Super fast infantry

Order of Battle is a series of operational WW2 games starting with the Pacific War and then on to Europe!

Moderators: Order of Battle Moderators, The Artistocrats

Post Reply
Werk9
Lance Corporal - SdKfz 222
Lance Corporal - SdKfz 222
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:40 am

Super fast infantry

Post by Werk9 » Wed May 06, 2015 8:11 pm

Hello,

isn’t the Japanese Infantry 42 a little bit fast? It can move 6 fields. For comparison:
The B5N2 Kanko can move 8 fields. Recon units like Sumida or Osaka can move 5 fields.

Is there any reason why this infantry type can move so far? For me it looks imbalanced.

Longasc
Lieutenant Colonel - Panther D
Lieutenant Colonel - Panther D
Posts: 1248
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 6:38 pm

Re: Super fast infantry

Post by Longasc » Wed May 06, 2015 9:14 pm

Oh, other Infantry moves that far, too. But its more like 3 fields. "2" seems to be the normal movement cost for most terrain. 3 for more difficult terrain etc.. So 6 becomes 3, and 4 becomes 2 for Infantry. While the planes always fly their full 8 or more hexes.

Erik2
Order of Battle Moderator
Order of Battle Moderator
Posts: 6719
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 12:59 pm
Location: Norway

Re: Super fast infantry

Post by Erik2 » Thu May 07, 2015 8:04 am

In general it is difficult to tune land/air/naval movement correctly to various map sizes. Time/space quicly enters Einsteinian territory :D
I think the infantry movements in general are a bit too generous.
I hope we will be able to mod unit stats pr scenario so that they will be more consistent with different map sizes.

Moving off infantry here...
For instance, I would like to experience with air movement = max range for the specific map and fuel = 3 turns. So you would launch the air unit, move towards the target turn-1, fight on turn-2 and return on turn-3.

Horst
Sr. Colonel - Battleship
Sr. Colonel - Battleship
Posts: 1621
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:22 pm

Re: Super fast infantry

Post by Horst » Thu May 07, 2015 11:19 am

Erik wrote:Moving off infantry here...
For instance, I would like to experience with air movement = max range for the specific map and fuel = 3 turns. So you would launch the air unit, move towards the target turn-1, fight on turn-2 and return on turn-3.
Problem with fast aircraft speeds is that you could hardly intercept bombers anymore. Imagine if the enemy sends half dozen bombers against your carrier fleet: they would be sunk in few turns right after scenario start. In Panzer General titles, only one bomber could attack one target below in one turn where it isn't that devasting like here in OOB with up to seven bombers vs. a single target in one turn!

Erik2
Order of Battle Moderator
Order of Battle Moderator
Posts: 6719
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 12:59 pm
Location: Norway

Re: Super fast infantry

Post by Erik2 » Thu May 07, 2015 11:54 am

But the bombers would only get one attack and would then have to head back to their own carrier.
I think it would also force players to put a fighter unit on CAP.
But this must of course be tested in actual play.

Werk9
Lance Corporal - SdKfz 222
Lance Corporal - SdKfz 222
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:40 am

Re: Super fast infantry

Post by Werk9 » Thu May 07, 2015 7:47 pm

Longasc wrote:Oh, other Infantry moves that far, too. But its more like 3 fields. "2" seems to be the normal movement cost for most terrain. 3 for more difficult terrain etc.. So 6 becomes 3, and 4 becomes 2 for Infantry. While the planes always fly their full 8 or more hexes.
Good point, but should be infantry on streets nearly as fast as planes? And faster with transportation trucks? Even with movement costs of 2 it can move 3 fields – like some carriers.

Ballacraine
Staff Sergeant - Kavallerie
Staff Sergeant - Kavallerie
Posts: 305
Joined: Mon May 14, 2012 8:42 pm

Re: Super fast infantry

Post by Ballacraine » Thu May 07, 2015 8:11 pm

Not only that, in the naval scenarios the ships cover nearly as much water as the aircraft.

I don't think the ship movement is excessive, so perhaps increase the movement points of the aircraft?

:?

Longasc
Lieutenant Colonel - Panther D
Lieutenant Colonel - Panther D
Posts: 1248
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 6:38 pm

Re: Super fast infantry

Post by Longasc » Thu May 07, 2015 8:37 pm

Well, to make things "right":

Infantry moves only 1 hex.
Or ships move say 15 hexes.

Not really better, isn't it?

^ basically, what Erik said. But I don't want to play the advocatus diaboli, I feel ships are a bit slow indeed. But they are balanced with that speed for the naval battles and it works out as it is. Battleships can attack at a range of 9 fields, after all. But only move 3. Kinda fitting, IMO.

How to balance that? Planes usually go a lot faster than I am walking, too. There has to be a balance game wise, I am afraid given the variable map sizes in OoBPac and Panzer Corps balancing the speed of units with reality is not possible.

Right now I am fighting near Henderson Field in the Jungle and Infantry doesn't move far. 2 hexes is the norm. And on a road they can and should move quickly.

rezaf
Colonel - Fallschirmjäger
Colonel - Fallschirmjäger
Posts: 1487
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2011 3:27 pm

Re: Super fast infantry

Post by rezaf » Fri May 08, 2015 5:15 am

Longasc wrote:Right now I am fighting near Henderson Field in the Jungle and Infantry doesn't move far. 2 hexes is the norm. And on a road they can and should move quickly.
Yeah, I actually have the opposite problem than the OP and feel infantry, if anything, is too slow. Though this is more of a map design issue than a unit stat issue.
Many missions later in the Japanese campaign take part in jungles without roads or anything, and spending dozens of units of mostly INF slowly creeping forward over the map with an average speed of 1.2 hexes per turn isn't exactly my idea of fun, so every new mission I play I'd currently rate lower than the last.
_____
rezaf

apec
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Posts: 96
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2015 7:18 am

Re: Super fast infantry

Post by apec » Fri May 08, 2015 8:22 am

I had the same experience with the slow moving infantry in some scenarios. However I think the current system capture nicely the issues and influence of the various terrains and force the player to adapt his strategy to the map, which is good for the fun factor :)

Longasc
Lieutenant Colonel - Panther D
Lieutenant Colonel - Panther D
Posts: 1248
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 6:38 pm

Re: Super fast infantry

Post by Longasc » Fri May 08, 2015 8:31 am

Oh I see and definitely agree.

Rezaf, will there be large land battles with lots of inland fighting on hex-wise large islands? Sounds interesting, but I see how it can become a drag.

(I want to restart my current scenario (first one with Henderson Field) as the heavily scripted nature of the scenarios can also be a drawback. While it didn't kill me I would have done things differently if I knew that suddenly my whole naval fleet "withdraws" and instantly goes poof! :))

I can imagine how it is to walk through the Jungle, even Light Infantry will move 1-2 fields and not more. Heavy Infantry better only does defense, you really don't want to traverse large stretches of rough terrain with speed 1.
Anyways, I think the original posting was made with "6 hexes" movement in mind, and that's not really what it is.

Right now there also seems to be a problem with tanks refusing to enter certain actually non-restricted terrain types , judging from reports on this forum.

rezaf
Colonel - Fallschirmjäger
Colonel - Fallschirmjäger
Posts: 1487
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2011 3:27 pm

Re: Super fast infantry

Post by rezaf » Fri May 08, 2015 8:58 am

[quote="Longasc"]Rezaf, will there be large land battles with lots of inland fighting on hex-wise large islands? /quote]

I'd say yes, but it probably depends on your definition of "large". I'm currently playing a mission which has 60 turns (I'm about 30% in) and I don't see how I can reach the objective in time right now, that's how slow progress is.
The map designers used the cheap trick of making the island non-circumventable by cutting off the map at the sides so you cannot actually reach the enemy navy with yours and vice versa.
My biggest problem is my two torpedo bombers started the scenario with bombs for some reason and the carrier bug prevents me from switching their loadout. Thus they are almost useless vs. capital ships, and I'm having a very hard time grinding the enemy fleet down.
_____
rezaf

Post Reply

Return to “Order of Battle Series”