a conclusion, everytime someone post on the reload thing it is very interesting to see that not many players actually comment. Guilty feeling?

I would say you just need to find people that don't reload.

Peter Stauffenberg
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Re: Reload should be not allowed in this game

Post by Peter Stauffenberg » Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:05 pm

You can't prevent reloads unless you add GS to a game ladder system. Since PBEM means you transfer save games via email you need to trust your opponent. As Supermax say you quickly find out whether you play against an opponent who reloads his turns or not. If you suspect it then you just don't play against such a player anymore.

What prevents a player from deleting the save game after a bad run and place the old save game from the email and try again?

With a game ladder system you get the saved game from the ladder itself and it's stored there automatically. So you can't get an old save file back once you have begun the turn.

Making a game ladder requires quite a bit of development work. I think it's better to spend that time on a new game like CEAW 2 instead of working even more on GS. GS has reached its end of the development cycle and need a more modern game engine to support what we want to add. E. g. support for higher resolution and diplomatic choices.

The game engine used for Commander The Great War could be suitable for CEAW 2, if it's going to be made. Let's hope it will get game ladder support.

Morris
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Re: Reload should be not allowed in this game

Post by Morris » Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:42 pm

The best choice to solve this problem is to play hotseat face to face ! :)

Morris
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Re: Reload should be not allowed in this game

Post by Morris » Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:46 pm

supermax wrote: This one time I stopped a game because the axis player was able to take Leningrad in 1 turn, while fully entrenched. My unit was guard, with a defensive general, and max entrenchment. Well the player was still able to storm the city in 1 turn :)
How many times did this guy reload for this ???? hundreds of time ?? :lol:

mamahuhu
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Re: Reload should be not allowed in this game

Post by mamahuhu » Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:53 pm

Let's hope CEAW2 will get game ladder support and early completion.

zzmzmy
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Re: Reload should be not allowed in this game

Post by zzmzmy » Thu Oct 23, 2014 2:15 pm

I know a game names "Advanced Tactics Gold ". It's PBEM is downline and can give you many cheating message such as if you opponet have open the same turn twice or change another computer to play game. I think they set some serial numbers into the save file and some record files. When I play that game I dare not change computer or open same turn twice , because so that my opponet will know all of that.

zzmzmy
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Re: Reload should be not allowed in this game

Post by zzmzmy » Thu Oct 23, 2014 2:20 pm

Stauffenberg wrote:You can't prevent reloads unless you add GS to a game ladder system. Since PBEM means you transfer save games via email you need to trust your opponent. As Supermax say you quickly find out whether you play against an opponent who reloads his turns or not. If you suspect it then you just don't play against such a player anymore.

What prevents a player from deleting the save game after a bad run and place the old save game from the email and try again?

With a game ladder system you get the saved game from the ladder itself and it's stored there automatically. So you can't get an old save file back once you have begun the turn.

Making a game ladder requires quite a bit of development work. I think it's better to spend that time on a new game like CEAW 2 instead of working even more on GS. GS has reached its end of the development cycle and need a more modern game engine to support what we want to add. E. g. support for higher resolution and diplomatic choices.

The game engine used for Commander The Great War could be suitable for CEAW 2, if it's going to be made. Let's hope it will get game ladder support.
This problem could be solved without ladder system. Just save some serieal numbers about which computer and open times into the save file and game file. Some other games made it.

zzmzmy
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Re: Reload should be not allowed in this game

Post by zzmzmy » Thu Oct 23, 2014 2:23 pm

mamahuhu wrote:Let's hope CEAW2 will get game ladder support and early completion.
Yes , this problem need be solved in CEAW2.

GogTheMild
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Re: Reload should be not allowed in this game

Post by GogTheMild » Thu Oct 23, 2014 3:02 pm

This is a topic which has been much discussed. As Stauffenberg says, the only fix would be a rewrite from scratch; essentially a new game. The sooner it happens, the better for all of our peace of minds.

Spotting reloading is probably a bit more difficult than it may first appear, because of the random nature of combat outcomes. For example, in my AAR against Kragdob, when invading Holland a GAR took four steps off my Strat; if it had taken two I would have been astonished. This is the sort of extreme result which in other circumstances might have you thinking "That has to be a reload". Richardsd has some amusing stories of outcomes which look like reloads. (I have, twice, had outcomes which were so embarrassingly good that I reloaded in order to get worse ones.)
We sleep peaceably in our beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on our behalf.

zzmzmy
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Re: Reload should be not allowed in this game

Post by zzmzmy » Thu Oct 23, 2014 3:27 pm

HI GogTheMild , I admitted I reload several times in the game now between us. I just learn how to reload recently . I can't help doing this cause it can bring good result . Your zhukov rest 9 turns because I reload else he will only rest 6 turns.

GogTheMild
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Re: Reload should be not allowed in this game

Post by GogTheMild » Thu Oct 23, 2014 4:40 pm

Ha ha. Good of you to own up, especially so publically. I did wonder a couple of times. I think (EDIT: I know perfectly well) that in my first two or three games I reloaded occasionally. It is so tempting sometimes isn't it? I think that I have been a reformed character for over a year now.

Both your strategy and your tactics seem very good, so I am not sure that you need to reload.
We sleep peaceably in our beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on our behalf.

Peter Stauffenberg
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Re: Reload should be not allowed in this game

Post by Peter Stauffenberg » Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:10 pm

zzmzmy wrote:I know a game names "Advanced Tactics Gold ". It's PBEM is downline and can give you many cheating message such as if you opponet have open the same turn twice or change another computer to play game. I think they set some serial numbers into the save file and some record files. When I play that game I dare not change computer or open same turn twice , because so that my opponet will know all of that.
This work work because you can always put back the save game you got from your opponent. It will be the same every time since it's untouched by your playing turn.

The only way I can see trying to spot reloads would be to add into a player's registry important save game data. The problem with this is that you need to encrypt the data for the players not to find them and you need separate registry entries per save game a player makes. Over time you could add a lot of "garbage" into a player's PC. I'm not sure players want games tampering with their registry. If it's not done properly it could end up corrupting your PC.

Or you could try to save some temp files somewhere on the player's PC that he doesn't know about. Again you have introduced something that players really don't like. Players want to have software they know the behavior of. If we tell where the game registration files are stored then these can be deleted and you're back to square one.

Peter Stauffenberg
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Re: Reload should be not allowed in this game

Post by Peter Stauffenberg » Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:20 pm

Reloading is probably more useful early in the game when you have fewer battles to play out. If you do e. g. 30+ attacks in a turn then it's hard to reload and get great results everywhere. Reloading then could just be used to ensure decent results in critical fights (like taking a fortress or sinking a CV).

I think people soon realize they are facing an opponent who reloads his turns. A reloading player rarely gets a bloody nose in battles. He always manages to finish off enemy units, especially the expensive ones like tanks, fighters and CV's. Having said that I don't think all the reloading in the world could save an average player against an elite player.

E. g. you can't reload to recover from a strategic mistake. If you're taken by surprise from an attack then your units can't suddenly teleport to the front line to defend. If you have a poor strategy you can't make it a good one by reloading.

People who reload will eventually get caught and run out of players to play against. If you win by reloading against a good opponent, then how good does that victory really feel?

historysearch
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Re: Reload should be not allowed in this game

Post by historysearch » Fri Oct 24, 2014 2:39 am

The ability to reload is the reason this game will only be a good game instead of a great game. I suspect some players only reload once in a game, but at some critical point such as dropping airborne units to attack a capital. The outcome of one attack can change the whole game.

richardsd
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Re: Reload should be not allowed in this game

Post by richardsd » Fri Oct 24, 2014 5:58 am

its unlikely one attack will change the outcome of a game - although I have lost a game with a capital surviving at one step on the last turn :-(

mupawa
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Re: Reload should be not allowed in this game

Post by mupawa » Wed Oct 29, 2014 1:25 am

yeah, I agree. One caveat. reloads if you inform your opponent. Like if you devcalre war on Belgium and meant to only declare war on holland

pk867
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Re: Reload should be not allowed in this game

Post by pk867 » Wed Oct 29, 2014 3:18 pm

The PBEM++ server saves the game on the server and not on the players computer. If I understand correctly. It also keeps track of the number of downloads.

So the game file is saved on the server and not on the player's computer.

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