First v2 games

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hazelbark
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First v2 games

Post by hazelbark » Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:47 am

Had two games today.

The change to limit generals moving too many units in a BL is profound. Very easy to set up a deployment where you can't double move in a meaningful way. Like it. But it is a big change.
1) WIll need to spend more points on commanders. An FC or IC is practically a must. First time ever I recall running a 2 FC army.
2) Deployment matters more. A touch worried beginners will deploy and be FUBAR on turn 1.

The double POA limit on armour. Had the odd situation where my armoured lancer fighting in two directions versus a Cataphract was not double POA'd. But generally approve of it. A lot more ramifications to this than I think we realize.

-2 turn and move much harder.

Alll in good.

Althought the elephant BG than ran right over my 12-base pike unit was a bit troubling. :shock:

Scrumpy
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Re: First v2 games

Post by Scrumpy » Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:36 am

Found it interesting, the elephants got lucky, but having the extra dice at impact certainly helped. I also liked the way protected Cv managed to last longer when faced by Lh bow.

grahambriggs
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Re: First v2 games

Post by grahambriggs » Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:49 am

hazelbark wrote:Had two games today.

The change to limit generals moving too many units in a BL is profound. Very easy to set up a deployment where you can't double move in a meaningful way. Like it. But it is a big change.
1) WIll need to spend more points on commanders. An FC or IC is practically a must. First time ever I recall running a 2 FC army.
2) Deployment matters more. A touch worried beginners will deploy and be FUBAR on turn 1.
That might be the case. And it might make flank marches with FCs less common if the FCs are needed on table. the other trend I've seen is bigger BGs so that the generals can move more bases. On the other hand, do you want more points invested in generals? Deploying at 12MU and only moving some of the line forward twice might be good enough.

Scrumpy
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Re: First v2 games

Post by Scrumpy » Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:21 am

I used Kushan against Dan, and had 2 BG of elephants shielded by some LF bow, I workd out that only having 4 TC's meant I could not move all 3 units together.

I noticed that Dan's FC was able to move his Cv & Lh quickly to try to work my flank, luckily my Cats managed to reploy reasonably quick enough to be able to counter the threats, although it took 3 of my 4 Generals to get troops to where I had a chance of delaying him. On the other wing I managed to gang up on some MF OS & shoot them down to fragged, before some Lh routed them in a charge.

I got very lucky in the middle when the elephants faced with Pk to their front, and a Pk block about to flank them went in to buy some time, and managed to stomp his Pk, not a tactic I would suggest works everytime :D

Vespasian28
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Re: First v2 games

Post by Vespasian28 » Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:23 pm

Althought the elephant BG than ran right over my 12-base pike unit was a bit troubling.


Troubling for you but damned lucky for your opponent. Some other posts have been saying Elephants are still underpowered which I disagree with and your experience was unlucky. I will only worry when it happens on a regular basis even though I do have Classical Indians champing at the bit to get out of the box :)

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Re: First v2 games

Post by grahambriggs » Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:26 pm

Vespasian28 wrote:
Althought the elephant BG than ran right over my 12-base pike unit was a bit troubling.


Troubling for you but damned lucky for your opponent. Some other posts have been saying Elephants are still underpowered which I disagree with and your experience was unlucky. I will only worry when it happens on a regular basis even though I do have Classical Indians champing at the bit to get out of the box :)
It'll be interesting to see how the use of elephants develops. They need a degree of skill to handle, as they're a bit unmanouverable. And it they do really need to be in the right place as a base loss breaks them.

I suspect against mounted they'll be lethal most of the time - POA up and twice as many dice at impact looks pretty terminal for the horsies, who'll then test morale on a big minus.

Against solid foot they're usually on an equal factor (though down against deep pike). They should win, but 6 average dice needing 4's have an awful lot of scatter. So all sorts of results are quite possible and it might be that a big elephant army sees a miture of disaster and great success.

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Re: First v2 games

Post by Scrumpy » Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:29 pm

Thorughly loved the elephants, and I have a host of pachyderms waiting to burst loose upon the table. As Graham says, win some lose some with them, either way it will be fun, a lot more than in v1.

hazelbark
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Re: First v2 games

Post by hazelbark » Fri Jan 25, 2013 4:10 pm

Vespasian28 wrote: Troubling for you but damned lucky for your opponent. Some other posts have been saying Elephants are still underpowered which I disagree with and your experience was unlucky. I will only worry when it happens on a regular basis even though I do have Classical Indians champing at the bit to get out of the box :)
Well I had found a version 1 Maurya that was quite fun. Swarming bow, elephants and heavy chariots.

So I think they can come out of the box in version 2. Absolutely. I don't know if they will be tournament tigers, but not laughable.

gozerius
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Re: First v2 games

Post by gozerius » Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:56 pm

I've used Classical Indian in V 1 and was satisfied with the results. Looking forward to trying them in V 2.0.
One big improvement to my game play is I've made magnetized movement trays in all the standard BG formation sizes. This will speed up movement, meaning that I can play skirmish troops without my opponent tapping his feet and glowering at me while I fiddle with all that LF and LH that he charged last turn.
Thracians
Classical Indians
Medieval
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Burgundians
In progress - Later Hungarians, Grand Moravians

mbsparta
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Re: First v2 games

Post by mbsparta » Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:05 am

Speaking of first V2 games ... We played LRR vs Gallic this past Saturday. We ended up with just under 700 points per side and fought (28mm) on a 6x4 table. We use 1"= 1MU.

1. We do not use the terrain set-up portion of the game so I cannot comment on that. We take turns setting up a table based on the terrain we would expect to find our battle in ... In this case some hilly, slightly wooded Gallic land with a small river on a flank. It works for us ... and is fast. The change in deployment to 12" was nice as it allowed a little more space for a 2nd line of troops and the camps.

2. The biggest changes for us were to movement, shooting, impact and cohesion tests. The movement rules add some complexity to the game, but the chart lay-out makes it easy to do. For our game, V2 movement had little impact in the game. Shooting ... I was trying to explain why the shooting ranges were changed and I could not offer a good explanation to my opponent, who does not have V2 yet. We can live with the changes, but they make no sense. Impact did make a big difference in the game. Impact foot, winning at impact, can give your opponent a cohesion test ulcer. We liked the V2 impact changes, even though I was opposed to it during play-testing. My bad .... The change in armor POA was also significant with our troops being armored Legionaries vs. Protected Warriors.

3. The QRS in the back of the book is great and layed out very well. I cut it out of my book and laminated it. Can't do that with your downloads .... haha

We played the game in about 3 hours counting set up ... stopping to chat ... and a couple of McDonalds' breakfast-induced potty breaks. It was a close game, whoever lost the next point would lose. And of course the Romans were defeated when my lackluster Numidian LH could not run fast enough, were caught and fragged.

Mike B

Robert241167
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Re: First v2 games

Post by Robert241167 » Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:11 am

Hi Mike

I think the shooting ranges were changed so that skirmishers couldn't lead a near totally risk-free life.

Before LH versus LH just inside 4 MU's was a 36-1 chance to catch on an evade.

Now inside 3 MU's it's increased 3-fold to a 12-1 chance.

An improvement I feel.

Rob

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Re: First v2 games

Post by rbodleyscott » Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:35 am

Robert241167 wrote:Hi Mike

I think the shooting ranges were changed so that skirmishers couldn't lead a near totally risk-free life.

Before LH versus LH just inside 4 MU's was a 36-1 chance to catch on an evade.

Now inside 3 MU's it's increased 3-fold to a 12-1 chance.

An improvement I feel.

Rob
Also, so that skirmishers can't stay out of charge reach of HF. Effectively this halves their shooting against a solid line of HF because the HF can charge them in each of their turns.

Vespasian28
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Re: First v2 games

Post by Vespasian28 » Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:00 pm

The QRS in the back of the book is great and layed out very well. I cut it out of my book and laminated it. Can't do that with your downloads .... haha
I am loathe to cut the book up and I possess the computing skills of a C12th monk. Is anyone out there working on a downloadable QRS for V2? Please!!!!

batesmotel
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Re: First v2 games

Post by batesmotel » Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:33 pm

There are versions up on the FoG yahoo group <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Field-of-Glory/>.

Chris
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Vespasian28
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Re: First v2 games

Post by Vespasian28 » Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:32 pm

Thanks Chris

gozerius
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Re: First v2 games

Post by gozerius » Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:21 am

Fought a solo game: Later Low Countries vs Later Medieval Feudal Germans - 800 points on 4x6
Low Countries IC, TC, TC, 2 BG 4 Knights sup, Lance/sword, 3 bgs 10 HF offensive spear, 1 BG 6 MF crossbow, 1 BG 6 MF longbow/sword, 2 BG 4 HF Heavy weapon, 2 BG 2 light arty
Feudal Germans FC, TC TC, 4 BG 4 knights sup lance/sword, 2 BG 8 HF armored defensive spear, 2 BG 8 MF crossbow, 2 BG 6 HF poor defensive spear, 1 BG 8 LF crossbow - all undrilled.

The battlefield was ringed with open and enclosed fields, with a small gentle hill in the center of the German half of the table.
with no terrain to anchor flanks both sides deployed with their infantry in the center, Low countries interspersing their light arty with their spear blocks, marksmen on the right. Low Countries knights deployed in 2x2 blocks on the left due to terrain congestion in the deployment area. The Germans dployed with the armored spears in the center, flanked by crossbows, with a screen of skirmishers to the front. 2 BG of knights on either wing. The poor spears were filler with the task of defending the camp.
Army composition was governed by the limits on command and control. The IC was needed by the Lowlanders to move the 5 BGs including artillery. The knight BGs were brigaded in pairs with TCs on both sides. The other TC on the Lowland side controlled the shooters. A FC was sufficient to control the 4 BGs of German foot.
Both sides advanced straight ahead and it was a slog fest. The German crossbows halted at long range to the Lowland line and were naturally ineffective vs the large spear blocks. The Lowland artillery did disrupt a German spear block, but it recovered before melee was joined. The skirmish line was driven off by a single BG of Lowland spears. On the German right the Germans were able to draw one Lowland knight BG into a premature charge which then conformed in a way that blocked the second from a clear charge path. Double overlapped the, lone Lowland BG was in dire straits before the second could join the battle. It broke in short order and the pursuing BG, reduced to 2 bases due to atrocious death rolls, rolled short, which allowed it to wheel into the rear of the other BG. caught in the vise it broke and the commander was unable to reach a friendly BG, so was captured, later ransomed. On the opposite flank, an attempt to enfilade the approaching German knights with the longbow in an open field failed when they wheeled out of range. However, the longbow advanced out of the field and inflicted casualties and cohesion losses on both enemy BGs. One BG then charged the crossbows while the other wheeled back to face the longbow. The crossbow benefitted from the timely arrival of an intercepting BG of halbardiers which drew off most of the knights, the longbow were not so fortunate, being quickly run down in the open. The knights facing the crossbows and halbardiers soon found themselves flanked by a second column of halbardiers and bravely ran away. In the center The lowland spears charged the German line, but could not concentrate force due to the artillery. The center BG broke quickly, but the righthand BG was able to engage and slowly feed more bases in until the line was filled in. The broken BG exposed a light artillery BG to pursuers which was quickly overwhelmed.
The lefthand BG of Lowland spears then charged the crossbows opposite and wiped them out in short order, the pursuit carrying them deep into the German rear. Then the righthand BG broke through the German spears and did the same to the crossbows on that flank. Valuable time was wasted by the IC in a futile effort to rally the fleeing BG of Lowland spear which eventually routed off the table. Meanwhile, the German FC had to leapfrog back to the poor spears to try to hold the line against the onrushing Lowlanders. The impact was taken on the very end of the line and the small poor spear block broke in one turn. but then rolled down on its rout holding up the Lowlanders long enough for the other BG to turn onto its flank. This changed the geometry of the fight and kept the lowlanders from using their superior numbers. The key to this fight was the desperate action fo the German CinC who fought in the front rank of his rabble and kept them in the fight, while the Lowlanders, lacking a commander, eventually succumbed to poor outcomes.
The game ended in a bloody draw as both sides had lost 5 BG apiece, and then each saw one of its BGs drop to fragged in the same turn. The Lowlanders had lost both Knight BGs, one BG of English longbow, one light artillery, and one spear BG, with a second fragmented. The Germans had lost one knight BG, 2 crossbow BGs , one armored spear BG, one poor spear BG, and had a second knight BG fragged. This was the one that had defeated the longbow, but then succumbed to the previously victorious crossbow.
The battle took place on a wide frontage and it was difficult to get the successful BGs on the German right back into the fight. The Lowlanders had an easier time because of the second line of poor spear in the German rear.
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Burgundians
In progress - Later Hungarians, Grand Moravians

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