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Russian Grenadiers

Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:05 pm
by deadtorius
Since after all this time I have actually reached the point where my Austrians are all painted, with the exception of a few boxes of extra infantry I don't really need for a game, I have decided to look at the Russian army. I figure I can add some Russian allies with the boys in white.

So the question is how many Grenadiers do you think in my unit? I know they get the snazzy feathers on top of their kiwers so that they stand out, but should I do them as 1 base of all grenadiers or just a single line of them on one or two bases?

They are 28mm plastics mounted 8 figs to a base, just looks way better for line troops.
Thanks for your thoughts.

Re: Russian Grenadiers

Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:43 pm
by KendallB
Later Russian infantry regiments would have 1 x Grenadier and 3 x Musketeer companies per battalion with two battalions making up the Regiment. Two infantry regiments make up a Brigade.

Roughly each base represents a battalion so you could go with 2 x Grenadier figures per base - being deployed on the right hand side of the base would be most appropriate.

Re: Russian Grenadiers

Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:20 am
by BrettPT
I've been re-painting some old Russians lately and have settled on one base of Grenadier figures per musketeer unit.

Because:

1. 1/4 of each Musketeer battalion were Grenadiers
2. By basing all the Grenadiers on a single base, these bases can also be used to make up Grenadier units if I want to field a Grenadier based force.

- I understand that - possibly - from 1811, only 1/2 of the Grenadiers in a Musketeer unit should have plumes, the other half being designated 'marksmen' and loosing their feathers.
Not completely sure on this and I've chosen to ignore it anyway, mainly because I have lots of plumed Grenadier figures to find a home for ...

Cheers
Brett

Re: Russian Grenadiers

Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:09 am
by hazelbark
I don't think the marksmen grenadiers lost their plumes.

Re: Russian Grenadiers

Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:22 am
by deadtorius
Thanks for the replies, think I will go one base since can get double use for a grenadier unit.

Re: Russian Grenadiers

Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:36 am
by Sarmaticus
I tend to favour painting all the figures in a unit the same - unless there is some functional diffrence in game terms. The unit looks less bitty; company distinctons can be used to tell units apart; flank company distinctions can mark out higher grade line or light units.

Re: Russian Grenadiers

Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:47 am
by shadowdragon
hazelbark wrote:I don't think the marksmen grenadiers lost their plumes.
In the Osprey book they have a figure of a Jager Carabinier (the equivalent to the "grenadier" platoon in the elite company of Jager battalions) with a plume and the following note:

"His rank is indicated by the collar and cuff lace and the coloured top to the plume, the latter only worn by the carabinier section of the carabinier company, not by the tirailleur platoon." I would assume the same applies to the "tirailleur" platoon of grenadier company of infantry platoons.

However, I have, so far, painted all figures in an infantry or jager battalion without plumes.

Re: Russian Grenadiers

Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:08 pm
by deadtorius
Apart from plumes it seems pretty hard to distinguish Russian line troops. From what I recall reading, the different regiments within a division have distinct shoulder straps with the regimental or divisional numbers on them. The flags are distinct to each regiment. Austrians are much easier with bold facing colors so you can tell units apart. Still I label the bases with the regiments name and number as its easier when making the army spread sheet. The Frenchies are all blue and sometimes poor Blathergut has to check his bases to see who who and what division they came from. Looks like I might have similar problems in the future. Now I just need to figure out the whole flag issue, with my 20mm armies I photocopied and hand painted flags, but they were much smaller so details were less important than they might be with 28mm figs.

Re: Russian Grenadiers

Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:14 pm
by hazelbark
The russians by 1812 were very standarized

Division
2 Yeger regiments
one had blue the other yellow distinctions.
4 line
red, light blue, yellow and white shoulder tabs.
batalions had different pom-pom.

Re: Russian Grenadiers

Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 6:57 am
by KendallB
Perhaps some crafty code for your basing scheme by adding rocks, bushes etc.

Re: Russian Grenadiers

Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 11:41 am
by shadowdragon
deadtorius wrote:Apart from plumes it seems pretty hard to distinguish Russian line troops. From what I recall reading, the different regiments within a division have distinct shoulder straps with the regimental or divisional numbers on them. The flags are distinct to each regiment. Austrians are much easier with bold facing colors so you can tell units apart. Still I label the bases with the regiments name and number as its easier when making the army spread sheet. The Frenchies are all blue and sometimes poor Blathergut has to check his bases to see who who and what division they came from. Looks like I might have similar problems in the future. Now I just need to figure out the whole flag issue, with my 20mm armies I photocopied and hand painted flags, but they were much smaller so details were less important than they might be with 28mm figs.
Build the 1805-1809 Russian army. There's more variation in facing colours; and the grenadiers have big bushy plumes and not the later skinny ones.

Re: Russian Grenadiers

Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 12:40 am
by deadtorius
Alas at present I only have 3 boxes of Russians and they are all later period with skinny plumes. I had thought to make veterans earlier, harder to get wagons catching up with an army that keeps marching about chasing comrade frog.

Re: Russian Grenadiers

Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:25 pm
by hazelbark
shadowdragon wrote: Build the 1805-1809 Russian army. There's more variation in facing colours; and the grenadiers have big bushy plumes and not the later skinny ones.
Don't forget the yegers with the bright green and that gentleman's hunting hat.

Re: Russian Grenadiers

Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 12:11 am
by shadowdragon
hazelbark wrote:
shadowdragon wrote: Build the 1805-1809 Russian army. There's more variation in facing colours; and the grenadiers have big bushy plumes and not the later skinny ones.
Don't forget the yegers with the bright green and that gentleman's hunting hat.
I would never forget them. I had some old 25mm Minifigs of those waaaay back when. I also won't forget the stoic 25mm Minifig Smolensk Musketeers who seemed to never fail a morale test no matter what.

Re: Russian Grenadiers

Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 4:15 am
by KendallB
The Russian army wasn't exactly prompt at replacing uniforms so you could have some of the older uniforms in the mix. There is good evidence from eye-witnesses in Paris in 1814, including woodprints of occupying Russian troops, that showed some infantry were wearing 1811 kit. Even at Austerlitz there were units still wearing bicornes and some grenadier and guard units still wore mitres.

I will have some units with the previous uniform in my various Russian armies to have some variety. Plus it's a great way of remembering which unit is which!

Re: Russian Grenadiers

Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:46 pm
by hazelbark
Agreed its pretty certain to say that all armies did not change over instantly to a new uniform.

I was reading something last night how the units in depot were often issued older uniforms as a "temporary" measure of cost savings. Then one wonders if they were hurried to the front did the get a new kit.

Re: Russian Grenadiers

Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 3:18 pm
by shadowdragon
KendallB wrote:The Russian army wasn't exactly prompt at replacing uniforms so you could have some of the older uniforms in the mix. There is good evidence from eye-witnesses in Paris in 1814, including woodprints of occupying Russian troops, that showed some infantry were wearing 1811 kit. Even at Austerlitz there were units still wearing bicornes and some grenadier and guard units still wore mitres.

I will have some units with the previous uniform in my various Russian armies to have some variety. Plus it's a great way of remembering which unit is which!
In the case of flags you have even more freedom of expression since the 1797, 1800 and 1803 variants continued to be used for a long time and few 1813 pattern flags seemed to have been issued before the end of the wars.

Re: Russian Grenadiers

Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:02 pm
by deadtorius
I have kept my flags removable so that I can switch them about as I wish. Pavlovs currently have their Inspection flag and I have 2 of their Guard flags with the blue/white and black/white cross. I will print off the original Orange flag since it looks like when I make a light infantry unit I will end up with 2 extra standard bearers, so Pavlovs will be getting at least one more flag in their unit, when it gets expanded to 6 bases, currently 4.
As for Grenadiers I have decided to go with the 2 figs per base right hand side, just like the look of it better is all. First unit had them all on one base.

Re: Russian Grenadiers

Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 10:47 pm
by ravenflight
shadowdragon wrote:In the case of flags you have even more freedom of expression since the 1797, 1800 and 1803 variants continued to be used for a long time and few 1813 pattern flags seemed to have been issued before the end of the wars.
Flags are substantially easier to replace than uniforms. And also, if your quartermaster still has stocks of 'old' uniforms and the troops are wearing clothing that isn't thread bare, would you replace them just because of some ordinance that has come out? Where as the flag... well... that's the honour of the whole regiment!!!