Advice for a New Player

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Tokhuah
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Advice for a New Player

Post by Tokhuah » Fri May 23, 2014 2:57 am

I am new to FoG and to 15mm miniature historic wargaming, but am an old hand at board and card games, as well as building and painting a sizable 40K army. I am really looking forward to building, painting, and playing FoG but I need some advise from the experts.

I purchased an Essex Classic Indian starter army and picked up both the physical and electronic versions of the Rules and Immortal Fire. I also downloaded the Army List Generator, linked from this site. Here are my questions:

-What is a good glue for metal? Will Superglue work or is there something better?
-The box of miniatures did not come with bases, what sort of bases should I purchase? Are there standards determined by number and/or size of models? Any suggestions on brand, material, internet seller?
-Generally speaking, what sort of troops should I look for if I want to expand a Classic Indian Army?
-Anything I am missing right off the bat?

Your help is appreciated!
suck it

petedalby
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Re: Advice for a New Player

Post by petedalby » Fri May 23, 2014 6:39 am

Welcome to FoG - hope you enjoy it!

Where do you live? The thing you need most of all is an opponent(s) and hopefully some local friendly players who will introduce you to the game.

In terms of glue, I find superglue works pretty well. When it struggles I put super glue on 1 surface and PVA on the other and it bonds very well - use both very sparingly though.

Once upon a time I used to make my own bases using artists card. But now there are plenty of good quality laser cut MDF bases available. I use East Riding Miniatures. Their service has always been excellent.

http://shop.eastridingminiatures.co.uk/

Basing is defined in the rules - page 134. This gives you the base sizes and number of figures per base. If it's unclear just ask.

Hopefully someone else will help you with the expansion question. It's not an army I have ever used.

Above all - have fun!
Pete

grahambriggs
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Re: Advice for a New Player

Post by grahambriggs » Fri May 23, 2014 10:05 am

The bases you'll want for 15mm are all 40mm wide and:

Medium foot 20mm deep, three to a base
cavalry, 30mm deep three to a base
elephants and chariots 40mm deep one to a base

But as Peter says it's in the rule book.

Superglue works fine for me; I use a middling thinkness if I can. ERM bases are very quick - I ordered some last week and they arrived in 2 days.

I terms of expanding the army most people seem to go down the route of maximising the elephants (six battle groups of 2 elephant models each) as they are strong in combat. Quite often they'll have generals mounted on elephants fighting with them (improves their combat abilities and morale). The heavy chariots can also be good in combat.

A perfectly reasonable alternative is to add more of the infantry and cavalry and make it a combined arms type appraoch. They're not the stongest troops but they are inexpensive points wise.

ravenflight
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Re: Advice for a New Player

Post by ravenflight » Fri May 23, 2014 11:47 am

Tokhuah wrote:I purchased an Essex Classic Indian starter army...
Whoa - tough army to be competitive with. Well, if you start with this army you're going to have no problems what-so-ever with FOG if you win with it from the start :).

I'm not trying to discourage you - far from it - but I guess trying to be realistic that it's going to be tough to win with, so don't be discouraged in your first few games if they don't go the way you expect.

With V2 rules though perhaps unprotected archers may be ok.
Tokhuah wrote:-What is a good glue for metal? Will Superglue work or is there something better?
I find Superglue works 'ok-ish'. The absolute best you can use is two part epoxy, but it's difficult to use in small places, so I use superglue for things like drilled out spears etc and two part epoxy when I'm doing things like mounting riders on horses or putting shields on. The trouble with 2 part epoxy is that it leaves a reasonably large amount of residue. So it's fine if it's hidden behind a shield or under a riders arse, but not that great if you've got something like a spear to stick into a hand.
Tokhuah wrote:-Generally speaking, what sort of troops should I look for if I want to expand a Classic Indian Army?
I'm not overly familiar with the Essex bulk packs, but you've no doubt got some mounted, lots of archers and an elephant or two. The best part of your army is Elephants and Chariots. So what you want to do is win with this and support this with the rest. Not too bad a way to go as your Heavy Chariot options are effectively knights that shoot (not quite as good as Knights, but they shoot :) ) and your elephants are absolutely brilliant... or absolutely crap (a bit of a dice-off).

Your other mounted is crap with a capital K. Any other kind of mounted troops will beat them up and bring that flank to your knees, so if you buy them, you have to use them wisely. They may be very good at protecting your rear from anything that does get around the flank. I would min-max the army by minimising cavalry and maximising chariotry and elephants. You'll want a good core of archers, but your minimum is 24 which is 3 BG's of 8 anyway, so I'm not sure if you'll want too much more than that.

One 'size thing' that you may want to keep in the back of your mind is the Graeko-Indians. Effectively Alexander's Greeks in India after the death of Alexander, so you get some good hard hitting troops as well as the Indians that you've already got.

I'm sorry if I sound down on the Indians - I don't mean to be, it's just an army that I think will be tough to play with so trying to give you some options to make it tougher.

gozerius
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Re: Advice for a New Player

Post by gozerius » Sat May 24, 2014 2:39 am

The cav isn't much good except to provide rear support to your elephants. They can be staged far enough back that should the elephants break they have a chance to get out of the way, or more likely, the auto-broke elephants will disappear before getting to the cav. You will need several field commanders to keep your troops in some semblance of order, especially if you choose the undrilled option. Drilled troops are more maneuverable, but cost more for relatively weak troops. The chariots are tough. Consider the light chariot option for an excellent skirmish force. They outrange other skirmishers, and will beat them in close combat as well. Just make sure you match them up against a worthy opponent. Don't try trading shots with foot skirmishers. That's the job for all your naked archers.
Thracians
Classical Indians
Medieval
-Germans (many flavors), Danes, Low Countries
Burgundians
In progress - Later Hungarians, Grand Moravians

Tokhuah
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Re: Advice for a New Player

Post by Tokhuah » Sat May 24, 2014 4:13 pm

Great stuff all around with the responses; thank you all! I am in the San Francisco area of Northern California with a fairly healthy miniatures scene. I have two other fiends who like me have a strong draw the historical aspect and would attempt to battle with comparable lists. The tier/competitive level aspect does not bother me. I welcome the challenge and look forward to stretching my tactics skills. My initial draw to Classic Indian is from a historical/cultural perspective, and elephants. The worst case scenario would have been if I found out Elephants and Chariots were terrible and Indian only worked with a bunch of troops I do not prefer. It seems like I will be able to play the troops I like. I also like the Macedonians under Alexander and the historical connection with Indians would make the Greeks a great addition as I expand, so thanks for that advice.

BTW, this is what I have so far:
http://www.essexminiatures.co.uk/collec ... ucts/fog54
suck it

Eques
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Re: Advice for a New Player

Post by Eques » Sat May 24, 2014 4:25 pm

With regard to some of the responses about your choice of army it depends what you want to get out of the game.

If you want to play for fun, to recreate the experience of being an ancient general, for historical interest or because you feel an affinity with a certain type of army or troop type then don't worry too much about how "competetive" your army is or what you can use the various troop types for.

It is only if your primary interest is tournaments that you need to start worrying about whether you have the optimal "winning" force.

KiwiWarlord
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Re: Advice for a New Player

Post by KiwiWarlord » Mon May 26, 2014 4:18 am

Nothing wrong with Classical Indians these days. The fashionable shootie cav armies like Tartars, don't like a wall of near naked archers and elephants advancing on them.
My advice is to max out the Elephant Generals, I see only one was supplied from your Essex pack.

grahambriggs
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Re: Advice for a New Player

Post by grahambriggs » Tue May 27, 2014 10:55 am

Tokhuah wrote:Great stuff all around with the responses; thank you all! I am in the San Francisco area of Northern California with a fairly healthy miniatures scene. I have two other fiends who like me have a strong draw the historical aspect and would attempt to battle with comparable lists. The tier/competitive level aspect does not bother me. I welcome the challenge and look forward to stretching my tactics skills. My initial draw to Classic Indian is from a historical/cultural perspective, and elephants. The worst case scenario would have been if I found out Elephants and Chariots were terrible and Indian only worked with a bunch of troops I do not prefer. It seems like I will be able to play the troops I like. I also like the Macedonians under Alexander and the historical connection with Indians would make the Greeks a great addition as I expand, so thanks for that advice.

BTW, this is what I have so far:
http://www.essexminiatures.co.uk/collec ... ucts/fog54

I think you''ll have fun with them and the elephants and chariots are not only the most eye catching part of the army but the most effective. Like most rules, this set works best with historical enemies and the good thing about Indians is their enemies are a varied bunch - the massed cavalry of the Persians, Alexander in his prime, the wily skythians, and so on.

ravenflight
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Re: Advice for a New Player

Post by ravenflight » Wed May 28, 2014 1:18 pm

Warlord wrote:Nothing wrong with Classical Indians these days.
So, we'll see you use them at CanCon next year?

KiwiWarlord
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Re: Advice for a New Player

Post by KiwiWarlord » Wed Jun 04, 2014 7:37 am

ravenflight wrote:
Warlord wrote:Nothing wrong with Classical Indians these days.
So, we'll see you use them at CanCon next year?
Well elephants have become rather popular in DBR so who knows :?:
I should be there playing something and hopefully dining out again with you all.

ravenflight
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Re: Advice for a New Player

Post by ravenflight » Wed Jun 04, 2014 12:52 pm

Warlord wrote:Well elephants have become rather popular in DBR so who knows :?:
:)
Warlord wrote:I should be there playing something and hopefully dining out again with you all.
That would be good. I've just sent the e-mail off for MOAB FoG:R so I hope we have a decent turnout.

hazelbark
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Re: Advice for a New Player

Post by hazelbark » Tue Jun 10, 2014 6:29 pm

Tokhuah wrote:Great stuff all around with the responses; thank you all! I am in the San Francisco area of Northern California with a fairly healthy miniatures scene.
The is a big FOG ancients group at Game Kastle down next to San Jose airport.

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