Russian Guard

[deadtorius]

Working away on my Russian army and I realized that using the Perry Brothers plastics I will be severely short on grenadier heads. Each sprue only comes with 2 bottle brush plumes and 2 thin plumes for the grenadiers. I personally like the Perry figs more so than Warlords, I have both, but Warlord gives you enough heads with plumes to do an entire unit up. Did all the Guards wear the grenadier plume, or just the elite companies?
Only draw back to the Perry figs as they took out the extra space to put in a full complement of forage caps, 1812 and 1809 shakos so less room for the fancy plumed chapeaus. I am almost tempted to ask my sculptor buddy to make me up some heads and get him to cast me up a bunch, I really would prefer not to have to go back to Warlord figs though.

[ravenflight]

Working away on my Russian army and I realized that using the Perry Brothers plastics I will be severely short on grenadier heads. Each sprue only comes with 2 bottle brush plumes and 2 thin plumes for the grenadiers. I personally like the Perry figs more so than Warlords, I have both, but Warlord gives you enough heads with plumes to do an entire unit up. Did all the Guards wear the grenadier plume, or just the elite companies?
Only draw back to the Perry figs as they took out the extra space to put in a full complement of forage caps, 1812 and 1809 shakos so less room for the fancy plumed chapeaus. I am almost tempted to ask my sculptor buddy to make me up some heads and get him to cast me up a bunch, I really would prefer not to have to go back to Warlord figs though.

From memory (and I'll have to check) the Guards were the same as Musketeers in their company layout. The only time you would have an entire unit of 'plumes' would be converged grenadiers.

[shadowdragon]

My Osprey volume for the Russian infantry specifically says that all guards had the grenadier plume on their shakos. Sry.

[shadowdragon]

Nice article here...

http://napoleonistyka.atspace.com/Russian_guard.htm

It also states they all had grenadier plumes.....except the Jagers. Maybe you could do the non-plumed figures as guard Jagers.

[deadtorius]

Thats what I had thought, they all wore the plume. Too bad Perrys didn't take that into consideration when they put their sprues together. I have a thing against a unit in fatigue caps in combat. I have never seen any art work depicting that in combat only in casual situation do you see it. Might have to go with Warlord after all then

[shadowdragon]

How big a unit of guards were you planning to build? 4 or 6 bases? What I'd do is do 2 bases as guard Jagers (no plumes) and the rest as guard line infantry. Later if you build another guard unit you will have enough to expand the guard Jagers to a full unit of 4 bases with the line infantry (plumes) concentrated in the other unit(s).

For nations like the UK that rarely had battalions from the same regiment in a brigade I'm doing 2 bases painted up to represent a particular battalion and then combining 2 or 3 of these into a FoG unit.

[deadtorius]

Good article. Now I have a new problem. Horse artillery wore the dragoon helmet. Being the only army that has a mandatory horse battery, as far as I know, trying to think of cheap way of getting those helmets. I might just use Austrian heads and file the plume flat as it's close and I have plenty of Victrix heads left over. Too much to buy dragons just to cut off the heads.

However think I might use the method I used on my old 1/72 scale soft plastics for grenadier plumes, insert wire and coat with artist gesso, worked great for them. 3 boxes of plastic Russians to go so might do 2 guard with Perry's and fanagoria grenadiers with the last warlord box. Gotta love that name.

[Blathergut]

stick with conscripts

[shadowdragon]

I believe the horse artillery switched to the kiwer shako in 1814....although that might not be what you want.

[deadtorius]

Yeah they did switch in 1814 but that's too late. Austrian helmets are not exact but will have to do as it's affordable.

Since we are caring on about oddities, was wanting to do Russo Prussian unit, was going to give them the later 1813 pattern Russian flag, green cross white corners. No one seemed to have any info on any flag they might have carried so it's a guess as them being latest version of Russian flag.

[shadowdragon]

Yeah they did switch in 1814 but that's too late. Austrian helmets are not exact but will have to do as it's affordable.

Since we are caring on about oddities, was wanting to do Russo Prussian unit, was going to give them the later 1813 pattern Russian flag, green cross white corners. No one seemed to have any info on any flag they might have carried so it's a guess as them being latest version of Russian flag.

Try this

http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=211304

[deadtorius]

Interesting stuff, guess it will be no flags for those boys. Some more extra figs to add to the pile. I should be able to scrounge up 2 extra inf from the left over figs from one of the jager units or I could add extra drummers to fill the gaps.
Thanks for your help.

[MDH]

Good article. Now I have a new problem. Horse artillery wore the dragoon helmet. Being the only army that has a mandatory horse battery, as far as I know, trying to think of cheap way of getting those helmets. I might just use Austrian heads and file the plume flat as it's close and I have plenty of Victrix heads left over. Too much to buy dragons just to cut off the heads..

It is a pity you have had to use modified plastics for Russian Line Horse artillery but even more so that they don’t do them in plastic in the first place.

It reminds me of turning 1/72nd Airfix US Cavalry into Brunswick lancers in 1972. Slice off cowboy style hat with razor blade. Invert. Square off brim with blade. Stick back on head upside down- Czapska! Snip off sword. Bore hole in hand with needle heated over candle held in a cork ( so as not to burn fingers! ) . Snip off some sprue hold over said candle and stre----eetch. Lance! Snip lance to required size which will now go through hole. Touch deftly with tip of heated needle to secure. Cut Kleenex to make pennant – enamel paint dries it hard. I had a whole army of adapted figures at that time!

But for the aforesaid Horse Artillery I don’t think you can beat these ( see photos) original 1972 Peter Gilder Hincliffes – what an artist he was- my painting then as now does not do them justice but from 2-3 feet above the table top who sees anything but the movement and finesse in the sculpture ! . He was such a loss to the miniatures community.

I particularly love the officer with his helmet in the crook of his left arm. You can still get them and they may be even cheaper than Perry but whether you can over there I don’t know. Being proper 25mm they will fit with Perry figures. The original guns as here used to be really nice but the later versions of them less so.

[deadtorius]

Nice pictures indeed. Sometimes I wish they would put more animation into their poses these days that officer with the helmet in his arm is nice. One good thing about Warlord is they give you 1 officer and 2 arm variations but no one can beat Victrix for extra body parts for the best variation in officer and soldier poses.
Some of your 1/72 conversions were easier than what I had to go through shaving the shoulders down on Esci French guard Artillery figs for my Russians artillery. This was before Hat came out with theirs and I actually preferred my Esci conversions in the end. Also had to use Esci Crimean war Russians for Austrian artillery crews with Esci Prussian bicornes and then wires and gesso to make the plume. I think they still look pretty good to this day. Good old days of soft plastic when almost nothing was available in Napoleonics so you had to make creative substitutions. Still I prefer the 28mm and the selection we have available, although its odd that Perry have never done lancers for Austria or Russia so far. Might be repainting some French lancers for Russian Uhlans one of these days.

Looking at your photos I might have to add some putty to the Austrian heads to get the plume a bit taller, might help make it all look a bit higher for the helmet. Victrix officer heads have helmets with larger crests so it gets a bit taller looking and I should hopefully have enough extras of those to use. Its cheaper than hoping Perrys would sell me 8 Dragoon riders with no horses just so I can whack the heads off though. To buy 3 packs to get 8 heads and then have 1 rider left with 8 headless horsemen is just way too expensive in my opinion. And what could I do with the 8 bodies then? 1/72 scale was a bit easier as everything was small enough you could swap heads and get away with it. My soft plastic Russian Dragoons were Esci British Scots Greys bodies with Esci Austrian helmeted heads, and they always looked good. Kind of like turning back the hands of time once again.

[MDH]

Nice pictures indeed. Sometimes I wish they would put more animation into their poses these days that officer with the helmet in his arm is nice. One good thing about Warlord is they give you 1 officer and 2 arm variations but no one can beat Victrix for extra body parts for the best variation in officer and soldier poses.
Some of your 1/72 conversions were easier than what I had to go through shaving the shoulders down on Esci French guard Artillery figs for my Russians artillery. This was before Hat came out with theirs and I actually preferred my Esci conversions in the end. Also had to use Esci Crimean war Russians for Austrian artillery crews with Esci Prussian bicornes and then wires and gesso to make the plume. I think they still look pretty good to this day. Good old days of soft plastic when almost nothing was available in Napoleonics so you had to make creative substitutions. Still I prefer the 28mm and the selection we have available, although its odd that Perry have never done lancers for Austria or Russia so far. Might be repainting some French lancers for Russian Uhlans one of these days.

Looking at your photos I might have to add some putty to the Austrian heads to get the plume a bit taller, might help make it all look a bit higher for the helmet. Victrix officer heads have helmets with larger crests so it gets a bit taller looking and I should hopefully have enough extras of those to use. Its cheaper than hoping Perrys would sell me 8 Dragoon riders with no horses just so I can whack the heads off though. To buy 3 packs to get 8 heads and then have 1 rider left with 8 headless horsemen is just way too expensive in my opinion. And what could I do with the 8 bodies then? 1/72 scale was a bit easier as everything was small enough you could swap heads and get away with it. My soft plastic Russian Dragoons were Esci British Scots Greys bodies with Esci Austrian helmeted heads, and they always looked good. Kind of like turning back the hands of time once again.

I don't think Esci were around or at least available in the UK in 1972. The plastics choice then was Airfix ...or.. Airfix! But it did bring out some ingenious adaptations.

These days in 28mm we are so fortunate to have the wealth of figures available - depending on your pocket of course over and I don't know how wide a range is easily obtainable over the pond . We are very fortunate here I think to have so many great modellers working the up the " greens" . But I am having to forbid myself any more 28mm as I have just run out of storage space for them while I still have many 15mm and smaller to complete rebase etc.

The trouble with modern plastics especially the ancient and medieval ones is the tendency for arms and heads to come off- a tad too realistic for my taste!

But as you say there can still be gaps. I had someone make me some 28mm Russian Chevalier Guard of 1805 a few years back (the tall Sausage/roll crest and Vexilium standard) only to find not long after that Elite had produced Russian heavies in that uniform that were much better but I don't think either really match what Peter Gilder was capable of doing for sheer elegance and beauty. I wanted something that would turn a lady's head in St Petersburg ( and make her weep after Austerlitz).A regiment of Andrei Bolkonskys.

Peter's Guard Chasseur Officer, based on the famous painting, with the sabre sweeping across the back of the horse as it rears up for example. Some of his later Connoisseur and Foremost range were/are also outstanding ( others less so - a bit hit and miss) and are still available. But the metallurgy can be a bit fragile - swords snapping at the hilt , bayonets the same. But the poses !!! Mini diaromas on the table .

Good luck with the conversions!

[Sarmaticus]

Looking at your photos I might have to add some putty to the Austrian heads to get the plume a bit taller, might help make it all look a bit higher for the helmet. Victrix officer heads have helmets with larger crests so it gets a bit taller looking and I should hopefully have enough extras of those to use. Its cheaper than hoping Perrys would sell me 8 Dragoon riders with no horses just so I can whack the heads off though. To buy 3 packs to get 8 heads and then have 1 rider left with 8 headless horsemen is just way too expensive in my opinion. And what could I do with the 8 bodies then?

You could make Mounted Jager with a bit of work.

[deadtorius]

I had toyed with that idea originally, but Perry makes the mounted Jagers and also cutting off the skakos you leave the ends of the cords on the arty figures. They would have to be filed off but would be a pain to try and put onto a Dragoon when you put on the new head. Still think the plastic Austrian head will have to do. It will be a bit before I get the figs ordered anyway so I still have time to think on it. Thanks for your idea.

[deadtorius]

stick with conscripts

Regardless of Blatherguts taunting, I have decided to make 2 units of poor/conscript infantry in a mix of fatigue caps and shakos. They will look more messy and lax that way, much worse off than the regular line who are all uniformed and looking smart about it. My new guys are mostly looking everywhere but ahead, off to the right and left so they should give a nice motley poor appearance. And I can save a few grenadier shakos in the process.
One of these days I will be doing Guard though
Right now I have to put together my order of Russian Cavalry first.

[ravenflight]

stick with conscripts

Regardless of Blatherguts taunting, I have decided to make 2 units of poor/conscript infantry in a mix of fatigue caps and shakos. They will look more messy and lax that way, much worse off than the regular line who are all uniformed and looking smart about it. My new guys are mostly looking everywhere but ahead, off to the right and left so they should give a nice motley poor appearance. And I can save a few grenadier shakos in the process.
One of these days I will be doing Guard though
Right now I have to put together my order of Russian Cavalry first.

Interestingly, I remember reading about one of the celtic battles against the Romans. There were two units. One was soiled, unkept, seemingly lacking in discipline. The other was crisp, clean and quick to obey orders.

The celts charged the first unit, who happened to be veterans, leaving the raw recruits alone, and were masacred

[deadtorius]

I recall reading in Wargames Illustrated many years ago an article which pointed out that in this era veteran units would be in faded and patched uniforms and probably wearing pieces of captured enemy equipment. They suggested swapping heads with the figs of your enemy so you would have British with French Shakos for example. Not sure if all armies would charge a penalty for missing uniform pieces, but I know the Brits did. Easiest thing to lose was your hat so when it came time to form up and see what the butchers bill was for that last battle, the troops would look about for any missing uniform pieces and grab them to save the cost of the fine.
Also interesting to note was an article I read online recently talking about uniform colours. White was easiest to keep looking the best as stains or patches can be blended in with chalk powder. Coloured uniforms will fade/ change colour over time from sun etc. Patches added to coloured uniforms would stand out as the patches would be closer to the original colour and would contrast when sewn over any holes in the existing uniform. Also keep in mind that dye lots will vary especially in this era so it would be hard to get a perfect colour match with new and old fabrics.

Of course in the case of the Russian army getting the new equipment out to the troops to begin with was hard enough and new units would likely be issued old equipment and in the case of my units its a lack of proper head gear. Thats why I want my poor/conscript slackers to have forage caps and shakos and look not so neat and tidy as the other line units. Also having more of them looking about should give them a less proper appearence.