Field of Glory goes 2.0 !

General discussion forum for anything related to Field of Glory Ancients & Medieval.

Moderators: hammy, Slitherine Core, Field of Glory Design, Field of Glory Moderators

spike
Sergeant Major - Armoured Train
Sergeant Major - Armoured Train
Posts: 554
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 4:12 pm
Location: Category 2

Re: Field of Glory goes 2.0 !

Post by spike » Fri Sep 21, 2012 2:17 pm

mbsparta wrote:I don't play FoW ... But they are certainly doing something right. I'm not sure if it is marketing; publishing; up-dating; or what ... But something they do is working. Comic book or not I wonder if their buisness model might be something Slitherene can learn from??

Mike B
I bloody-well hope not, the BF model is the same as games "workhouse" model
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin

A fool and his money are soon elected.
Will Rogers

Pitty the fool!!!
Mr T

madaxeman
Major-General - Jagdtiger
Major-General - Jagdtiger
Posts: 2963
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 5:15 am
Location: London, UK
Contact:

Re: Field of Glory goes 2.0 !

Post by madaxeman » Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:41 pm

mbsparta wrote:I don't play FoW ... But they are certainly doing something right. I'm not sure if it is marketing; publishing; up-dating; or what ... But something they do is working.
Selling figures as well as the rules.
http://www.madaxeman.com
Become a fan of Madaxeman on Facebook at Madaxeman.com's Facebook Page.

hazelbark
General - Carrier
General - Carrier
Posts: 4957
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 9:53 pm
Location: Capital of the World !!

Re: Field of Glory goes 2.0 !

Post by hazelbark » Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:30 pm

mbsparta wrote:at the big US conventions are very well attended, they have amazing tables to play on and many of the armies are beautifully presented. That synergy brings in new players. I just don't see that in the ancient gaming community. I love Madaxeman's battle reports. But the table top terrain that I see in his photos is .... generally speaking, horrible. I wonder what is more important; a hill that looks like a hill, or a felt hill with geometric lines to donate the "crest"?
Well particulary at the US conventions the i-95 group in particular invest a lot of money in tables/terrain which is great. I've seen plenty of other FOW game that have weak terrain.

I wish we tried for more in Anicents and FOG. the dumb crest stuff and wanting flat terrain is a holdover from the DBx where geometry was so critical. Its not in FOG. We really should strive for better. But every time i say that some one always complains. Maybe I will just create my own perrsonal award for cool terrain and hand out starbucks gift cards or something. That might be the answer just random people walking up and giving an award for cool terrain.

IanB3406
Staff Sergeant - Kavallerie
Staff Sergeant - Kavallerie
Posts: 340
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 6:06 am

Re: Field of Glory goes 2.0 !

Post by IanB3406 » Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:07 am

Terrain in fow is preset. For some reason it's objected to by most fog players.

Jilu
Sergeant Major - Armoured Train
Sergeant Major - Armoured Train
Posts: 560
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:14 pm

Re: Field of Glory goes 2.0 !

Post by Jilu » Tue Sep 25, 2012 7:46 am

hazelbark wrote:
mbsparta wrote:at the big US conventions are very well attended, they have amazing tables to play on and many of the armies are beautifully presented. That synergy brings in new players. I just don't see that in the ancient gaming community. I love Madaxeman's battle reports. But the table top terrain that I see in his photos is .... generally speaking, horrible. I wonder what is more important; a hill that looks like a hill, or a felt hill with geometric lines to donate the "crest"?
Well particulary at the US conventions the i-95 group in particular invest a lot of money in tables/terrain which is great. I've seen plenty of other FOW game that have weak terrain.

I wish we tried for more in Anicents and FOG. the dumb crest stuff and wanting flat terrain is a holdover from the DBx where geometry was so critical. Its not in FOG. We really should strive for better. But every time i say that some one always complains. Maybe I will just create my own perrsonal award for cool terrain and hand out starbucks gift cards or something. That might be the answer just random people walking up and giving an award for cool terrain.
And hills...do not always have crestlines.....in real life

madaxeman
Major-General - Jagdtiger
Major-General - Jagdtiger
Posts: 2963
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 5:15 am
Location: London, UK
Contact:

Re: Field of Glory goes 2.0 !

Post by madaxeman » Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:16 am

IanB3406 wrote:Terrain in fow is preset. For some reason it's objected to by most fog players.
In FOW a lot of the terrain is literally "as depicted" for lines of sight and the rest of the rules, whereas in FoG almost all terrain has only an area effect. There are also far more buildings in FOW, which tend to be where the nicest stuff is seen
http://www.madaxeman.com
Become a fan of Madaxeman on Facebook at Madaxeman.com's Facebook Page.

hazelbark
General - Carrier
General - Carrier
Posts: 4957
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 9:53 pm
Location: Capital of the World !!

Re: Field of Glory goes 2.0 !

Post by hazelbark » Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:21 pm

IanB3406 wrote:Terrain in fow is preset. For some reason it's objected to by most fog players.
I think Iverson did a preset terrain event in NE at one point and it go positive views.

The problem with preset is you have to warn people in advance some parameters. I.E.
1) There will be NO barren Steppe
2) There will be no big chunks in the center
3) There will usually be one somewhat terrain laden flank.

So people who need steppe or lots of terrain for their army are forewarned.

Jilu
Sergeant Major - Armoured Train
Sergeant Major - Armoured Train
Posts: 560
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:14 pm

Re: Field of Glory goes 2.0 !

Post by Jilu » Tue Sep 25, 2012 7:23 pm

why not one or two Steppe tables?

hazelbark
General - Carrier
General - Carrier
Posts: 4957
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 9:53 pm
Location: Capital of the World !!

Re: Field of Glory goes 2.0 !

Post by hazelbark » Wed Sep 26, 2012 1:37 am

Jilu wrote:why not one or two Steppe tables?
Well it depends on the size of the comp etc.
It also depends on what you want to encourage.
Personally its just tiring and unfun to play on billiard table. I don't accept it as commonly historical. It is an exercise in discipline vs luck. The biggest issue is whatever you tell people, they should be told so they can take appropriate armies.

kevinj
Major-General - Tiger I
Major-General - Tiger I
Posts: 2379
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:21 am
Location: Derbyshire, UK

Re: Field of Glory goes 2.0 !

Post by kevinj » Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:04 am

I agree that the FOW tables do tend to look great with their preset terrain. However, I've never played the game so I have no idea what effect it actually has.

What I do recall are the days when Ancient tournaments used preset terrain in the days before DBM. Terrain tended to be either bland or "interesting". "Interesting" setups that I recall include one side's deployment area being on an island connected to the rest of the table by a 2 base wide causeway. Not to mention lateral rivers, massive central woods and all kinds of abominations that were probably really fun to lay out but totally killed the game for one or both players.

As an organiser there was the hassle of not only setting all of this out and clearing it away at the end, but also keeping track of who'd played on what tables to avoid anyone being perceived as gaining an advantage. As a player you ran the risk of being on a table that either gave you or your opponent a significant advantage, or actually suited neither of you.

My opinion at the time, and still today, is that I may lose a game because the terrain hasn't suited my army, but there are steps I can take to increase my chances of influencing it as I want it. It may not come out how I'd like, but that's part of the game. At least it's down to my opponent and I how these things work out, rather than something inflicted upon me by the tournament organisers.

Mehrunes
Master Sergeant - U-boat
Master Sergeant - U-boat
Posts: 517
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:21 pm

Re: Field of Glory goes 2.0 !

Post by Mehrunes » Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:09 pm

Any news on the paper version?

Robert241167
Lieutenant Colonel - Elite Panther D
Lieutenant Colonel - Elite Panther D
Posts: 1368
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 5:03 pm
Location: Leeds

Re: Field of Glory goes 2.0 !

Post by Robert241167 » Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:30 pm

See this announcement:

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=37814

Rob

Strategos69
Lieutenant Colonel - Elite Panther D
Lieutenant Colonel - Elite Panther D
Posts: 1375
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 10:53 pm
Location: Alcalá de Henares, Spain

Re: Field of Glory goes 2.0 !

Post by Strategos69 » Fri Sep 28, 2012 9:21 am

spike wrote:
mbsparta wrote:I don't play FoW ... But they are certainly doing something right. I'm not sure if it is marketing; publishing; up-dating; or what ... But something they do is working. Comic book or not I wonder if their buisness model might be something Slitherene can learn from??

Mike B
I bloody-well hope not, the BF model is the same as games "workhouse" model
Well, they gave for FREE their new 3.0 version of the rules (more than 200 pages in color) to all players who had bought the big 2.0 book. To me that is not the same policy. Indeed, the business in wargaming is on miniatures clearly. All wargames players pay for miniatures. In a club or group of friends less people buy and read the rules. Rules are a one time purchase: miniatures are potentially non stop source of sales (once you have an army, you move for a different one). Indeed their army lists tell you how to paint your army, tell you a little bit of history and provide what you need to play. In my opinion they are clearly the model to copy in historical wargaming. That is why they are so successful.

philqw78
Chief of Staff - Elite Maus
Chief of Staff - Elite Maus
Posts: 8696
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 11:31 am
Location: Manchester

Re: Field of Glory goes 2.0 !

Post by philqw78 » Fri Sep 28, 2012 10:58 am

Strategos69 wrote:Well, they gave for FREE their new 3.0 version of the rules (more than 200 pages in color) to all players who had bought the big 2.0 book. To me that is not the same policy. Indeed, the business in wargaming is on miniatures clearly. All wargames players pay for miniatures. In a club or group of friends less people buy and read the rules. Rules are a one time purchase: miniatures are potentially non stop source of sales (once you have an army, you move for a different one). Indeed their army lists tell you how to paint your army, tell you a little bit of history and provide what you need to play. In my opinion they are clearly the model to copy in historical wargaming. That is why they are so successful.
Yeah, new lists every other month, including changes to the rules, and new figures to buy to match the list, and if you don't use their figures you can't play at competitions. Also the new free rule book is tiny.
phil
putting the arg into argumentative

Strategos69
Lieutenant Colonel - Elite Panther D
Lieutenant Colonel - Elite Panther D
Posts: 1375
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 10:53 pm
Location: Alcalá de Henares, Spain

Re: Field of Glory goes 2.0 !

Post by Strategos69 » Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:51 pm

philqw78 wrote: Yeah, new lists every other month, including changes to the rules, and new figures to buy to match the list, and if you don't use their figures you can't play at competitions. Also the new free rule book is tiny.
In my opinion new lists (most of them are offered for free on the Internet) every month make the hobby alife and gaming experience more interesting (you don't feel the game is stuck in time). As it is a game based on scenarios I find also ok having new rules for scenarios if those suit better what they want to depict. If you like them, play them; if you don't, don't. If you want to play their tournaments, follow their rules (I think they set like 50% of BF miniatures: that is the last I heard); if you don't; do not.

And for the rulebook it has been one of the nicest surprises I have had in wargames lately. It is a half a page long (B5), which in my opinion makes it easier to read. It is free and has 300 pages in full color! There will be a hardback version, but that will be sold. To me that is a good example of good business in historical wargaming. The fact that there are new lists at every time make it better as the game has updates (how nice would have it been to have had a campaign book).

And now they are selling an introductory box with two half armies for the ridiculous price of 60€. Sorry for the off-topic, but really, in historical wargaming these are the guys that are really getting it right. i hope that Slitherine, with the new move onto all digital, might offer something similar to their players at least regarding list updates, regular campaigns, etc.

ShrubMiK
1st Lieutenant - 15 cm sFH 18
1st Lieutenant - 15 cm sFH 18
Posts: 824
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 8:37 am

Re: Field of Glory goes 2.0 !

Post by ShrubMiK » Sat Sep 29, 2012 12:36 pm

Is the period not part of the difference?

Ancients isn't exactly something that your average person rounded up off the street knows anything about, cares about, or finds particularly exciting. King Tigers and Nebelwerfers, however, that's cool...

Update: Heh! Just noticed the irony of our avatars...

ethan
Lieutenant Colonel - Panther D
Lieutenant Colonel - Panther D
Posts: 1284
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2007 9:40 pm

Re: Field of Glory goes 2.0 !

Post by ethan » Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:07 pm

Jilu wrote:why not one or two Steppe tables?
I think it is quite important to give some clear guidance and there is a lot of value in doing "themed" tables if you will. If you do "well there will be 1-2 steppe tables, 1-2 heavy terrain tables and a bunch of sort of moderate ones" you really haven't told anyone anything. People will tend to just take moderate armies and then the steppe players will complain they didn't get steppe tables, the terrain armies complain they didn't get terrain, etc.

I see the advantage of giving clear directions and a "twist" on the pre-set terrain as actually being a pretty good theme mechanic.

"This is a Roman theme - all the tables will be pretty legionary friendly, this is what that means..." is a great way of cutting down on the counter-programming that IMO plagues theme comps.

Or this is a steppe theme, all the tables are pretty steppe-like, don't whine when you show up with heavy infantry and have no plan for chasing LH around.

peterrjohnston
Field of Glory Moderator
Field of Glory Moderator
Posts: 1506
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2007 11:51 am

Re: Field of Glory goes 2.0 !

Post by peterrjohnston » Mon Oct 01, 2012 4:28 pm

ethan wrote:
"This is a Roman theme - all the tables will be pretty legionary friendly, this is what that means..." is a great way of cutting down on the counter-programming that IMO plagues theme comps.

Or this is a steppe theme, all the tables are pretty steppe-like, don't whine when you show up with heavy infantry and have no plan for chasing LH around.
One alternative is pre-design the terrain and give out table maps before the competition (obviously with random table allocation, or random map allocation). I have a vague memory of that happening at a few meetings way back in the days of WRG 5th/6th.

ValentinianVictor
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 251/1
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz  251/1
Posts: 136
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:45 am

Re: Field of Glory goes 2.0 !

Post by ValentinianVictor » Mon Oct 01, 2012 6:46 pm

I know some people dont like pre-set terrain on the tables but it has one huge advantage, it really does speed up laying lead on the table and playing a game. It might help with the complaints of there being two many draws if people have just that little bit long to play for the win.

IanB3406
Staff Sergeant - Kavallerie
Staff Sergeant - Kavallerie
Posts: 340
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 6:06 am

Re: Field of Glory goes 2.0 !

Post by IanB3406 » Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:06 am

I have run one tournament with preset terrain, maybe one open table, one crowded and most of the rest fairly moderate. I had a thought to do it again and pre-announce what battle field terrain would be modeled, say picking tables form the 40 or so battles listed in Phil Sabins book Lost Battles.

Post Reply

Return to “Field of Glory : Ancient & Medieval Era 3000 BC-1500 AD : General Discussion”