20mm Flak 38

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terminator
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20mm Flak 38

Post by terminator » Mon Aug 24, 2020 7:09 pm

Recently, the zündapp was unlocked in the Editor. Will this also be the case for the 20mm Flak 38 ?

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Juansana
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Re: 20mm Flak 38

Post by Juansana » Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:28 pm

I have a question about this. How can I update this unit to SdKfz 250?
And why can't you switch all anti-aircraft guns to anti-tank?

Mascarenhas
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Re: 20mm Flak 38

Post by Mascarenhas » Tue Aug 25, 2020 4:33 pm

In fact, under GK Mod, this switch is available for long now.

Juansana
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Re: 20mm Flak 38

Post by Juansana » Wed Aug 26, 2020 1:49 am

Mascarenhas wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 4:33 pm
In fact, under GK Mod, this switch is available for long now.
I know, but actually it belongs in the game and not only in a mod

GabeKnight
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Re: 20mm Flak 38

Post by GabeKnight » Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:03 am

You're right, and I love my AT-class... :mrgreen:

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bebro
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Re: 20mm Flak 38

Post by bebro » Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:25 am

We don't intend to make every AA switchable.

Roles/classes are an important part of the game. Yes, it's nice for the player, and the AI does switch too so there is no prob from this point. Which is why we do it for selected units indeed.

But this also means players can more easily wrong-foot AI units that are supposed to provide cover to other units.

Blurring those roles for every unit (or at least every of a certain class) is not desirable from a design POV.

Mascarenhas
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Re: 20mm Flak 38

Post by Mascarenhas » Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:47 am

I respectfully have to disagree. In historical context, AA guns are always used as land-target weapon, in circumstances, not only the heavy ones, as Germany's Flak 88 or Japanese 90mm, but the lighter ones too. As an ersatz for the real thing, OOB should also reproduce this ability too. As community modders have proven, this should not be a real difficulty for the official designers.

GabeKnight
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Re: 20mm Flak 38

Post by GabeKnight » Wed Aug 26, 2020 12:52 pm

bebro wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:25 am
But this also means players can more easily wrong-foot AI units that are supposed to provide cover to other units.
:lol: Yeah, that's true for sure. Sometimes it's working against them, sometimes for them...

The last weeks I've almost exclusively replayed the whole German trilogy with my mod and besides my Armoured Train/Schienengeschütz, I found very little use for AA units in general - modded or not. Very weak enemy air resistance in the first two DLCs and almost a fighter-only airforce in the last DLC because of the Allied numerical superiority, still with only one core-AA.

But I knew all that before. I've made my mod mostly for (Eriks) custom content, where it all plays out differently.

PS: It was really strange to play many maps in Germany/Endsieg with no tracks there? I'm no historian, but even then the major cities would have had some rail connections, I guess...?

terminator
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Re: 20mm Flak 38

Post by terminator » Wed Aug 26, 2020 3:13 pm

The fact that a unit has the ability to switch is a characteristic that I take into account a lot when buying a unit. It’s almost like buying 2 units for the price of 1 unit.

bebro
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Re: 20mm Flak 38

Post by bebro » Wed Aug 26, 2020 4:42 pm

GabeKnight wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 12:52 pm
PS: It was really strange to play many maps in Germany/Endsieg with no tracks there? I'm no historian, but even then the major cities would have had some rail connections, I guess...?
They have for sure, but if rail tp should play a role in those battles is another question :)

Rail TP was still important in strategic terms, but the zoomed in scale of many battles in OOB means you could take trains to move happily across the actual battlefield in some cases and not - as it was actually used - to bring troops to the front, which would then advance fighting.

Not to mention that in 1944/45 Ger rail TP was suffering heavily from Allied air supremacy.

It's probably not terribly consistent in all of OOBs content admittedly - personally I think rail is fine to have/use in battles with bigger maps that cover a larger area.

bebro
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Re: 20mm Flak 38

Post by bebro » Wed Aug 26, 2020 4:44 pm

terminator wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 3:13 pm
The fact that a unit has the ability to switch is a characteristic that I take into account a lot when buying a unit. It’s almost like buying 2 units for the price of 1 unit.
As for the 20mm I don't have a prob when it's made avaialble generally, this would need a specific change tho like done on the bike.

GabeKnight
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Re: 20mm Flak 38

Post by GabeKnight » Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:16 pm

I guess it's too late to cry over spilled milk, but it felt a bit inconsistent, that's all. I had the Armoured Train since Yugoslavia/Blitzkrieg in my core and could deploy it in every scen since then but two or three in Endsieg. Yeah, well...

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