Why no true LOS?

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Horst
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Why no true LOS?

Post by Horst » Sat Dec 06, 2014 9:39 am

I like how the terrain types affect accuracy by LOS parameters for direct-fire weapons to the point that you can’t shoot through settlements or mountains anymore. This is a very welcomed improvement over the PzC engine.
What I don’t understand though is why the spotting/FoW by units isn’t affected by this too. It would make the terrain factors more easily recognisable by the player if you can’t shoot what you can’t see. It would add more strategies by ambushes and sneaky bypasses if the spotting is only far in open terrain.
I can’t imagine it would still be that difficult to add a true LOS system to the spotting code if it isn’t already there but got disabled. I read that the "Order of Battle - Pacific" game here has such true LOS system too, so it can’t be that impossible to do in a hex-game.

FroBodine
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Re: Why no true LOS?

Post by FroBodine » Sat Dec 06, 2014 5:26 pm

I second this request. This would add a lot to the game!

Galdred
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Re: Why no true LOS?

Post by Galdred » Sat Dec 06, 2014 10:54 pm

yes please! We would just need an overlay with spotted hexes to male things clear.

JimmyC
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Re: Why no true LOS?

Post by JimmyC » Sun Dec 07, 2014 12:07 am

Los is blocked by mountains and cities. So it's implemented there, isn't it?
Or do you mean that for rough terrain and forest etc. you want it to reduce Los by the same percentage as stated that in the terrain description?

Dayta
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Re: Why no true LOS?

Post by Dayta » Sun Dec 07, 2014 1:06 am

JimmyC wrote:Los is blocked by mountains and cities. So it's implemented there, isn't it?
Or do you mean that for rough terrain and forest etc. you want it to reduce Los by the same percentage as stated that in the terrain description?
He means changing spotting so you cannot spot enemies through mountains and rain arty on them. Basically you'd have to go around the mountain to spot the enemy and engage with arty.

Horst
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Re: Why no true LOS?

Post by Horst » Sun Dec 07, 2014 9:55 am

I'm referring to the fog of war and not the accuracy values by the LOS terrain modifiers. Not the best example as screenshot I've found but should do:

http://www.the-artistocrats.com/images/ ... ters3D.jpg

You see that the green tank can spot 2 hexes all around, except directly south where the fog of war still covers the second hex. I don't know if Order of Battle also modifies the accuracy like in our game here, but these LOS-accuracy modifiers could also be used to modify the spotting range that for instance settlements, dense jungle, mountaints, etc. block the hex behind them by fog of war. I hope that's clear now.

crchappell
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Re: Why no true LOS?

Post by crchappell » Wed Dec 10, 2014 3:25 pm

I would say that every unit capable of indirect fire should be able to fire on units beyond visual flat LOS. The implementation should be a function of the type of terrain blocking LOS, the "hide value" of the target unit in that terrain, and the "recon value" of spotter units in the vicinity.

As I recall from what little WH40K lore I learned from the Relic games, most Imperial units have some sort of flying robotic drone surveillance capability, the little flying skull bots and so forth. Everybody in the 40K universe has some sort of psyker that might be able to detect enemy units. By this time in the far dark future I'm certain they'll have at least the aerial/elint capability we have today for locating enemy units.

It's important to remember you can only spot what isn't smart enough to hide effectively from your sensors and you need to actually use the sensors to see anything, so I don't advocate complete battlefield omniscience for air and indirect fire units, but if a spotter unit has LOS on a big mechanized enemy unit in open terrain, artillery or air in range ought to be able to hit it and that seems to be happening in the game already.

That said, while I like this game a lot, its clear it was primarily developed for mobile touchscreen devices and that limits what can be done with the game mechanics. I'm still miffed that air units can't stack over ground units, or even fly over low-lying buildings and so forth. 'bout the only thing they can do is go over water.

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