Destroying bridges with Strategic Bombers

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LynxCom
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Destroying bridges with Strategic Bombers

Post by LynxCom » Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:52 pm

As the title says, it would be nice to have an ability to destroy bridges (like engs or paras) with strategic bombers. A small feature but it would bring more strategic depth. Of course it should cost some resources to do so. What do think, guys?

prattaa
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Re: Destroying bridges with Strategic Bombers

Post by prattaa » Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:36 am

Interesting idea and I think it could create some new tactics though level bombing at the time was not particularly accurate. The Germans tried repeatedly to bomb the Remagen bridge without much success until the combined effects of all the attacks against from air, land, & water eventually triggered a collapse.

I keep notes as I play through campaigns on gameplay improvements and such. I actually have a note to give strategic bombers the ability to bombard any hex at RP cost like artillery. So when you know something is hiding in that forest or a town that doesn't have supply value and it needs to be bombed.

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Re: Destroying bridges with Strategic Bombers

Post by Mascarenhas » Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:32 am

I support this proposition too!

GabeKnight
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Re: Destroying bridges with Strategic Bombers

Post by GabeKnight » Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:22 am

prattaa wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:36 am
I actually have a note to give strategic bombers the ability to bombard any hex at RP cost like artillery. So when you know something is hiding in that forest or a town that doesn't have supply value and it needs to be bombed.
Good idea, but... no, good idea! I may test this in my mod.
Thanks! :)

bebro
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Re: Destroying bridges with Strategic Bombers

Post by bebro » Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:27 am

It's a nice idea indeed, but also needs to be considered carefully as it offers another way to slow or even block AI movement (additionally to mines or land units destroying bridges), which is something that may end up being unwanted or even exploitish.

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Re: Destroying bridges with Strategic Bombers

Post by w_michael » Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:31 pm

There is a documentary on Netflix called Thunderbolt, which shows the bombing runs in Italy of a P-47 Thunderbolt squadron during WW2. Their mission was to bomb strategic bridges north of the front line in order to deny supplies and reinforcements to the Axis troops.

I think that tactical bombers would be better suited to be bridge bombers than strategic bombers.
William Michael, Pike & Shot Campaigns & Field of Glory II enthusiast

GabeKnight
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Re: Destroying bridges with Strategic Bombers

Post by GabeKnight » Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:52 am

Just to be clear, I meant the "bombard" ability added to the bombers, which kind of works fine inside the mod.

The idea of strat. or tac. bombers destroying bridges maybe a bit too radical IMO. Imagine 12-or-more hex ranged engineers, unaffected by territory or supply, behind enemy lines. Destroying a bridge is a very effective way to slow down the enemy advance. If at all, it should be a spec and the use should be really expensive and maybe even with some random chance involved to miss (like paras).

LynxCom
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Re: Destroying bridges with Strategic Bombers

Post by LynxCom » Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:28 am

GabeKnight wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:52 am
Just to be clear, I meant the "bombard" ability added to the bombers, which kind of works fine inside the mod.

The idea of strat. or tac. bombers destroying bridges maybe a bit too radical IMO. Imagine 12-or-more hex ranged engineers, unaffected by territory or supply, behind enemy lines. Destroying a bridge is a very effective way to slow down the enemy advance. If at all, it should be a spec and the use should be really expensive and maybe even with some random chance involved to miss (like paras).
I agree with bombard ability for bombers.

Dunno if destroying bridges with bombers would be so radical and overpowered. The reasons are:
1. It is a prize for air supremacy. You need to control air to send a bomber to an enemy rear without risking high casualities. For example Burma Road campaing- air combat is brutal in this one, so you will think twice if you send a bomber for this mission.
2. A Bomber on this mission needs to spend some turns to travel and destroy a bridge. But these turns could be used to bombard enemy units too. So... you need to think what´s more effective in your current situation. How will you invest your bomber?
3. Key bridge(s) in enemy rear could be protected by engineers, seabees etc. And they can rebuild a bridge immediatelly in next turn.
4. Agree with random chance to miss.
5. Agree with maybe it should be a specialization.

Shards
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Re: Destroying bridges with Strategic Bombers

Post by Shards » Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:28 pm

Could you do this with triggers?

Strategic bombers will always reduce supply on a Hex. So if you put a supply point on your bridge and then had a trigger that destroyed the bridge if it's supply dropped, that would be an equivalent functionality?

(obvs would only work if the designer set it to work like that)

(though, tbh, when testing the Hex Supply trigger, I'm not ENTIRELY sure I know how it works...)

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Re: Destroying bridges with Strategic Bombers

Post by Erik2 » Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:01 pm

Shards wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:28 pm
Could you do this with triggers?

Strategic bombers will always reduce supply on a Hex. So if you put a supply point on your bridge and then had a trigger that destroyed the bridge if it's supply dropped, that would be an equivalent functionality?

(obvs would only work if the designer set it to work like that)

(though, tbh, when testing the Hex Supply trigger, I'm not ENTIRELY sure I know how it works...)
That may be a nice idea (if it works).
You could set a certain supply level and when it reaches zero, the bridge blows.
Major bridge = high supply, minor bridge = low supply

Shards
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Re: Destroying bridges with Strategic Bombers

Post by Shards » Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:08 pm

Had to run some tests on this, but seem to have figured it out.

Currently, the Check Hex Supply test has a visual bug in that Percentage and Value are inverted (so clicking Percentage will do a Value test and vice versa).

With that in mind however, it's pretty easy to do a test for a supply location on a bridge and set a target supply to reduce it to for it to blow up. Even cleverer is that Engineers restore supply, so you could mimic them "repairing" the bridge :D
BridgeBlow.jpg
BridgeBlow.jpg (67.31 KiB) Viewed 139 times

Erik2
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Re: Destroying bridges with Strategic Bombers

Post by Erik2 » Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:55 pm

The engineers will probably repair the bridge the good old fashion way.
But I guess you could set up a supply/bridge-loop if the bridge is a major objective in the scenario. like Nijmegen.

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Re: Destroying bridges with Strategic Bombers

Post by GabeKnight » Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:50 am

Shards wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:08 pm
Currently, the Check Hex Supply test has a visual bug in that Percentage and Value are inverted (so clicking Percentage will do a Value test and vice versa).
Yes, one of the issues that must have been reported ages ago, because it's been fixed in my mod for a long time now... :roll:
Erik2 wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:55 pm
The engineers will probably repair the bridge the good old fashion way.
I know the AI code hasn't been "tampered" with for a long time it seems, but how about giving the AI engineers the ability to construct pontoon bridges? Or at least repair those that have been destroyed. Only with the "move to hex" order, not when static defending. Or add a checkbox "repair bridges" to the AI tasks.

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