Total Balance Overhaul, Tyranid Tau Compatible

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DuncanStewart
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Total Balance Overhaul, Tyranid Tau Compatible

Post by DuncanStewart » Sun Mar 22, 2015 8:40 am

This mod is a "realism" overhaul.

I've made thousands of small balance changes (every single unit) for multiplayer games: Units will do exactly what you feel they should do. Assault Marines will defeat guardsmen. Tyranid Warriors will defeat Marines. They will die to Terminators. Genestealers will slice Terminators apart but only if they can get close with a full unit. Infantry are useful again. Heavy weapons teams can defeat tanks but will die if unsupported. The scale of the game has been changed dramatically. The basic unit is now platoon sized. 15-25 for most infantry, 3-5 for tanks. Airplanes come in wings of 4-7. Titans come in ones or twos but have been costed appropriately. You could probably buy an entire IG infantry battalion with fire support and command structure.

I'm going to try to give you a changelog, but there are so many changes I can't mention them all. All unit stats have been changed except for spotting in a few cases.

Infantry is dramatically cheaper. Especially heavy weapons infantry which can be used to destroy armor efficiently. There are other benefits to infantry as area control and efficient artillery defense. Walkers have been improved. Sentinels and Venators are useful. Salamanders and other mid range vehicles are priced appropriately, no more building 10 200 cost salamanders. Tanks are rather expensive, exponentially so the larger you get, but they are still tough and pack great firepower.

Artillery now has longer ranges, more damage and is more fragile. Certain artillery has huge damage potential but doesn't always hit the target. There is a trade-off between reliability, range and damage. (And price). Aerial units happen to very good at reaching these distant artillery pieces. Aircraft has been fixed (maybe), there are fighter-style fighter-bombers and bombers. Bombers have low initiative and are very good against super heavy targets but will get shot down before they can damage lighter troops.

Titans are now battlefield gods, but they are priced to match. The Gargant is worth around 5000 pts. They have generally got the ability to fight both tanks and infantry. Its signature attack, the Gaze of Mork only hits 10% of the time but when it does it will bring almost anything down. i have actually tried hard to introduce an element of luck into the game. In the vanilla version there is almost no luck due to the law of large numbers. Since 45 Orks are taking 180 shots, the end result is always going to be about the same. But now we have 10 marines shooting 20 bolter shells against another 10 marines. A 5 man kill for a 3 man loss is a huge swing in favor of the attacker. I actually think adding luck to the game makes it more FUN and rewards good players who are able to make armies that reduce how much luck there is.

My favorite change is that commander units are actual badassses now. They generally have less guys but now they have large numbers of wounds to keep them going through the fight (sorta Herohammer). A space marine Chapter Commander can lead from the front, His damage out put is not that high so it presents a problem to the enemy. Do they sink enough bullets into him to kill him and not go after high value dmg targets or do they leave him be with his morale aura.

Space Marines

Space Marines have been homogenized slightly. Salamanders and Ultramarines got 10/10 accuracy buffs. Salamanders bonus armor was reduced to 5pts. Ultramarines now have two bonuses, +2 initiative and -25 cost per infantry unit -50 cost per tank unit. It may not seem like a lot but Ultramarines actually have an edge on the other two Chapters in a firefight. All tanks that are supposed to support do so now.

Also, weapons that say 2 heavy bolters are actually 2 heavy bolters now. (Except for a few exceptions where I needed to balance a unit thematically.) There is no weapon that gains power and AP but not extra shots when there are 4 of it.

I would like to highlight some specific units that I think are really cool.

Salamander Firedrakes. These guys were great before but for some reason they were a tactical squad. They are now Terminators who wield dual-heavy flamers. Anyone they attack who is made of organic material or can melt will die.

I have added Psykers to the game. Librarians, Weirdboyz and Zoanthropes now harness the warp to pop the heads of their opponents. (Mechanically this was done very strangely by giving them very weak weapons with insane armor penetration.) No matter who they are fighting they will hurt them. In a Landraider? They don't care.

Dreadnaughts don't pack too much firepower but they are built like rocks. They might not be worth targetting but they can still rip troops to shreds.

Bike squads are much more aggressively priced. Land Raiders are good at picking off damaged units now. They have very high initiative and good weaponry

Watch out for the Baal Predator.

Tyranids

I have to thank Pizza Grenadier for letting me use his Tyranid and Tau mods. I have changed a lot of the stats but the core is all his.

Tyranids are a very unique army, they are generally lacking in ranged firepower compared to the other armies (not entirely) but they have very efficiently priced ground troops. Like in tabletop, lesser creatures require a synapse creature to function. This has been accomplished by giving all non synapse creatures 0 spotting. To make up for this Synapse creatures are now Heroic, meaning the Tyranid horde is not so vulnerable to morale losses. In addition, synapse creatures have large visions ranges, with the Swarmlord being able to see 7 spaces.

Some of my favorite Tyranid units are the spore mines which are cheap and easy to kill, but even if just a few make it into your troop line, you'll regret it. I also like the raveners who ignore terrain and are not visible to units until they move next to them (actually a lot of Tyranid units have some ability to hide).

Tau

The Tau have, as you would expect, massive ranged potential but are very vulnerable in an assault. Their crisis suits can be used as a buffer for your fire warriors and path finders. Sadly there are no Kroot as of now.

Orks

Ork key changes are their tanks are better and their infantry have more variety now. Warbosses and Nobz are viable heavy infantry, Mega Armored Nobz can face off with Terminators and hordes of termagants. Stormboys now have jet packs. The biggest change is probably tankbustas, whose rockits are a little worse than they used to be. They are just an annoyance if you attack them with armor. But they are monsters if you manage to get them to plant the bombs on the tank. Ork units are also very unusual in that their shootiness is disproportional to their armor and points cost. The Trukks can be blown up almost as easily as they can blow you up. Generally Ork Gargants are better value than their tanks. Squiggoths are not to be underestimated. Lootaz are also key fire support, they have high initiative but bulky weapons so make sure you get them before they get you, Ork weapons are generally stronger than Imperial weapons but much less reliable. Overall Zap Guns and Kanons will perform worse than Lascannons and Missile Launchers but you might just get lucky.

There are two files attached. The redux file is if you have already got the Tyranid and Tau graphics files, the large file is if you are installing onto Vanilla. I have done all the hard work for you, the mod is plug&play, just extract to the WH40KArmageddon directory.

Please try it and give me feedback. If the balancing is fun it will be easy to add new races/units. I'd love to add Chaos and Eldar. The Tau balancing is a little rough because I have never read the codex except this week and the super heavy tanks might be overcosted but otherwise it is solid.

It's not balanced for single player. But if it's too hard or easy, just change the difficulty.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/oedljndahfmzd ... x.rar?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/gb5n4jvjhjsm5 ... s.rar?dl=0

If you don't want the tyranids or tau you can just download the redux file by itself.

I just realised I posted an old version of this, so the new one has replaced it.
Last edited by DuncanStewart on Mon Mar 23, 2015 4:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

pizzagrenadier
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Re: Total Balance Overhaul, Tyranid Tau Compatible

Post by pizzagrenadier » Sun Mar 22, 2015 5:44 pm

wow that's a huge amount of work and balancing!! :shock: thanks for the hard work!! :D

btw Dayta did all the stats crunching for the tyranids and tau mods, and that's no small feat, you should thank him. :wink:

Gamebook
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Re: Total Balance Overhaul, Tyranid Tau Compatible

Post by Gamebook » Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:28 pm

I'm also at work further developing my own mod, which is now getting very far from the original data.

One problem I've encountered is that infantry can still kill tanks with small arms like lasguns and shootas, even though I've shoved up the defense rating of the average Leman Russ to 90. How high does defense need to be over a given strength score to make it effectively invulnerable? I'm altering how the game works such that many regular infantry now carry some heavy weapons in addition to their small arms, so I want tanks to be bulletproof.

FuFuHunt3r
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Re: Total Balance Overhaul, Tyranid Tau Compatible

Post by FuFuHunt3r » Sun Mar 22, 2015 11:04 pm

For something to be invulnerable to an attack, the defense (minus armor penetration) must be 50 points over the attack. For something to be invulnerable to the 20 attack lasgun guardsman it needs 70 defense. To be immune to shootas fire you need 95 defenses. Instead of fixing the defense, you may consider reduction of the attack while bringing number of shots up. That way a 5 attack lasgun could not hurt a 55 def. That way they would have a reduced rate of hitting targets with less defense. To keep the number of kills on low defense targets the same you would need to increase the number of shots accordingly.

DuncanStewart
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Re: Total Balance Overhaul, Tyranid Tau Compatible

Post by DuncanStewart » Sun Mar 22, 2015 11:47 pm

Gamebook wrote:I'm also at work further developing my own mod, which is now getting very far from the original data.

One problem I've encountered is that infantry can still kill tanks with small arms like lasguns and shootas, even though I've shoved up the defense rating of the average Leman Russ to 90. How high does defense need to be over a given strength score to make it effectively invulnerable? I'm altering how the game works such that many regular infantry now carry some heavy weapons in addition to their small arms, so I want tanks to be bulletproof.
There is two things to consider. If there are 50 points difference between the weapon and the armor, no damage can occur. But if you overcompensate by giving the low level units too many shots you are going to have other problems . Ork Armor will have to be adjusted upwards or else the Guardsmen will become too effective vs light infantry. You should generally try to keep all small arms fire within a pretty narrow range and use Accuracy as a way of changing it's power. If you change the number of shots you will affect all units with that gun, which you might not want to do. Just as an example, buffing the Lasgun shots on Guards will inadvertently make Rough Riders stronger, and you will have to rebalance them too. But if you change guard accuracy, you can change the strength of the unit in a vacuum.

90 is huge defense by the way. All the anti-tank weapons are going to need to go up a lot.

If anyone wants to test this with me, let me know.

FuFuHunt3r
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Re: Total Balance Overhaul, Tyranid Tau Compatible

Post by FuFuHunt3r » Mon Mar 23, 2015 8:38 am

the Guardsmen will become too effective vs light infantry
If you bring up standard anti infantry "rifles" all up by one shot (lasgun, bolter, shoota …) all usually have 2 shots) you get a 50% damage increase. At the same time, you reduce the damage by 15 so they kill 15% less. Makes for an effective damage increase of 35%. So yes, you are right.
However, that is exactly what I would like. If you bring up all the shots of all the lighter weapons there is no difference in outcome of infantry battles other than that they are over sooner. I still feel the need for that from my experience with multiplayer. As an ork you can try around with a lot of infantry combinations but in the end the most effective thing is spamming tankbustas.
Tankbustas are essential for the ork army as they are the only thing standing up against the stronger IG vehicles. So nerfing them is a bad idea. On the other hand one would counter tankbustas with infantry. But what kind of counter are IG infantry if the tankbustas loose not more than twice as many HP? The moment it is the tankbustas turn, they just move away and fire from a safe distance or go into meele for increased firepower.
I won all my multiplayer battles ever since I go with 50% tankbustas in my army. There is no hard counter for them. That is why I feel infantry anti infantry needs to go up in damage (for all those units) while becoming less effective vs. tanks.

DuncanStewart
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Re: Total Balance Overhaul, Tyranid Tau Compatible

Post by DuncanStewart » Mon Mar 23, 2015 9:39 am

I tried by making their rockets weaker so that armor can kill them at a distance, but I made their bombs stronger, less shots, and medium accuracy. They can't do much to infantry because of the limited shots but they can handle tanks very well. I have found a really great way to use guardsmen is just to pin down the tankbustas. If you get in their way, they can't approach the tanks in melee.

Lootaz should also be able to kill tanks effectively from cover. In my ideal situation, infantry should be the best counter to anti-tank infantry, who beat tanks, who overpower regular infantry. Artillery should help in every situation and flyers should be able to easily defeat unsupported artillery..

MadLuddite
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Re: Total Balance Overhaul, Tyranid Tau Compatible

Post by MadLuddite » Mon Mar 23, 2015 11:22 pm

FuFuHunt3r wrote:
the Guardsmen will become too effective vs light infantry
If you bring up standard anti infantry "rifles" all up by one shot (lasgun, bolter, shoota …) all usually have 2 shots) you get a 50% damage increase. At the same time, you reduce the damage by 15 so they kill 15% less. Makes for an effective damage increase of 35%. So yes, you are right.
If you reduce damage by 15% and add one shot, then small arms will be about as effective against equal-defense infantry. They'll damage 35% of the time instead of 50%, but the only more shot means an overall effectiveness of about 52.5%.

However, they'll do much less against higher-defense enemies. A tank with normally 30 higher defense, which took damage 20% of the time now takes damage 5% of the time.

FuFuHunt3r
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Re: Total Balance Overhaul, Tyranid Tau Compatible

Post by FuFuHunt3r » Tue Mar 24, 2015 9:03 am

I didn't put much thought into the exact numbers there. My bad. :oops:

I just feel that small arms is to effectiver vs. tanks and penetrating fire is too effective vs. infantry. Bringing the damage of small arms down and the shots up could fix that.

MadLuddite
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Re: Total Balance Overhaul, Tyranid Tau Compatible

Post by MadLuddite » Wed Mar 25, 2015 9:43 pm

FuFuHunt3r wrote:I didn't put much thought into the exact numbers there. My bad. :oops:

I just feel that small arms is to effectiver vs. tanks and penetrating fire is too effective vs. infantry. Bringing the damage of small arms down and the shots up could fix that.
I agree completely. I do wish it was possible for a high-damage single attack (like a Deathstrike missile) to damage multiple enemies, though.

B4nd1T
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Re: Total Balance Overhaul, Tyranid Tau Compatible

Post by B4nd1T » Fri Mar 27, 2015 6:09 am

Yeah i allways wonder how that would look like: a gang of 40 arcboys coming down a street, a salvo of missiles rising behind a mountain and in a ballisic curve coming straight at the orcs. The orcs stop ot stair at the missiles and than 5 of them are sqautted flat by the missiles. Eventually one of them takes a sidestep and survives. Good for the orcs weapons in Armageddon don't explode ^^

VoidDragon
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Re: Total Balance Overhaul, Tyranid Tau Compatible

Post by VoidDragon » Sun Apr 05, 2015 11:48 am

The scale of the game has been changed dramatically. The basic unit is now platoon sized.
How do you do that? I wish to make mod, in which you command regiment, but I am thinking about scale.

deranzo
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Re: Total Balance Overhaul, Tyranid Tau Compatible

Post by deranzo » Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:33 am

can someone upload files again?
it is a good day to die

Vulpes_Inculta
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Re: Total Balance Overhaul, Tyranid Tau Compatible

Post by Vulpes_Inculta » Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:19 am

Yes please!

lpydzybf
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Re: Total Balance Overhaul, Tyranid Tau Compatible

Post by lpydzybf » Sun Dec 10, 2017 7:32 am

Hello guys, I registered to this site just for this mod, because it doesnt seem to be online anymore, and that's really sad since the modder spent time creating it. If anyone still has the files, could you please contact me PM ? I've sent a message to the modder, but unfortunately, his last connexion to the site was on july 2016... I'm playing vanilla Armageddon, with DLCs, but no other mods. Can anyone share ? Please. Someone might have a way to contact the modder maybe ? I think it's such a waste that this mod isnt available anymore for the players... Thanks in advance for any replies ! Cheers :)

deranzo
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Re: Total Balance Overhaul, Tyranid Tau Compatible

Post by deranzo » Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:02 pm

lpydzybf wrote:Hello guys, I registered to this site just for this mod, because it doesnt seem to be online anymore, and that's really sad since the modder spent time creating it. If anyone still has the files, could you please contact me PM ? I've sent a message to the modder, but unfortunately, his last connexion to the site was on july 2016... I'm playing vanilla Armageddon, with DLCs, but no other mods. Can anyone share ? Please. Someone might have a way to contact the modder maybe ? I think it's such a waste that this mod isnt available anymore for the players... Thanks in advance for any replies ! Cheers :)
Hello. I have mod files.
Also, did you read latest optional version of the game? Its in community update page, check it out. I have added few new features to the game. And check my mod page too. I somewhat frequently update mod with new units. And I will update it soon with new Primaris units, vehicles and walkers: http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtop ... 26&t=76966
it is a good day to die

Aekar
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Re: Total Balance Overhaul, Tyranid Tau Compatible

Post by Aekar » Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:03 am

Congratulations on this mod!
Question: why is this mod not in the Mods and Scenario design forum?
Because of that, I missed it... :/

Also, Ipy is right, if someone has a save that would be great.

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