Ah, a typical Mike statementstalins_organ wrote:They are?nikgaukroger wrote:However, there is no evidence of Scots using deep formations as the Swiss did. As Pikes in AoW (like most other ancients/medieval rules) are designed to fight in formations much deeper than other troops
When did that happen? Alex usualy deployed his 8 deep - just like hoplites.
If you can convicence Duncan of that I'll be impressed. IIRC the only stated case is Issos where they were expanding from a deeper (32 rank IIRC) formation to fill a plain and this is quite possibly atypical. The Hellenistic manuals say 16 deep and I seem to recall something about the file being called the dekas which may suggest 10 deep was used originally by Phillip.
Apologies, used "pike" a bit loosly there as I meant pikemen the troop type and assumed the context made it clear.stalins_organ wrote:
Swiss fought deep, but I've not seen anything that says that the pikes were designed for that - they started fighting deep with halberds after all, and went to pikes 'cos the halberds were supposedly outreached by hte lances of dismounted knights!
Later renaissance ... by which I assume you mean C17th as I believe earlier formations were consistently deeper. So hardly a useful model I would suggest.stalins_organ wrote:
Later renaissance pikes fought as shallow as 2-3 ranks.
Sure many pikes DID fight deep, but I think it's a fairly tall tale to be spreading that that is what they were designed for!