Tell me about Difficulty

Order of Battle is a series of operational WW2 games starting with the Pacific War and then on to Europe!

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Epperaliant
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Re: Tell me about Difficulty

Post by Epperaliant » Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:39 pm

Here you go, straight from the unit navigation tool. What's that sword icon and why it doesn't show in-game?

Image

kondi754
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Re: Tell me about Difficulty

Post by kondi754 » Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:27 pm

Epperaliant wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:39 pm
Here you go, straight from the unit navigation tool. What's that sword icon and why it doesn't show in-game?

Image
close attack vs soft and hard targets

prestidigitation
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Re: Tell me about Difficulty

Post by prestidigitation » Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:59 pm

Epperaliant wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:39 pm
Here you go, straight from the unit navigation tool. What's that sword icon and why it doesn't show in-game?

Image
The value without the sword is the 0% cover value, the value with the sword is 100% cover value. Both display in game, but under the same icon.

BTW the only tile I’ve seen with 100% cover is city tiles, village, town, forest, difficult terrain give much less.

Remember, your cover value shows where you are on the continuum. So if your 0% value is 3 and your 100% value is 6, 50% is 4.5 (not sure if rounded).

Epperaliant
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Re: Tell me about Difficulty

Post by Epperaliant » Wed Oct 14, 2020 6:11 pm

Ok that's clear, thank you.

Mojko
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Re: Tell me about Difficulty

Post by Mojko » Fri Oct 16, 2020 5:51 pm

Some more information:
  • This game uses decimals which also includes unit strength (hit points)
  • The game doesn't show you close attack because it shows you your current (real value in the context of current tile) attack instead (the same unit will change the attack value based on the cover value of the terrain)
  • This means that the game UI hides some things from you but it's for the sake of simplicity (cover calculations are done automatically)
  • The whole idea of the cover system is to avoid the horrible binary system of Panzer Corps, OOB has a much more smooth system where you can actually use other than infantry units in terrain with high coverage (like flame tanks)
Author and maintainer of Unit Navigator Tool for Order Of Battle (http://mfendek.byethost16.com/)

Epperaliant
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Re: Tell me about Difficulty

Post by Epperaliant » Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:30 pm

It makes sense.

Epperaliant
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Re: Tell me about Difficulty

Post by Epperaliant » Sun Oct 25, 2020 7:47 pm

So, what's the "meta" tactics that you use to get successful results in this game?

In PzC it was essentially:

-Pound stuff with artillery/bombers
-Strike entrenched troops with flamers
-Surround and go for the kill maximizing your unit's strength according to unit type and terrain.

How does it work here?

kondi754
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Re: Tell me about Difficulty

Post by kondi754 » Sun Oct 25, 2020 10:49 pm

Epperaliant wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 7:47 pm
So, what's the "meta" tactics that you use to get successful results in this game?

In PzC it was essentially:

-Pound stuff with artillery/bombers
-Strike entrenched troops with flamers
-Surround and go for the kill maximizing your unit's strength according to unit type and terrain.

How does it work here?

1. fit within the CPs (slots) limit, in my opinion it is best to use all available slots, the quality of the units is secondary
2. use RPs (funds) sparingly, but the most important thing is when to spend your hard-saved reserves
3. skillfully choose your strategies and tactics, try to complete all tasks with the least amount of effort, look for hidden opportunities :twisted:

Most importantly, this game can be won in many ways, so play the way you like. :)

Epperaliant
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Re: Tell me about Difficulty

Post by Epperaliant » Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:21 am

Thanks, but I was strictly speaking about the combat approach.

WarHomer
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Re: Tell me about Difficulty

Post by WarHomer » Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:09 pm

Yes, pound with arty and stratbombers to reduce enemy efficiency until you can attack without taking damage yourself.

That´s basically it.

gunny
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Re: Tell me about Difficulty

Post by gunny » Mon Oct 26, 2020 10:50 pm

bru888 wrote:
Sat Oct 10, 2020 5:17 pm
What I am surprised about is that none of you fellows mentioned that the degree of difficulty is actually up to the scenario designer, not the game designer. Now, what I am about to say must be tempered with the need to adhere somewhat to actual history. Any otherwise reputable designer would be irresponsible indeed to allow for a shattering victory of U.S. and Filipino forces over the Japanese in the Battle of Bataan.

That said, however, I could design a Battle of Bataan in which the Allies would easily accomplish their goal of temporarily delaying the Japanese advance. Or, I could make it so difficult that you would be complaining and dialing the difficulty setting back.

And it would not just be a matter of the number of units on each side. Experience, entrenchment, supply, logistical support (an extra fighter? how about a couple of friendly destroyers offshore?); all sorts of ways to adjust gameplay balance.

The game itself is balanced as to gameplay if two experienced players with the same setup go at it head-to-head and it can go either way. Or if the player is battling the AI with similarly matched setups on medium difficulty and the chances are even. I think the game has this basic balance.

So how does one design a Battle of Bataan competitively when the actual battle was such a lopsided affair? By coming up with unique goals that are attainable with a good amount of skill and effort. That is on the scenario designer, be it custom or official DLC, and not the game itself.

We can talk about the differences between PzC and OOB as to supply and artillery but I am responding to the OP as to his question about the degree of difficulty in this game. My assertion is that it is up to the content designers.

A final thought: Regarding official DLC, we must remember that the object is to sell this content so the designers must not make their scenarios too difficult. Custom designers are under no such constraint and the OP may wish to avail himself of that opportunity.
This above is a must read in this thread and explains everything. If you think the official releases are to easy then try the Custom designed stuff to me these are significantly more difficult. Again, as mentioned difficulty in reality is depending on scenario design. What I enjoy about the official stuff is that I actually am convinced I may have a chance to complete the secondary missions and do not have to move each unit exactly right where as with the custom stuff I have to stay caffieinated, tie up my girlfriend so she doesn't distract me, and remember to wear my WW2 retro gear as I play.

gunny
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Re: Tell me about Difficulty

Post by gunny » Mon Oct 26, 2020 10:56 pm

Epperaliant wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 9:04 am
I decided that I will try on the hardest and see how it goes.

By the way, do I get any bonus by playing the hardest? Like additional unit experience for killing more stuff?
Yeah what the others said you will probably have to only use "fresh troop reinforcement" instead of "Seasoned Troop Reinforcement" so basically your units will not gain experience. I hope I got this concept right who knows wheeeee

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Re: Tell me about Difficulty

Post by kondi754 » Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:43 am

I think someone who plays for the first time shouldn't ask others about metatactics, but rather play his first time the way he likes to play.
Thanks to this, he will learn the rules of a new game faster than by playing according to the concepts of other people.
Example: I believe that the use of strategic bombers isn't necessary to win the game. Artillery and engineers or tanks with flamethrowers will do the same (and even much more :wink: ) but strategic bombers are very expensive, it is better to spend these funds on other purposes. But a person who likes to use them in the game should play with strategic bombers to come to their own conclusions.

BTW, there is only one scenario when I use strategic bombers in OoB - Op. Downfall (landing at Tokyo Bay), when I often update old Japan medium bomber which I received as a reward earlier, then I buy a slightly cheaper B-17 strat bomber thanks to this

WarHomer
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Re: Tell me about Difficulty

Post by WarHomer » Fri Oct 30, 2020 10:11 am

I always use stratbomber (on hardest diff) when I can get some good ones and love their high mobility, high suppression and good defence.

Especially in Red Storm I find that my stratbombers are rarely targeted by luftwaffe fighters, whereas I have to think much more about the placement of my soft arty, which the wehrmacht just love to pound. Basically the same with my tacbombers.

pupski
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Re: Tell me about Difficulty

Post by pupski » Tue Nov 03, 2020 11:38 am

The thing I learned while replaying all campaigns is to really listen very well to the advice you get at the start. It feels a lit free but it can make a huge difference to stay away from certain areas when advices to do so. I haven't played PzC so much lately but OOB is still being played a lot, 1000+ hours now. I think the Russian campaign is the best so far. Funny thing is that it is still hard to win scenario's even though you have all the experience and knowledge (at standard/medium difficulty). On the topic of how to attack the first things that come to my mind are flank units, first surround before any unit attacks. Get the enemy unit a bit tired before making a serious attack. Cut supply lines, surround batches of units when possible. Build tank traps with anti tank guns behind a group of units. Kill tanks with planes, not tanks. Kill planes with anti-air before using your planes. Balance your funds. I am in Panzer Krieg scenario 3 again and I just haven't got enough money to fill the ranks (with my imported Blitzkrieg Core). Is it me or are the earlier DLC's harder, more puzzle like and scarce in credits (Panzer Krieg, US Pacific, Marines) or am I just being silly (again). I just think the Red Star, Red Storm series found the perfect balance. What was the question again?

Epperaliant
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Re: Tell me about Difficulty

Post by Epperaliant » Tue Nov 03, 2020 12:32 pm

I just made a lightning try on the Marine campaign, really a couple of minutes just for the lulz.

Tried to attack entrenched Japanese dudes with freshly disembarked marine on hardest mode, obviously it didn't end up well.

GabeKnight
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Re: Tell me about Difficulty

Post by GabeKnight » Tue Nov 03, 2020 1:16 pm

WarHomer wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 10:11 am
I always use stratbomber when I can get some good ones and love their high mobility, high suppression and good defence.

[...] I find that my stratbombers are rarely targeted by luftwaffe fighters, [...]
Yeah, me too. Highly mobile air-arty withOUT efficiency loss.

Still I wouldn't send them deep into enemy territory unescorted. Usually you're right and they're safe from enemy air, but sometimes the AI decides to gang up on one... :roll:

Sigh. Strategic bombers are expensive units anyway and elite repairing them is even more expensive... :cry:

Horst
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Re: Tell me about Difficulty

Post by Horst » Tue Nov 03, 2020 5:19 pm

In at least the first two Soviet campaigns, especially from Barbarossa on, the German units have such crazy high experience values that even your best fighter aces get quickly down to half-strength in one turn including a regular visit in hospital. I'm already abusing dirty cheap recon planes as baits with escorts to reduce the strength of AI-fighters.
Also, there is no constant progression in core-slots during the Soviet campaign scenarios, so that leaves not much room for something luxury like strategic bombers. In some scenarios, you quickly regret to even field a tactical bomber with the many swarms of German flyers everywhere.

huckc
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Re: Tell me about Difficulty

Post by huckc » Mon Nov 16, 2020 3:37 pm

Horst wrote:
Tue Nov 03, 2020 5:19 pm
Also, there is no constant progression in core-slots during the Soviet campaign scenarios, so that leaves not much room for something luxury like strategic bombers.
How many core slots do you get?

TheFilthyCasual
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Re: Tell me about Difficulty

Post by TheFilthyCasual » Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:10 pm

pupski wrote:
Tue Nov 03, 2020 11:38 am
Is it me or are the earlier DLC's harder, more puzzle like and scarce in credits (Panzer Krieg, US Pacific, Marines) or am I just being silly (again). I just think the Red Star, Red Storm series found the perfect balance. What was the question again?
It depends on what you mean by "puzzle-like".

Newer campaigns are much more "puzzle-like" in the sense that they often have much lower turn counts than older ones, so there's little room for suboptimal movement or attacks because you simply don't have the turns to spare. They're more like Panzer Corps in that regard.

Older campaigns often have a much higher turn count, so it feels like you have all the time in the world to accomplish objectives. In a sense you do, but it's balanced by the fact that your move need to be more carefully considered, since they can be more stingy with resources and taking any damage on a veteran plane or tank will seriously eat into your stockpile, if you even have one. The huge timespan covered also means you'll often be spending lots of resources on upgrades. I found it common to see people (and sometimes myself) abandon playthroughs of, say, the Pacific campaign because they got to Leyte, say, and they were out of resources, either because of massive attrition or massive unit loss (which can happen with poorly planned landings, or in certain naval battles if you don't have enough ships, or of the right sort). There's also some that were downright difficult not because of turn count but simply due to the opposition you would run into . You can easily lose Guadalcanal, for instance, if you don't know what you're doing and, say, lose your whole navy, or one of your few planes gets jumped by a couple enemy fighters and destroyed because you have no other fighters to come rescue it. Many of the missions in Burma Road use some obtuse logic to their mission scripting and you basically won't be able to win until you see how it's been laid out - for example, that you have to let yourself get surrounded in Kawkareik, and you have to take the middle road to get out.

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