Unit Navigator Tool

Order of Battle is a series of operational WW2 games starting with the Pacific War and then on to Europe!

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sthanno
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Re: Unit Navigator Tool

Post by sthanno » Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:09 pm

The devs should consider adding this or a modded :wink: version to the game.
I fifth that motion. ;)

I can't get the marines to come up. I found them under faction, but all I get is landing craft and the like. I've tried various combinations of 'type' and 'category' selections, to no avail.

I can't rant and rave enough about this tool. Major Kudos to the creator! If this tool came with the download of the game, upon seeing it I would be that much more sure that I would like the game. I'm in the camp that believes there are some things the player shouldn't know about how the game works--some of the underlying mechanics should remain mysterious--but knowing the stats of your own units oughtn't be one of those things.

I see the devs made every effort to get unit stats to the player in-game, but there's only so much that a visual interface can handle. The interface as it is now is very clean and approachable imo, deceptively so. A seperate encyclopedia like UNT is in my opinion exactly what the doctor ordered.

Props to the Aristocrats for a fabulous game and props to mojko! Thanks for making this game even more enjoyable! Thank you!

Mojko
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Re: Unit Navigator Tool

Post by Mojko » Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:34 pm

New version released: 2018-01-05

- added support for explicit carrier unit (some units are allowed to land only on specific units, not generic unit types, for example BF 109T)
sthanno wrote: I can't get the marines to come up. I found them under faction, but all I get is landing craft and the like. I've tried various combinations of 'type' and 'category' selections, to no avail.
Try visiting the page here, I found them without any trouble.
Author and maintainer of Unit Navigator Tool for Order Of Battle (http://mfendek.byethost16.com/)

sthanno
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Re: Unit Navigator Tool

Post by sthanno » Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:10 pm

Yep, thank you, I see it now. I didnt' see the Next/Previous buttons.

steevodeevo
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Re: Unit Navigator Tool

Post by steevodeevo » Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:57 pm

sthanno wrote:
The devs should consider adding this or a modded :wink: version to the game.
I fifth that motion. ;)

I can't get the marines to come up. I found them under faction, but all I get is landing craft and the like. I've tried various combinations of 'type' and 'category' selections, to no avail.

I can't rant and rave enough about this tool. Major Kudos to the creator! If this tool came with the download of the game, upon seeing it I would be that much more sure that I would like the game. I'm in the camp that believes there are some things the player shouldn't know about how the game works--some of the underlying mechanics should remain mysterious--but knowing the stats of your own units oughtn't be one of those things.

I see the devs made every effort to get unit stats to the player in-game, but there's only so much that a visual interface can handle. The interface as it is now is very clean and approachable imo, deceptively so. A seperate encyclopedia like UNT is in my opinion exactly what the doctor ordered.

Props to the Aristocrats for a fabulous game and props to mojko! Thanks for making this game even more enjoyable! Thank you!
Sthanno makes an interesting point. OoB:s almost unique IP is 'depth without clutter'. I play a great many tactical and Ops level wargames, including some with overwhelming reams of data, but I rarely find myself finding this lacking in OoB. I enjoy both approaches and make decisions on what to play based on mood and available time.

Indeed sometimes I find OoB more immersive and believable, depending upon the Scenario quality, than some of the games that show off their depth of unit data and combat calculations, complexity doesn't always equate to accuracy and realism.

That said I'm sure the Artistocrats agonise over what extra data to show, if any, each time they do an expansion. For me, not being able to understand things due to data that isn't shown at all (the torpedo thing) has to be a no - brainer add? If however you can work out how to understand the combat outcomes from the visible unit stats (perm and variable) and terrain modifiers then less so, as with travel distances, as long as the interactions of said stats is clearly presented (assault, shock, etc), any more when it can be assessed by the player is clutter.

Which is why I love this tool. It presents data in a way that enhances understanding of the game mechanics using data that is already available in the game but a challenge to use due to the focus on minimalist screen design, should you choose to do so.

Hence all The Artistocrats have to do to show how elegantly simple and brilliant OoB's design is is to reference the existence of this tool as a link in their product start screen, as not everyone trawls the forums. I guess then there may be some challenges with maintenance and accuracy to overcome but surely not unsurmountable? Reminds me a bit of what Richard Garriott's development company did recently with the world map tool for Shroud of the Avatar. At first they linked to it in game then took it over so they could develop and maintain.

Mojko
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Re: Unit Navigator Tool

Post by Mojko » Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:41 pm

New version released: 2018-01-07

- unit data is now cached in local storage (should speed up application and lower amount of data transferred)
Author and maintainer of Unit Navigator Tool for Order Of Battle (http://mfendek.byethost16.com/)

harley9699
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Re: Unit Navigator Tool

Post by harley9699 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:24 pm

This absolutely fantastic, man. Great job! I will definitely be using this.

Ichthyic
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Re: Unit Navigator Tool

Post by Ichthyic » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:14 am

Erik2 wrote:
sthanno wrote:The U.S. Marines don't seem to show up under the type 'Infantry.' Where are they hiding?
Select faction marine_corps.
Then you need to turn to page two for the Marine units.

BTW, I really like this tool. The devs should consider adding this or a modded :wink: version to the game.
seconded, but adding it in game might be complicated. maybe just as a standalone app that goes in the "manuals" directory?

Erik2
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Re: Unit Navigator Tool

Post by Erik2 » Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:47 pm

Ichthyic wrote:
Erik2 wrote:
sthanno wrote:The U.S. Marines don't seem to show up under the type 'Infantry.' Where are they hiding?
Select faction marine_corps.
Then you need to turn to page two for the Marine units.

BTW, I really like this tool. The devs should consider adding this or a modded :wink: version to the game.
seconded, but adding it in game might be complicated. maybe just as a standalone app that goes in the "manuals" directory?
A link in the community content box on the main menu would be fine for me.

Horst
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Re: Unit Navigator Tool

Post by Horst » Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:18 pm

Here's a list of all working unit traits in units.csv that I know and have found. There are some other traits that only work in the classes.txt file but not in the units.csv and vice versa, but shouldn't matter.
It would be very useful to have an error-checker for future game updates if your database can somehow read-out the units.csv file. I'm not really up to spellcheck all the vanilla files everytime. It's possible that the future brings new traits that the database should spit-out as unknowns. I'd like to know that too without going through all the many units.

airborne
armouredCargo
autoEntrench
banzai
bridgeBuilder
broadside
camouflaged
carrierPlane
concealable
constructionSite
container
defaultTransportNaval
defaultTransportRail
defensive
defensiveFire
dogfighter
entrenchSupport
explosives
fieldArmour
firstStrike
fixedBase
fixedFacing
fixedFire
floatPlane
groundAttack
guerrilla
hangar
hardToHit
healer
heavyTreaded
hexRepairer
highRiskReturn
homebound
interceptor
kamikaze
landingCraft
lightFreight
lightTreaded
limitlessFuel
marines
minelayer
minesweeper
nightFighter
noAAFire
noBroadside
noCapture
noEditor
noEntrench
noPurchase
noRepair
noSupply
noUpgrade
noWreck
noZOC
precisionStrike
quickEntrench
quickRetreat
rmPurchase
rotateFormation
singleShot
skPurchase
slowRepair
sonar
specOps
staticFire
submergable
submerged
supplyResilient
swimmer
torpedo
torpedoImmune
transportAir
transportNaval
transportRequired
tunnel
tunneling
unreliable
weakFlanks

Mojko
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Re: Unit Navigator Tool

Post by Mojko » Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:37 pm

New version released: 2018-01-14

- unit upgrade groups are now available

Ever wondered which units can be upgraded via the "discount upgrade" to get the juicy RP discounts? Wonder no more as this information is now available! Just click on a faction flag on a unit and units that are grouped together in a discount upgrade group will be displayed. Never lose your RPs to poor unit upgrade planning again.

- unit switch links added

Some units may be switched to other units and now it's possible to see this information. Links are available in the same format as unit transport (i.e. direct links to units).
Horst wrote:Here's a list of all working unit traits in units.csv that I know and have found.
Thanks for help, but I'm afraid we need a developer from Aristocrats to clarify the white-list to allow the implementation of a reliable data validation feature. Some traits work in very strange way, for example "spotter" trait is inverted "limited awareness" trait. I need to clearly understand all trait rules before I can implement the validation.
Author and maintainer of Unit Navigator Tool for Order Of Battle (http://mfendek.byethost16.com/)

13obo
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Re: Unit Navigator Tool

Post by 13obo » Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:13 pm

Amazing- this new feature (and all the other ones) is basically everything I had requested like two weeks earlier. Given that the game has been around for so many year, I think this is a soulmate coincidence! Beers on me if we ever meet.

Also, well done!
Last edited by 13obo on Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Horst
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Re: Unit Navigator Tool

Post by Horst » Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:17 pm

Mojko, I've modified the game thoroughly since the beginning, so I know my way around in the game files. I have tested almost all traits in the game and know how they work. And if not then I'm going to figure it out. If you are looking for a description of some traits then check out all language files so far: english.txt to english11.txt
Not all traits in the game have in-game descriptions though.

The Spotter trait only works in the classes.txt file.
Spotter is for units to counter the camouflage trait. Infantry and recon units have this trait, but it strangely most ship classes can also reveal camouflaged units. That means that camouflaged units can sneak upon units without spotter trait without being detected. Other unit classes rather only detect camouflaged units when rumbling right into the same hex.

If you rather like to wait for official explanation of all the 78+ traits, then enjoy waiting, otherwise make a list of unknown traits, in particular those who you don’t find in language-files and can't make a rhyme of it. I’m going to answer all unknowns then when I got the time.

koopanique
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Re: Unit Navigator Tool

Post by koopanique » Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:41 pm

Wow the amount of work and time and dedication to make this tool must have been immense. Thank you very much for this tool!

Mojko
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Re: Unit Navigator Tool

Post by Mojko » Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:00 pm

Horst wrote:Mojko, I've modified the game thoroughly since the beginning, so I know my way around in the game files. I have tested almost all traits in the game and know how they work. And if not then I'm going to figure it out. If you are looking for a description of some traits then check out all language files so far: english.txt to english11.txt
Not all traits in the game have in-game descriptions though.

The Spotter trait only works in the classes.txt file.
Spotter is for units to counter the camouflage trait. Infantry and recon units have this trait, but it strangely most ship classes can also reveal camouflaged units. That means that camouflaged units can sneak upon units without spotter trait without being detected. Other unit classes rather only detect camouflaged units when rumbling right into the same hex.

If you rather like to wait for official explanation of all the 78+ traits, then enjoy waiting, otherwise make a list of unknown traits, in particular those who you don’t find in language-files and can't make a rhyme of it. I’m going to answer all unknowns then when I got the time.
Thanks for clarification, I'll try to implement the validation feature with the data you have provided. Current version of the tool already loads the description of traits, however I had to manually match the traits with the descriptions. I would greatly appreciate if you could check if my trait pairing is correct as I'm not sure about multiple cases.

Please have a look at this page. The trait paring tries to match internal trait name (on the left) and the name that is used to identify trait in the language file (on the right).
koopanique wrote:Wow the amount of work and time and dedication to make this tool must have been immense. Thank you very much for this tool!
Actually, I have only spent about 7 dev-days on this tool and the complexity lies not with the implementation, but rather in the understanding of OOB game data files format.
Last edited by Mojko on Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:56 am, edited 2 times in total.
Author and maintainer of Unit Navigator Tool for Order Of Battle (http://mfendek.byethost16.com/)

GabeKnight
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Re: Unit Navigator Tool

Post by GabeKnight » Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:03 pm

suggestions:

- the battleship class stats are quite incomprehensible like that, maybe you could consolidate the stats of the "primary guns" into one tab?
- maybe you could add a page counter (i.e. "1/2") to the bottom navigation bar also

Mojko
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Re: Unit Navigator Tool

Post by Mojko » Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:25 am

GabeKnight wrote:suggestions:

- the battleship class stats are quite incomprehensible like that, maybe you could consolidate the stats of the "primary guns" into one tab?
- maybe you could add a page counter (i.e. "1/2") to the bottom navigation bar also
Thanks for good suggestions :)

New version released: 2018-01-18

- pagination information added to bottom navigation bar
- unit switch action links now have the same icon as in game
- primary guns naval attack is now displayed as a separate attribute and can be compared the same way as other attributes

Looking forward to more feedback :)
Author and maintainer of Unit Navigator Tool for Order Of Battle (http://mfendek.byethost16.com/)

Horst
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Re: Unit Navigator Tool

Post by Horst » Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:37 am

Following additional traits have an in-game description that I have found so far, but not all of them can be added as traits to the units.csv or classes.txt file. Some traits derive their function from other unit variables or only apply certain animation behaviors which aren’t that interesting to players.


noEntrench => No Entrenchment
noCapture => Fleeting Presence
floatPlane => Seaplane
hardToHit => Difficult Target
slowRepair => Limited Replacements
supplyResilient (currently unused) => Supply Resilient
(aircraft with cruiser/battleship "carrier"-support) => Catapult-Launched
(aircraft with switch-ability "bomb") => Bomb Racks
(aircraft with switch-ability "ohka") => Ohka Carrier
(aircraft with switch-ability "torpedo") => Torpedo Capacity
(ground unit with "fuel" value >0) => Well Supplied
(ship with "torpedo" values) => Torpedo Launcher
(ship with switch-ability "weapon") => Big Gun Barrage
(unit (class) without "spotter" trait) => Limited Awareness
(unit with "blast" value >0) = Splash Damage
(unit with "cargo" value >0) => Cargo Capacity: #
(unit with "steps" value >1) => Flexible Pathing
(unit with "chassis" id=14) => Mountain Gun
(unit with switch-ability "amphibious") => Amphibious
(unit with switch-ability "anti_air") => Anti-Air Mode
(unit with switch-ability "anti_tank") => Anti-Tank Mode
(unit with switch-ability "artillery") => Artillery Mode
(unit with switch-ability "rail") => Rail Setup
(unit with switch-ability "road") => Off-Rail Setup

I don't know if you actually need every single trait info, including all class-traits, for a unit-viewer that are normally not displayed in the game.
For example, I see you have listed Tunneling in your unit-viewer which was sloppily copied only to few units around the factions. This ability is normally not shown in the game. I guess it wasn’t that important to bother with in the original campaigns so far.
What is rather time-comsuming to check if all unit types share the same traits and also sometimes difficult to know what is intended to miss and what not.

GabeKnight
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Re: Unit Navigator Tool

Post by GabeKnight » Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:23 pm

Mojko wrote:Thanks for good suggestions :)
Oh man, you're super fast, and even new icons. Thanks.

Mojko
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Re: Unit Navigator Tool

Post by Mojko » Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:32 am

New version released: 2018-01-19

- internal unit traits are no longer displayed
- several unit traits corrected
- missing unit traits added
- unit traits are now sorted alphabetically

Big thanks to Horst for clarifying how unit traits work.

@Horst If you want you can review my trait changes on this page.

Feedback is appreciated.
Author and maintainer of Unit Navigator Tool for Order Of Battle (http://mfendek.byethost16.com/)

bru888
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Re: Unit Navigator Tool

Post by bru888 » Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:33 pm

I have to admit, despite my initial pessimism, this tool is amazing. The trouble was, I did not want to like it because if I did, then I would become dependent upon it. That in turn would depend upon how long the designer had the interest and stamina to maintain it.

This has nothing to do with the fellow himself who, while I greatly admire his handiwork, I don't know from a hole in the ground. It's just that in this fuzzy world of online gaming, things are rather ephemeral, you know? When I have doubts about the staying power of the game designers themselves, how can I trust that of a forum member?

Heh, it's a fault of mine in terms of I.T. and the internet. When I really like something, I look for permanence and guarantee. Neither are ever forthcoming. :wink:
- Bru

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