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Re: Order of Battle: Red Storm has been announced

Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:57 pm
by bebro
Well, subs haven't been touched, as they play not much of a role in new DLC. Do you have a specific change in mind? Thing is I kinda agree, but we need to see how any change would affect existing content (like KM).

Re: Order of Battle: Red Storm has been announced

Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 4:58 pm
by Erik2
In my opinion, subs should either hit hard or miss the target altogehter. Strength nibbling should not be part of the equation.
Maybe they should be able to launch 2 torpedo spreads before reloading.
They should be very vulnerable if attacked by depth charges, but harder to spot (even with sonar) when submerged.
If this changes existing content like the KM campaign, so be it. Change the scenarios :wink:

Re: Order of Battle: Red Storm has been announced

Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 5:01 pm
by bru888
As we discussed someplace else, spotting surfaced subs from the air (only certain planes with a certain trait, I think you or Shards said) would be good, balanced by a bit more offensive punch which I would imagine would be just a tweak in units.csv. Not enough impact to damage any DLC or custom content, I don't think.

Heh, Erik beat me to that punch. :wink:

Re: Order of Battle: Red Storm has been announced

Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 5:18 pm
by Erik2
It is odd how some of us care so much for subs, or Zündapps...

Re: Order of Battle: Red Storm has been announced

Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 1:27 am
by LandMarine47
bebro wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:57 pm
Well, subs haven't been touched, as they play not much of a role in new DLC. Do you have a specific change in mind? Thing is I kinda agree, but we need to see how any change would affect existing content (like KM).
In general I think subs just need to have an entire patch devoted to them. I think all other aspects if Naval Combat is fine in OOB, but subs are really a nuisance rather than a very real threat in most scenarios. They just do not do enough damage to even very lightly (or not even armored units) in most aspects. While they should not be able to sink capital ships in one go, they should at least be able to to be used more like they were used in real life, to harass and potentially sink already damaged or vulnerable targets. Torpedoes are woefully under powered, when they should be as effective (and personally I think better than) torpedo bombers. I think all this was discussed in another post, but I am hopeful to see some love for subs anytime in the near future. Although I do understand how a rework would affect current scenarios, especially in KM's case (never did beat that campaign, I find it to be the hardest one OOB has to offer.)

Re: Order of Battle: Red Storm has been announced

Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 10:43 am
by bebro
Looking through unit stats - what if we actually adjust ship's torpedo defense stats instead of fiddling around with various torpedo attack settings. This could achieve what we want, and should allow to differ nicely.

BBs would still be difficult to sink (gotta pump lotsa torpedoes into a Yamato class etc.) but say transports, supply ships could be made easier targets, with DD, CA, CV somewhat in between depending on type.

This would also effect DDs or aircraft, but after all torpedoes from planes or DDs would be effective vs. those TPs etc. too, and less vs. highly protected warships.

I gotta test it obvsly. But overall I still rather leave it for next beta or post RS patch, as there is plenty of stuff to do for Red Storm still.

Re: Order of Battle: Red Storm has been announced

Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 4:22 pm
by bru888
Sounds like a plan. Please don't forget to consider aircraft spotting surfaced submarines from say, 0 to +1 hex distance. I know that I sound like a broken record but you should see the gyration that I just went through to "even the playing field" in an historical situation where a sub was present against a cruiser and a sloop (i.e., gunboat). Absolutely defenceless, as even air patrol could not spot the sub when surfaced. Had to depend on the AI to surface right next to one of the ships, or blindly stumbling upon it, which is absurd. My workaround did the trick but it involved referencing what actually happened in a popup message (IRL, the cruiser's seaplane did get lucky and disabled the sub), followed by a perpetual "Reveal Unit" so that the sub could no longer hide. Heh, I would say this gambit has very limited applicability! :)

Re: Order of Battle: Red Storm has been announced

Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 6:03 am
by SirAllan
I used to be a beta tester - but cant see how to apply this time - where do I find it?

Re: Order of Battle: Red Storm has been announced

Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 6:15 am
by GabeKnight
SirAllan wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 6:03 am
I used to be a beta tester - but cant see how to apply this time - where do I find it?
First post of this thread, right under the lowest pic.... click on the "here"... :)

Re: Order of Battle: Red Storm has been announced

Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:31 am
by SirAllan
Thx Gabe as usual you have very sharp eyes :wink:
I totally missed that :oops:

Re: Order of Battle: Red Storm has been announced

Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 4:51 pm
by SirAllan
Damn, I somehow didnt qualify to be a betatester this time, cause I havnt got any e-mail yet :cry:

Re: Order of Battle: Red Storm has been announced

Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 4:56 pm
by bebro
Could be there's another wave later (I don't handle thsi).