"UNDO" button, too softcore ?

Order of Battle is a series of operational WW2 games starting with the Pacific War and then on to Europe!

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Alexkfabian
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"UNDO" button, too softcore ?

Post by Alexkfabian » Thu Apr 30, 2015 5:46 pm

Cannot find it, might need it.

So far, up to mission 3 in the tutorial campaign and I still want more of this sweet gem of a game :)

zakblood
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Re: "UNDO" button, too softcore ?

Post by zakblood » Thu Apr 30, 2015 5:57 pm

not needed, as it auto saves each turn, don't like you're moves then reload the start, or cheat if you don't mind doing it, there's plenty of easy ones, or some major game changing ones as well, good luck and glad you are enjoying it :wink:

Myrddraal
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Re: "UNDO" button, too softcore ?

Post by Myrddraal » Thu Apr 30, 2015 6:26 pm

There is no undo button. It doesn't really fit with the gameplay - any move reveals information, even if it simply reveals where the enemy is not. Some units can travel in enemy territory or hide in jungle, so even moves which seem like they don't reveal anything provide the player with information.

Imarion
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Re: "UNDO" button, too softcore ?

Post by Imarion » Thu Apr 30, 2015 7:52 pm

Well, we can quick save, do the move, and quick load.

An undo button will just ease this.

I'm still playing Panzer corps it is very useful if you are unsure of the possible outcome of a fight.
I often move, check the odds of a fight, and if I'm not pleased I undo.
Sometimes I mis-click, so an undo comes in handy.

Please re-consider it ;)

Imarion

Myrddraal
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Re: "UNDO" button, too softcore ?

Post by Myrddraal » Thu Apr 30, 2015 7:56 pm

Imarion, in OOB:P, you can hover over a movement hex and it will display combat odds for all the targets you could attack from that hex, so you can check your odds before committing to a fight. (of course, the actual result may vary from the prognosis, but it's correct on average.

I realise that doesn't help with mis-clicks, but I thought it might help.

dijonace
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Re: "UNDO" button, too softcore ?

Post by dijonace » Thu Apr 30, 2015 9:08 pm

No undo button....hmmm.

Imarion
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Re: "UNDO" button, too softcore ?

Post by Imarion » Fri May 01, 2015 5:42 am

Ok, being able to check odds before even moving is very nice and make undo less useful then.

I must confess I did not buy OOB (yet), I bought PZC:GC recently (I discovered this game quite late) and I'm still in the 1940 part.
Not considering the huge amount of other games I have.

I want to (and probably will) buy it, but have no time for now.

Imarion

Kull
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Re: "UNDO" button, too softcore ?

Post by Kull » Sun May 03, 2015 5:11 am

Myrddraal wrote:There is no undo button. It doesn't really fit with the gameplay - any move reveals information, even if it simply reveals where the enemy is not. Some units can travel in enemy territory or hide in jungle, so even moves which seem like they don't reveal anything provide the player with information.
I completely agree. At first it was a bit annoying (other games of this type have the undo), but after playing multiple scenarios, I fully understand why the "Undo" button was omitted. The War in the Pacific was ALL ABOUT finding your enemy in order to attack him. Giving multiple "free scouting" opportunities is just a bad idea. The undo button is just too easy, and it's effectively an on-screen cheat aid.

Besides, as a player, growing experience with the interface will greatly lessen the number of "mistake clicks". And if the bad click was that horrible, you can always restart from the Autosave - turns aren't THAT complicated. I've learned to tolerate them when they happen, and just treat the mistake as a typical fog of battle issue, where orders get lost or misunderstood.

prince_blucher
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Re: "UNDO" button, too softcore ?

Post by prince_blucher » Sun May 03, 2015 6:07 am

Kull wrote:
Myrddraal wrote:There is no undo button. It doesn't really fit with the gameplay - any move reveals information, even if it simply reveals where the enemy is not. Some units can travel in enemy territory or hide in jungle, so even moves which seem like they don't reveal anything provide the player with information.
I completely agree. At first it was a bit annoying (other games of this type have the undo), but after playing multiple scenarios, I fully understand why the "Undo" button was omitted. The War in the Pacific was ALL ABOUT finding your enemy in order to attack him. Giving multiple "free scouting" opportunities is just a bad idea. The undo button is just too easy, and it's effectively an on-screen cheat aid.

Besides, as a player, growing experience with the interface will greatly lessen the number of "mistake clicks". And if the bad click was that horrible, you can always restart from the Autosave - turns aren't THAT complicated. I've learned to tolerate them when they happen, and just treat the mistake as a typical fog of battle issue, where orders get lost or misunderstood.
Completely disagree with you. An "undo" is required for certain players who make a lot of move mistakes. In Panzer Corps I used it for exactly that, not "free" recon moves. It's not cheating at all, but please give the player the choice. ITS A GAME not real war. If you don't like it, don't use it.

An "undo" button is essential.

Kull
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Re: "UNDO" button, too softcore ?

Post by Kull » Sun May 03, 2015 7:08 am

prince_blucher wrote:An "undo" button is essential.
Wrong. Learn to live without it.

Rood
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Re: "UNDO" button, too softcore ?

Post by Rood » Sun May 03, 2015 7:23 am

I can understand the wish for a undo button, but in the end I don't think it's necessary.

Just need to adapt my playstyle and pay more attention to what I'm trying to do.
And yes, I've my plenty of mistakes especially in regards to naval/air combat (while I was still trying to grasp the mechanics).

Besides as Kull wrote whenever I do make a mistake then I view that as something that could easily happen in battle.

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Re: "UNDO" button, too softcore ?

Post by Erik2 » Sun May 03, 2015 7:50 am

There was a bit of discussion about undo very early in the beta testing. But we quickly learned to play without and the issue was never raised again.
As others have mentioned, the auto-save always allows you to replay the turn and if you want you can save during a turn.
But when the iPad version is out I guess more players will want it since it is easier to tap on the wrong spot on the iPad than click on the wrong hex on a PC.
I have started to play with a stylus to avoid the fat finger syndrome :D

TDefender
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Re: "UNDO" button, too softcore ?

Post by TDefender » Sun May 03, 2015 8:10 am

Not needed imho. Sounds like cheating.

ElDude
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Re: "UNDO" button, too softcore ?

Post by ElDude » Wed May 06, 2015 2:03 am

I wish it had an undo button.

Kull
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Re: "UNDO" button, too softcore ?

Post by Kull » Wed May 06, 2015 3:10 am

Erik wrote:There was a bit of discussion about undo very early in the beta testing. But we quickly learned to play without and the issue was never raised again.
As others have mentioned, the auto-save always allows you to replay the turn and if you want you can save during a turn.
But when the iPad version is out I guess more players will want it since it is easier to tap on the wrong spot on the iPad than click on the wrong hex on a PC.
I have started to play with a stylus to avoid the fat finger syndrome :D
That's a reasonable concern for the i-pad version, and I could see it being at least worth a look (or some other method to address fat-finger-itis).

KdF
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Re: "UNDO" button, too softcore ?

Post by KdF » Wed May 06, 2015 8:36 pm

The "undo" button shold be added to prevent misclicks which can result in a death of a unit and possibly change the battle outcome. It should not be added to scout for free and should be reflected as such. If an enemy unit becomes unconcealed through the fog of war the "undo" button should not be a viable option. Abusing it to scout with your units until you discover a unit will be your own issue if you want to cheat. Heck, you have cheat codes to turn off the fog of war anyways.

Gnarly
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Re: "UNDO" button, too softcore ?

Post by Gnarly » Fri May 08, 2015 4:19 am

"Undo" button is definitely NEEDED!
I can't tell you the number of times I clicked on an aircraft to move it and ended up moving the carrier below it. It is for "oops" situations! Not scouting or "testing" moves.
WE NEED the ability to correct a mistake.

rezaf
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Re: "UNDO" button, too softcore ?

Post by rezaf » Fri May 08, 2015 5:04 am

The more I play the more I miss this also.

And I honestly don't really see what the problem is - limit it's use to uncovering units or affecting the borders and you're done.
Well, I guess there's still an issue with aircraft (who can then indeed scout if anything is there, and undo if there is nothing) and the navy (which doesn't affect borders and thus can do a similar thing), but imo these are faily minor issues. I still CAN savescum, you're only making it a little more annoying.
Just add it as a game option that's disabled by default.

The advice to just "learn to live without it" is a bit silly - we could also start to ship all cars without brakes, and I guess we all could somehow learn to live without them. But that doesn't make it a good idea.
_____
rezaf

Kull
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Re: "UNDO" button, too softcore ?

Post by Kull » Fri May 08, 2015 8:20 pm

It might be "convenient", but it's really just a soft sort of cheating. There is no "undo button" in warfare. You make some sort of oops mistake, well, welcome to battle.

That said, perhaps the Devs could look at inserting one but requiring the player to select an option which enables/disables the undo button. And that factor would be recorded in save game just like difficulty levels are. Eventually people are going to be submitting games as the "fastest to do X", and so forth, so it would be good to know if they achieved that with the help of the wussie button.

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Re: "UNDO" button, too softcore ?

Post by robman » Fri May 08, 2015 8:36 pm

I would like to have the option (or as Kull suggests, the option to have the option). I spaz out all the time and move units a hex or two when I just mean to select them. I would like to be able to undo such minor gaffes without restarting the turn. Fair enough if the option grays out if previously unseen enemy units appear.

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