West Front British Skirmish Mod 1.4

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Paul59
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Re: West Front British Skirmish Mod 1.1

Post by Paul59 » Fri Feb 21, 2020 9:28 pm

DatMoff wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 4:42 pm
On a side note, I noticed that the Crusader tank is not present in the British mod, which I would assume was done intentionally since the Crusader tanks saw service primarily in North Africa (and as far as I know only the SPAA variants saw action in Europe). Considering that the Late 1940 to Early 1944 eras are basically hypothetical battles though, it seems strange to not include the Crusader in the roster, especially considering that they were quite common during 1941 and 42. On the other hand, I could see why they weren't included, given that the Sherman shows up in 1942 and the Cromwell somewhere in late 1943/early 1944, and given that the original Crusader tank in the first game only a 2pdr gun that made it rather irrelevant whenever you had Shermans or even Matildas for that matter, it seems only sensible to leave the Crusader out as it doesn't really offer anything over the Sherman/Matilda/A13 besides maybe being cheaper and faster than the first two.

In short; I made an observation about the lack of Crusader tanks, and figured it was because it A) didn't fit in with the roster given how redundant it was and B) this mod is based in France and base-model Crusaders weren't at all present there.
Yes, I think your observations are correct, although I have included other desert only (historically) tanks. I think the deciding factor for me was that it was proving very difficult to create a western European camo texture for the Crusader!
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Re: West Front British Skirmish Mod 1.1

Post by DatMoff » Sat Feb 22, 2020 2:11 am

Paul59 wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 9:28 pm
DatMoff wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 4:42 pm
On a side note, I noticed that the Crusader tank is not present in the British mod, which I would assume was done intentionally since the Crusader tanks saw service primarily in North Africa (and as far as I know only the SPAA variants saw action in Europe). Considering that the Late 1940 to Early 1944 eras are basically hypothetical battles though, it seems strange to not include the Crusader in the roster, especially considering that they were quite common during 1941 and 42. On the other hand, I could see why they weren't included, given that the Sherman shows up in 1942 and the Cromwell somewhere in late 1943/early 1944, and given that the original Crusader tank in the first game only a 2pdr gun that made it rather irrelevant whenever you had Shermans or even Matildas for that matter, it seems only sensible to leave the Crusader out as it doesn't really offer anything over the Sherman/Matilda/A13 besides maybe being cheaper and faster than the first two.

In short; I made an observation about the lack of Crusader tanks, and figured it was because it A) didn't fit in with the roster given how redundant it was and B) this mod is based in France and base-model Crusaders weren't at all present there.
Yes, I think your observations are correct, although I have included other desert only (historically) tanks. I think the deciding factor for me was that it was proving very difficult to create a western European camo texture for the Crusader!
Besides maybe a simple dark-green livery, I can see how that would be a problem. On an unrelated note, I noticed that the 8th Army Engineers from the first game have only 3 charges instead of 4 like most Engineer units would have (for context, I have been playing through the campaigns from the first game with the intent on getting achievements I had yet to acquire). Any idea why this is the case?

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Re: West Front British Skirmish Mod 1.1

Post by Paul59 » Sat Feb 22, 2020 12:34 pm

DatMoff wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 2:11 am

Besides maybe a simple dark-green livery, I can see how that would be a problem.
It's actually the simple dark green livery that is hard to create! I could easily make a plain green texture, but it would look rubbish, as I would have to paint over all the details. As the original desert texture has such a prominent pattern, it is very hard to erase that but leaving all the vehicle details (hatches, rivets etc). I could probably do it, but it would take far to long for a vehicle which does not have any real purpose in the mod.

DatMoff wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 2:11 am

On an unrelated note, I noticed that the 8th Army Engineers from the first game have only 3 charges instead of 4 like most Engineer units would have (for context, I have been playing through the campaigns from the first game with the intent on getting achievements I had yet to acquire). Any idea why this is the case?
I have no idea. Maybe it is an error? The AP charges seem to be distributed according to a very simple system; 2 for regular infantry, 3 for elite infantry, and 4 for engineers. The Desert Rat Engineers are the only unit to not conform to that system.
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Re: West Front British Skirmish Mod 1.1

Post by DatMoff » Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:11 am

Played the Husky mission with the Rangers defending against Italian tank column. A similar situation but more likely made intentional where some Rangers will either have just 1 or 2 AP charges instead of 3; Using the resupply bonus will give them 3 again, so it could just be that the mission implies that the Rangers don't have all of their equipment on-hand. As for the Desert Rat Engineers, I would assume the reason that they only have 3 instead of 4 could simply be implying that they carry less because it's the desert and having so much heavy equipment on you slows you down. It could also explain why the Brits and Germans don't have dedicated anti-tank infantry in the North African Campaign despite the fact that Anti-Tank Rifles and Bazookas were used on that front.

This is just my speculation though, it could just be a number of other reasons; realistically it could just be that whoever was in charge of the unit stat values (or whatever you call them) erroneously gave them "Elite Infantry" Status as opposed to "Engineer status". Although if that were the case, I'd be wondering why they (and the Rangers) don't have 125 morale like that of the Airborne or Waffen SS (again, maybe elite doesn't necessarily mean "high morale"?).

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Re: West Front British Skirmish Mod 1.1

Post by TankerOne » Sun Feb 23, 2020 8:08 am

I think this was due to how the western desert campaign is set up, as a introductory campaign that's relatively easy and uncomplicated.

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Re: West Front British Skirmish Mod 1.1

Post by Paul59 » Sun Feb 23, 2020 11:41 am

DatMoff wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:11 am
Played the Husky mission with the Rangers defending against Italian tank column. A similar situation but more likely made intentional where some Rangers will either have just 1 or 2 AP charges instead of 3; Using the resupply bonus will give them 3 again, so it could just be that the mission implies that the Rangers don't have all of their equipment on-hand. As for the Desert Rat Engineers, I would assume the reason that they only have 3 instead of 4 could simply be implying that they carry less because it's the desert and having so much heavy equipment on you slows you down. It could also explain why the Brits and Germans don't have dedicated anti-tank infantry in the North African Campaign despite the fact that Anti-Tank Rifles and Bazookas were used on that front.

This is just my speculation though, it could just be a number of other reasons; realistically it could just be that whoever was in charge of the unit stat values (or whatever you call them) erroneously gave them "Elite Infantry" Status as opposed to "Engineer status". Although if that were the case, I'd be wondering why they (and the Rangers) don't have 125 morale like that of the Airborne or Waffen SS (again, maybe elite doesn't necessarily mean "high morale"?).
There is a script in that mission which lowers the amount of charges carried by the Rangers. They normally carry 3.

I also thought that the Desert Rat Engineers might be carrying less equipment due to the desert, but the Afrika Korps Engineers have 4 charges, so that seems to make no sense.

I don't know why the Rangers are only 100 morale, that could be an error too.
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Re: West Front British Skirmish Mod 1.1

Post by DatMoff » Sun Feb 23, 2020 4:28 pm

Paul59 wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 11:41 am
DatMoff wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:11 am
Played the Husky mission with the Rangers defending against Italian tank column. A similar situation but more likely made intentional where some Rangers will either have just 1 or 2 AP charges instead of 3; Using the resupply bonus will give them 3 again, so it could just be that the mission implies that the Rangers don't have all of their equipment on-hand. As for the Desert Rat Engineers, I would assume the reason that they only have 3 instead of 4 could simply be implying that they carry less because it's the desert and having so much heavy equipment on you slows you down. It could also explain why the Brits and Germans don't have dedicated anti-tank infantry in the North African Campaign despite the fact that Anti-Tank Rifles and Bazookas were used on that front.

This is just my speculation though, it could just be a number of other reasons; realistically it could just be that whoever was in charge of the unit stat values (or whatever you call them) erroneously gave them "Elite Infantry" Status as opposed to "Engineer status". Although if that were the case, I'd be wondering why they (and the Rangers) don't have 125 morale like that of the Airborne or Waffen SS (again, maybe elite doesn't necessarily mean "high morale"?).
There is a script in that mission which lowers the amount of charges carried by the Rangers. They normally carry 3.

I also thought that the Desert Rat Engineers might be carrying less equipment due to the desert, but the Afrika Korps Engineers have 4 charges, so that seems to make no sense.

I don't know why the Rangers are only 100 morale, that could be an error too.
Seems like there were a couple of hiccups that flew past the radar then, but fortunately they aren't anything too game-breaking mechanics-wise. I can live with Rangers having 100 morale instead of 125, and can live with Desert Rat engineers having 1 less AP charge.

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Re: West Front British Skirmish Mod 1.1

Post by Paul59 » Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:04 pm

DatMoff wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 4:28 pm

Seems like there were a couple of hiccups that flew past the radar then, but fortunately they aren't anything too game-breaking mechanics-wise. I can live with Rangers having 100 morale instead of 125, and can live with Desert Rat engineers having 1 less AP charge.
Yes, but I will change them for my mods, as long as no one comes up with a good explanation.
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Re: West Front British Skirmish Mod 1.1

Post by rico21 » Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:35 pm

It all depends on the year of use
In 1942, the American army did not master high intensity combat or individual anti-tank struggle.

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Re: West Front British Skirmish Mod 1.1

Post by DatMoff » Mon Feb 24, 2020 12:06 am

rico21 wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:35 pm
It all depends on the year of use
In 1942, the American army did not master high intensity combat or individual anti-tank struggle.
Except that the Ranger units have mostly been used in 1943 - 1945 scenarios. On another note, the US Rangers are similar to the German paras when it comes to their weapons; most Elite infantry I've seen use SMGs of some sort, whereas the Rangers and German Paras use Automatic rifles (BARs/FG 42s). This also means they typically have better range than say the Waffen SS or US Airborne when engaging enemy infantry.

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Re: West Front British Skirmish Mod 1.1

Post by TankerOne » Wed Feb 26, 2020 1:41 am

rico21 wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:35 pm
It all depends on the year of use
In 1942, the American army did not master high intensity combat or individual anti-tank struggle.
Source?

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Re: West Front British Skirmish Mod 1.1

Post by DatMoff » Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:49 pm

TankerOne wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 1:41 am
rico21 wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:35 pm
It all depends on the year of use
In 1942, the American army did not master high intensity combat or individual anti-tank struggle.
Source?
He may be referring to American units in Operation Torch, which to be honest their issues were more out of being inexperienced and overconfident. Battles like Kasserine Pass were the result of US forces clearly underestimating the capabilities of the German forces, considering that they mostly fought Vichy French forces in the early stages of Torch. Not so sure about the Italians though, but my guess is that any Italians left in North Africa were pretty much assimilated into Rommel's forces.

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Re: West Front British Skirmish Mod 1.1

Post by DatMoff » Wed Feb 26, 2020 6:46 pm

@PoorOldSpike how is the Polish mod doing so far? All I could really get from the screenshot you had taken a while back was that the Poles have new livery for their tanks (and they have FTs now).

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Re: West Front British Skirmish Mod 1.1

Post by PoorOldSpike » Thu Feb 27, 2020 11:25 am

DatMoff wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 6:46 pm
@PoorOldSpike how is the Polish mod doing so far? All I could really get from the screenshot you had taken a while back was that the Poles have new livery for their tanks (and they have FTs now).
Yeah I've been steadily playtesting the Polish mod for a while now and giving Paul feedback, and as far as I can tell there are no major issues now and it runs fine, so I'll PM Paul to suggest he might as well release it now..:)

Below- a skirmish test game, most of my attacking Polish tanks have been stopped in their tracks by the three German 37mm AT 'doorknockers" in the treeline and I lost the battle (sniffle).
With hindsight I was too gungho, I should have advanced more cautiously, knocking out one ATG at a time before advancing into the range of the next, and I should have kept my Polish infantry advancing up front with the tanks so they could engage the ATG's with their rifles.

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Re: West Front British Skirmish Mod 1.1

Post by Paul59 » Thu Feb 27, 2020 2:10 pm

DatMoff wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 6:46 pm
@PoorOldSpike how is the Polish mod doing so far? All I could really get from the screenshot you had taken a while back was that the Poles have new livery for their tanks (and they have FTs now).
Yes, I think it is ready to be released, but I recently had some second thoughts about it.

The original designer of the Case White Polish campaign/scenarios (and the Polish models) is Petcat. I have realised that it may have been his intention to use his campaign as a skirmish generator, so I don't want to release my Polish Skirmish mod without his agreement. I sent him a pm a while back, and I am awaiting his reply. I suspect that Petcat does not follow these forums/games anymore, so I may well be waiting in vain. If he does not respond in a week or two, I will just go ahead and release anyway.
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Re: West Front British Skirmish Mod 1.1

Post by PoorOldSpike » Thu Feb 27, 2020 2:54 pm

Paul59 wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 2:10 pm
..I don't want to release my Polish Skirmish mod without his [Petcats] agreement...If he does not respond in a week or two, I will just go ahead and release anyway.
Good call, you're not making money from it so I don't see him having any objection if you give him credit in the Readme, and if he does object later for any reason you can always un-release it and apologise to him for thinking it was 'abandonware'..:)

PS- any news of your forthcoming BA2 Desert War skirmish mod?
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Re: West Front British Skirmish Mod 1.1

Post by Paul59 » Thu Feb 27, 2020 2:59 pm

PoorOldSpike wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 2:54 pm
Paul59 wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 2:10 pm
..I don't want to release my Polish Skirmish mod without his [Petcats] agreement...If he does not respond in a week or two, I will just go ahead and release anyway.
Good call, you're not making money from it so I don't see him having any objection if you give him credit in the Readme, and if he does object later for any reason you can always un-release it and apologise to him for thinking it was 'abandonware'..:)

PS- any news of your forthcoming BA2 Desert War skirmish mod?
I am very busy on other projects, and I cannot see me working on it again for a long time. But I always come back to Battle Academy, so don't worry, I will return!
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Re: West Front British Skirmish Mod 1.1

Post by DatMoff » Thu Feb 27, 2020 7:32 pm

Paul59 wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 2:59 pm
PoorOldSpike wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 2:54 pm
Paul59 wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 2:10 pm
..I don't want to release my Polish Skirmish mod without his [Petcats] agreement...If he does not respond in a week or two, I will just go ahead and release anyway.
Good call, you're not making money from it so I don't see him having any objection if you give him credit in the Readme, and if he does object later for any reason you can always un-release it and apologise to him for thinking it was 'abandonware'..:)

PS- any news of your forthcoming BA2 Desert War skirmish mod?
I am very busy on other projects, and I cannot see me working on it again for a long time. But I always come back to Battle Academy, so don't worry, I will return!
Don't worry, take as much time as you need. The last thing you'll want to be facing is a bad case of burnout. I should know myself...

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Re: West Front British Skirmish Mod 1.1

Post by PoorOldSpike » Sat Feb 29, 2020 9:56 am

Paul59 wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 2:59 pm
PoorOldSpike wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 2:54 pm
..any news of your forthcoming BA2 Desert War skirmish mod?
I am very busy on other projects, and I cannot see me working on it again for a long time. But I always come back to Battle Academy, so don't worry, I will return!
In fact we already have enough German, Brit and US units in the West Front skirmish mods to create Desert War battles 1941-43 if we don't mind playing on green Russian or France terrain, and if we don't mind the units not having desert camo..:)

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Re: West Front British Skirmish Mod 1.1

Post by PoorOldSpike » Thu Mar 12, 2020 4:52 am

THE GRANT
As you know, historically the Grant had a 37mm gun in the turret and a 75mm forward-firing gun in the hull, and during gameplay I noticed that the 75mm never seems to fire (ie no muzzle blast), and only the 37mm fires.
I ran tests and the good news is that the 75mm abstractedly fires silently and invisibly buts adds its firepower to the 37mm no matter which way the Grant is facing..:)
Last edited by PoorOldSpike on Thu Mar 12, 2020 10:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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