Air Units q&a ?

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rad
Lance Corporal - Panzer IA
Lance Corporal - Panzer IA
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Air Units q&a ?

Post by rad »

Most everything about OOB is exceptionally good - it's becoming THE best of class wargame. Q1 : I would like to understand the programme logic around the number of turns (usually c.12) air units remain "in flight" - taken literally this suggests each unit remains operational for over a week measured by the calendar day count down in the game modules - is the game logic different squadrons are operating day by day from the presiding air unit and after 12 "days" the whole air unit has to re-fit/re-fuel at an air base or carrier ? Q2 : in scenarios where the weather is set to rain or tropical storm the weather does not seem to impeded air operations ? Is this a correct interpretation ? Can a Moderator enlighten ?
BiteNibbleChomp
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Re: Air Units q&a ?

Post by BiteNibbleChomp »

1/ If this game was completely accurate, in some scenarios an air unit could remain flying for the whole map (Pearl Harbour), and others for <1 turn (anything with daily turns). It is set at this level for balance and fun more than anything else.

2/ Weather (at least the rain) is purely cosmetic.

- BNC
Ryan O'Shea - Developer - Strategic Command American Civil War
bebro
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Re: Air Units q&a ?

Post by bebro »

Yeah, 1) is clearly a tribute to gameplay, and this is the "classic" approach of PG/PzC. The number of turns air units can stay airborne depends on their fuel stat.

I remember how People's General tried to provide a much more "realistic" air model where your air units flew "missions" and returned home immediately afterwards. IIRC you could start other air missions as long you got a certain amount of points left. While this method was ok for bombing runs, I found it severely lacking for air superiority/patrol etc purposes.
rad
Lance Corporal - Panzer IA
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Re: Air Units q&a ?

Post by rad »

replying to Bitenibblechomp post item 1 : appreciate OOB has to pander to a "beer and pretzels" front end look and feel to be commercially viable - however - the game designers differentiate this game by inserting a background realism to the modules PG lacks (e.g. supply) - my sense is : play balance is over balanced by the long duration of the air unit capability - e.g. at worst Battle of Britain module has no historical relationship to the actual time-line of the 1940 German/UK air campaign. On post item 2 : if the weather factoring is cosmetic only, will this distort the role of air units in later campaign releases - e.g. Battle of the Bulge where Germans gambled on 0/low Allied air cover thru Dec '44 ? The last thing OOB needs to become is a micro managed "click-fest" such as "War in the East" - however it's the ingenious background programming that sets this game apart for those middle brow gamers such as myself who dwell between the polarities of "shoot 'em up" v "grain counting grognard" ...
mhladnik
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Re: Air Units q&a ?

Post by mhladnik »

This! Long live middle-brow gamers between the polarities :)
bru888
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Re: Air Units q&a ?

Post by bru888 »

Yes, back in my scenario designing days, I had a mini-scenario in which the player was required to "precision fly" a flight of incoming fighters and bombers so as to avoid low-fuel damage or loss. "Great," I said. "Nice touch." I hurt my arm patting myself on the back until I realized that it took three or four days to land the aircraft properly, on time and in order!

The problem was, as has been pointed out, that I had each turn = 1 day, so the flight was therefore three and four "days" away from the airfield when they appeared on the map. "What the heck?" Then I realized that the mind can adjust for things like this, once you let it.

For example, people sometimes write here about the mismatch of unit sizes; men as large as tanks; tanks as large as destroyers, etc. What they have not experienced yet is the mind shift that occurs: If the game is enough fun and engrosses your attention, then you don't think about or notice such things anymore.

The same thing happened with that mini-scenario of mine. It was like the flight to base was occurring over a matter of hours, not days, when I was focused on that mission. Otherwise, the days elapsed as normal in my mind when turns were ended.

So, please don't change anything on this account, Artistocrats. :)
- Bru
rad
Lance Corporal - Panzer IA
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Re: Air Units q&a ?

Post by rad »

Circling back to my original Q1 in this thread can a brilliant and gifted mind in this forum yet offer a rational explanation of the game logic underpinning air units in relation to scenario elapsed time held against the reality measure of : primarily "air" battles such as Battle of Britain and Midway, where the ability to maintain air cover / refuelling was entirely critical to the outcome in the time-frame of a single day ? Churchill's 1939 observation of Russian foreign policy comes to mind ..."It is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma" ? :roll:
BiteNibbleChomp
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Re: Air Units q&a ?

Post by BiteNibbleChomp »

The date itself doesn't really matter for this game anyway. Just the turn count.

Don't let it command too much of your attention.

- BNC
Ryan O'Shea - Developer - Strategic Command American Civil War
Erik2
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Re: Air Units q&a ?

Post by Erik2 »

During the original beta days I proposed this for air units.

Fuel = 4-5 turns.
Launch = t-1, move to area = t-2, search/attack = t-3/4, return = t-4/5
And most air types would get longer movement rates.

Someday I'm gonna create a mod and test this for carrier battles (along with 1 launching torpedo and 1 bomb load before returning).
Same simple mechanics, but more realism.
rad
Lance Corporal - Panzer IA
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Re: Air Units q&a ?

Post by rad »

Erik the 4-5 turn formulation you outline effectively dials the air power factor back towards a more realistic footing - in the present game default air movement distances are indeed too short per turn / game turns over extended for air units. An iteration might be for a toggle on/off option in the game setup menu for "realistic" air units v the current version of air unit ops as the default ? Ditto : weather effect on air ops as a toggle on/off option ref. my Q2 ? Thanks for sharing !
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