Please fix Winter War bugs.

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bru888
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Please fix Winter War bugs.

Post by bru888 » Sun Feb 12, 2017 11:39 pm

I just resurrected two Tech Support threads from last August and September, reporting the two issues that I now see in Lapland. Please see those threads for details.

Other Winter War bugs have been reported as well. However, either I missed them or maybe I just didn't take notice (like a blank pop-up message picture). The two that I reported on, Soviet Stukas and misplaced Ivalo objective hex, are definitely still issues and these affect gameplay, not aesthetics.

I will briefly shed my fanboy persona to express my disappointment over ending an otherwise enjoyable campaign in this manner. It appears to me that bug reports posted in Tech Support concerning Winter War were either missed or ignored as there have been multiple patches since that time. (I am playing the 2.9.9 version.)

Following up on feedback is important for good quality control. People don't mind bugs. What they do mind is reporting bugs and seeing nothing done about them.
- Bru

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Re: Please fix Winter War bugs.

Post by GiveWarAchance » Mon Feb 13, 2017 5:28 am

Don't forget they are small company and have many things to fix.
It is good that they are active in trying to patch up the game.
Hopefully they can help you soon.

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Re: Please fix Winter War bugs.

Post by Andy2012 » Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:17 am

GiveWarAchance wrote:Don't forget they are small company and have many things to fix.
It is good that they are active in trying to patch up the game.
Hopefully they can help you soon.
Agree with the small company thing, limited resources.
But bru has pointed out the exact location of those mistakes / minor bugs in the editor and how easy they are to fix.
I mean, it is not like they break the whole game, but it is still annoying and has been reported for a while now.
I hope the next dlc they do after Kriegsmarine is something that does not require adding tons of units and mechanics, i.e. "Russia 1942-43, Demyansk to Stalingrad". This way, they can sell stuff and still have time to fix old things. This is a business with financial goals, after all. Making new things to sell always comes first, gotta blow up those sales numbers. (Even though I reeeaally wish they would fix the old stuff...)

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Re: Please fix Winter War bugs.

Post by bru888 » Mon Feb 13, 2017 2:21 pm

That's my point; those bugs in particular were easy to find and fix, yet they were not. If I wanted to, I could fix them myself in five minutes.

Instead, one gets the impression that the developers are not paying attention to bug reports. Watch to see if those threads are now going to sink down the Tech Support board, unanswered.

This is a bad impression to give, one that is not conducive to future sales. That in turn leads one to worry about the viability of this franchise.
- Bru

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Re: Please fix Winter War bugs.

Post by adherbal » Mon Feb 13, 2017 2:46 pm

One of the issues is that releasing a full patch build takes a lot of time, in large part because it needs to be scheduled in Slitherne's production team who have to manage betas, release builds and patches for lots of games.

Since the last patch we have introduced an automatic patch system however. It's poorly tested so we haven't made use of it yet, but we will be after the Kriegsmarine update. This system will allows us to release small code and scenario fixes in the course of days or even hours rather than weeks/months.
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Re: Please fix Winter War bugs.

Post by Andy2012 » Mon Feb 13, 2017 2:57 pm

adherbal wrote:One of the issues is that releasing a full patch build takes a lot of time, in large part because it needs to be scheduled in Slitherne's production team who have to manage betas, release builds and patches for lots of games.

Since the last patch we have introduced an automatic patch system however. It's poorly tested so we haven't made use of it yet, but we will be after the Kriegsmarine update. This system will allows us to release small code and scenario fixes in the course of days or even hours rather than weeks/months.
Sounds very reasonable. To be honest, I was always a bit surprised that you guys could do hotfixes on the fly but not assign a programmer with a list of minor bugs (missing pics, triggers not set properly etc.), have it fixed in a day or two, and put them in a minor patch once in a while. But I guess we all know very little about coding and the Slitherine workflow.

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Re: Please fix Winter War bugs.

Post by bru888 » Mon Feb 13, 2017 3:36 pm

adherbal wrote:One of the issues is that releasing a full patch build takes a lot of time, in large part because it needs to be scheduled in Slitherne's production team who have to manage betas, release builds and patches for lots of games.

Since the last patch we have introduced an automatic patch system however. It's poorly tested so we haven't made use of it yet, but we will be after the Kriegsmarine update. This system will allows us to release small code and scenario fixes in the course of days or even hours rather than weeks/months.
Your response in itself is encouraging. Thank you.
- Bru

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Re: Please fix Winter War bugs.

Post by KeinGeneral » Tue Feb 14, 2017 6:59 pm

adherbal wrote:One of the issues is that releasing a full patch build takes a lot of time, in large part because it needs to be scheduled in Slitherne's production team who have to manage betas, release builds and patches for lots of games.

Since the last patch we have introduced an automatic patch system however. It's poorly tested so we haven't made use of it yet, but we will be after the Kriegsmarine update. This system will allows us to release small code and scenario fixes in the course of days or even hours rather than weeks/months.

So no matter what problems are present, I have paid for a complete game at once and not in monthly a 1, - Euro. So I also expect to recover ALL bugs quickly, and not months.
This is also the case with war navies. Stop this project and use the resources in the troubleshooting such as the reported and the missing scenarios (Winter War - Viipurinlati). THAT would be the opposite of the hitherto paid and with an incomplete match living player!
But I do not notice anything here!

Und hier in Deutsch, weil Google ja so perfekt ist:

Also egal was für Probleme vorhanden sind, ich habe für ein vollständiges Spiel auf einmal und nicht in Monatsraten a 1,- Euro bezahlt. Also erwarte ich auch BEHEBUNGEN aller Fehler schnellstens, und nicht nach Monaten.
So ist es auch mit Kriegsmarine. Stop dieses Projekt und setzt die Resourcen in die Fehlerbehebung wie die gemeldeten und die fehlende Szenarios (Winter War - Viipurinlati) ein. DAS wäre gegenüber den bisher zahlenden und mit einem unvollständigen Spiel lebenden Spieler gerecht!!
Aber davon merke ich hier nichts!!!
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Re: Please fix Winter War bugs.

Post by Andy2012 » Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:22 pm

KeinGeneral wrote:
adherbal wrote:One of the issues is that releasing a full patch build takes a lot of time, in large part because it needs to be scheduled in Slitherne's production team who have to manage betas, release builds and patches for lots of games.

Since the last patch we have introduced an automatic patch system however. It's poorly tested so we haven't made use of it yet, but we will be after the Kriegsmarine update. This system will allows us to release small code and scenario fixes in the course of days or even hours rather than weeks/months.

So no matter what problems are present, I have paid for a complete game at once and not in monthly a 1, - Euro. So I also expect to recover ALL bugs quickly, and not months.
This is also the case with war navies. Stop this project and use the resources in the troubleshooting such as the reported and the missing scenarios (Winter War - Viipurinlati). THAT would be the opposite of the hitherto paid and with an incomplete match living player!
But I do not notice anything here!

Und hier in Deutsch, weil Google ja so perfekt ist:

Also egal was für Probleme vorhanden sind, ich habe für ein vollständiges Spiel auf einmal und nicht in Monatsraten a 1,- Euro bezahlt. Also erwarte ich auch BEHEBUNGEN aller Fehler schnellstens, und nicht nach Monaten.
So ist es auch mit Kriegsmarine. Stop dieses Projekt und setzt die Resourcen in die Fehlerbehebung wie die gemeldeten und die fehlende Szenarios (Winter War - Viipurinlati) ein. DAS wäre gegenüber den bisher zahlenden und mit einem unvollständigen Spiel lebenden Spieler gerecht!!
Aber davon merke ich hier nichts!!!
...and here I was, thinking we could all have a polite and respectful conversation. But noooo, someone has summoned, well, him... :roll:
Funny thing is - in his native language, he is even more impolite. The faulty translation mostly dampens his obnoxiousness.
Dude, calm down. This is a computer game. There are other games, people, things to enjoy. :D If it annoys you so much, just stop playing. (I think I wrote this before.) Everybody is doing their best to support this game and each other. The devs are working hard. Please, try to be polite.
And in German (dont need google translate for this): Ich habe das schon mal geschrieben - bleib ruhig, sei hoeflich. Das ist ein Computerspiel, die Welt da draussen ist auch noch da. Wenn es so furchtbar ist, hoer auf zu spielen. Die Entwickler arbeiten hart und werden nach und nach alle Fehler bearbeiten. Ganz ruhig, hm?

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Re: Please fix Winter War bugs.

Post by Andy2012 » Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:28 pm

@ Kein General: Take a look at this thread.
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtop ... 64&t=76016
This is how adults have a respectful conversation. And most of them are not English native speakers.
In German: Lies mal den thread. So geht man respektvoll miteinander um. Auch wenn man nicht Englisch als Muttersprache hat. Ganz einfach.

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Re: Please fix Winter War bugs.

Post by KeinGeneral » Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:44 am

Andy2012 wrote:@ Kein General: Take a look at this thread.
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtop ... 64&t=76016
This is how adults have a respectful conversation. And most of them are not English native speakers.
In German: Lies mal den thread. So geht man respektvoll miteinander um. Auch wenn man nicht Englisch als Muttersprache hat. Ganz einfach.
Auch wenn Du der Meinung bist, man solle nach dem Motto "ooohhhmmmm" alles aussitzten, habe ich eine andere Meinung momentan dazu.

Erstens wurden viele Fehler, gerade bei Winter War letztes Jahr gemeldet (Juli 2016 und jetzt haben wir welches Datum??) und was passiert ... Blitzkrieg wird rausgebracht (Fehlerbehaftet) und nun wird groß Kriegsmarine hier vorgestellt, aber alte Fehler werden nicht behoben!!
Zweitens soll man für ein Spiel wie Kriegsmarine wieder tief in die Tasche greifen, nur um wieder ein fehlerbehaftetes Zusatzspiel zu haben?

Zum Schluss noch dieses Andy. Das es ein Spiel ist und es ein Leben ausserhalb meiner 4 Wände gibt, ist mir bekannt. Aber für das Spiel habe ich eine Menge Geld bezahlt (für das ich ebenso hart arbeiten musste wie andere auch) und was habe ich bekommen??
Von hartem Arbeiten sehe ich auch (gerade hier) nichts, denn wenn es so wäre, würde das Spiel nicht so viele Fehler haben, oder?
Dann dass man keinen vollwertigen Editor hat ist bei diesem Preis ... unverständlich!!
Eine "Zugrücknahme" ist nicht mögich, warum nicht??
Somit ist meine Anregung (wenn mittlerweile von Wut getragen bei dieser Masse an Fehler) alle neuen Projekte einzustellen und erst einmal alle Fehler aus den bestehenden Teilen des Spiels (wie z.B. das fehlende Szenario zu liefen) zu beheben verständlich, oder??

Ich erwarte bei diesen Preis ein fehlerfreies Spiel mit einem vollwertigen Editor (wo ich auch Einheiten ändern kann) und nicht einen solchen Flickenteppich wie wir es jetzt haben ... und vor allem mal Bestätigungen, dass die gemeldeten Fehler regestriert und weitergeletet wurden. Aber selbst das bekommt man hier nicht hin, was Browser Games, die kostenlos sind, besser hinbekommen.

Darum bin ich nicht mehr ruhig, sondern mache mein Mund auf, damit vielleicht mal etwas passiert!!

Und diesesmal umgekehrt mit Google übersetzt

Even if you are of the opinion that you owe the motto "ooohhhmmmm" everything, I have a different opinion momentarily.

Firstly, many mistakes were reported, especially at Winter War last year (July 2016 and now we have what date ??) and what happened ... Blitzkrieg is rausgebracht (fault-liable) and now large Kriegsmarine is presented here, but old errors are not fixed !!
Secondly, you want to put a game like Kriegsmarine back in the bag, just to have a faulty additional game?

Finally, this Andy. That it is a game and there is a life outside of my 4 walls is known to me. But for the game I paid a lot of money (for which I had to work just as hard as others) and what did I get?
I do not see anything working hard, because if it were, the game would not have so many mistakes, right?
Then that you have no full-fledged editor is at this price ... incomprehensible!
A "pullback" is not possible, why not?
Thus, my suggestion (if now worn of anger with this mass of errors) is to cease all new projects and to solve all the errors from the existing parts of the game (such as the missing scenario to run) understandable, or ??

I expect this price a fault-free game with a full-fledged editor (where I can also change units) and not such a patch carpet as we have it now ... and especially times confirmations that the reported errors were regestriert and passed on. But even this one does not get what browser games, which are free, get better.

That's why I'm no longer quiet, but open my mouth, so maybe something happens!
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Re: Please fix Winter War bugs.

Post by Andy2012 » Wed Feb 15, 2017 5:49 am

Whoa. This thread turned from a respectful and polite request by bru, answered by the devs almost immediately and quite reasonably into... well, a teutonic diatribe of righteous indignation. :roll: "Ei vill nott hav itt" :mrgreen:
Thank god he is only armed with a keyboard.

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Re: Please fix Winter War bugs.

Post by ferokapo » Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:29 am

@KeinGeneral
Wenn Du Gehör finden willst, dann hilft es ungemein, höflich zu bleiben und sich verständlich auszudrücken. Basis-Englisch ist super einfach zu lernen und wird Dir in vielen Lagen überall weiterhelfen. Wenn Du dazu nicht willens bist, dann bleibt in der Tat noch Google Translator. Aber auch da solltest Du Dir ein Minimum an Mühe geben und einfache Sätze ohne Idiome, Redewendungen, oder Sprichworte benutzen. Damit kann Google Translator nämlich nicht umgehen. Deutsch ist sowieso eine der schwierigsten indo-germanischen Sprachen zum Übersetzen. Der englische Text in Deinen Posts ist überwiegend Grütze, das versteht keine Sau. Und Da Du nicht höflich bleibst, will sich auch niemand viel Mühe geben - verständlicherweise. Du gibst Dir ja auch keine beim Kommunizieren.

If you want to be heard, it helps a lot to remain polite and express yourself in a comprehensible manner. Basic English is very easy to learn and will help you in a lot of situations. If you are not willing to learn it, indeed Google Translater remains an option. However, there as well you should invest a modicum of effort and use simple sentences without idioms or proverbs. Google Translator does not get them. German is one of the most difficult (indo-germanic) languages for automatic translation anyway. The English text in your posts is mostly gibberish, no one will easily understand it. And since you do not remain polite (that is clearly visible), no one wants to invest any effort - understandably so. After all, you invest precious little effort to communicate yourself.

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Re: Please fix Winter War bugs.

Post by Andy2012 » Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:50 am

@Eisenkopf: Well, he does invest a lot of time in being rude. I'll give him that. :mrgreen:

@KeinGeneral: People ignore you because that is the general reaction in anglophone countries to rude foreigners. People avert their gaze and pretend you are not there. More of a passive-aggressive way to correct social misdemeanor. Germans are more direct and call you out on your bullsh*t. That is why bru gets answers from the devs right away and you are ignored.
Und auf Deutsch: In englischsprachigen Laendern werden unhoefliche Leute ignoriert. Daher bekommst Du keine Antworten auf deine Anfragen und Vorwuerfe, bru hingegen sofort. In Deutschland sind wir da direkter.

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Re: Please fix Winter War bugs.

Post by bru888 » Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:29 pm

Say, I'd like to try that Google Translator, if I may. Here:

Meine Freunde, es gibt nicht genug von uns hier, um unter uns zu kämpfen.

I wonder if that translated properly. Would one or more of you care to translate that back into English for me to see if it did? I will then compare it to my original transcript in English.
- Bru

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Re: Please fix Winter War bugs.

Post by Andy2012 » Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:43 pm

bru888 wrote:Say, I'd like to try that Google Translator, if I may. Here:

Meine Freunde, es gibt nicht genug von uns hier, um unter uns zu kämpfen.

I wonder if that translated properly. Would one of you care to translate that back into English for me to see if it did? I will compare it with my original transcript in English.
Yep, impeccable German. Must be doing something right, bru. :D
"My friends, there are not enough of us here to fight among ourselves / for infighting". That was the original, right?

Usually, I dont like picking fights. But I am quite pleased with the friendly tone and general civility around here, so I felt like I couldnt just let that obnoxious German run wild. He always reminds me of that overweight teutonic tourist a a beach resort yelling at the staff until the manager kicks him out. Its definitely not the language barrier (other around here struggle, too), rather serious anger issues. :roll:

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Re: Please fix Winter War bugs.

Post by ferokapo » Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:00 pm

Andy2012 wrote:
bru888 wrote:Say, I'd like to try that Google Translator, if I may. Here:

Meine Freunde, es gibt nicht genug von uns hier, um unter uns zu kämpfen.

I wonder if that translated properly. Would one of you care to translate that back into English for me to see if it did? I will compare it with my original transcript in English.
Yep, impeccable German. Must be doing something right, bru. :D
"My friends, there are not enough of us here to fight among ourselves / for infighting". That was the original, right?

Usually, I dont like picking fights. But I am quite pleased with the friendly tone and general civility around here, so I felt like I couldnt just let that obnoxious German run wild. He always reminds me of that overweight teutonic tourist a a beach resort yelling at the staff until the manager kicks him out. Its definitely not the language barrier (other around here struggle, too), rather serious anger issues. :roll:
I think that one went quite well. Literally it says "My friends, there are not enough of us here to fight beneath us." Last part obviously is not what you meant, but it's close enough to the intended meaning that I actually struggled to translate it back literally. (Sorry Andy, but "unter uns kämpfen" is not quite the same as "untereinander kämpfen" :-) )

I fully agree with you both, but at the same time I don't think that there was a fight going on. At least not in the same league of what I've seen in other forums. I've tried to point out unambiguously but not impolitely that understanding always needs an effort from both sides. And when I look at the German original text in question, I think there was a lack of effort. Obviously, when you do not speak the language at all, you cannot know whether Google Translator gave you shite for results... I understand five European languages (sorry not trying to brag here but trying to make my point) well enough to judge Google Translator results, and for German it only works for really (and I mean really) simple sentences somewhat reliably. Plus, from English to German works usually better than the other way around. You can't just type as you would to a native German-speaker, copy and paste into Google Translator, and expect the results to be any good. Yet. The improvements during the last years have been impressive, I'd say wait another 4-5 years and it should work.

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Re: Please fix Winter War bugs.

Post by VPaulus » Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:27 pm

Winter War won the 3rd place in the category of best DLC in the annual Grogheads Readers’ Choice Award Winners.
Not bad for a buggy DLC. ;)
Anyway the bugs reported should be fixed on the next patch.
Thanks for reporting. :)

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Re: Please fix Winter War bugs.

Post by Andy2012 » Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:41 pm

VPaulus wrote:Winter War won the 3rd place in the category of best DLC in the annual Grogheads Readers’ Choice Award Winners.
Not bad for a buggy DLC. ;)
Anyway the bugs reported should be fixed on the next patch.
Thanks for reporting. :)
Congrats. Blitzkrieg didnt enter?
And to be fair, it wasnt that buggy; rather, the minor bugs were never really solved (for reasons we know now thanks to adherbal).
The original was pretty buggy or at least it felt like that to me. This game still is really greedy for computer power.
Anyways, congrats. Lets hope Kriegsmarine and Blitzkrieg win more prizes and sell well.

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Re: Please fix Winter War bugs.

Post by bru888 » Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:54 pm

Andy2012 wrote:
bru888 wrote:Say, I'd like to try that Google Translator, if I may. Here:

Meine Freunde, es gibt nicht genug von uns hier, um unter uns zu kämpfen.

I wonder if that translated properly. Would one of you care to translate that back into English for me to see if it did? I will compare it with my original transcript in English.
Yep, impeccable German. Must be doing something right, bru. :D
"My friends, there are not enough of us here to fight among ourselves." That was the original, right?
Correct! (With a nod to eisenkopf's alternative translation.) Thanks, but Google Translator did the impeccable job, not me. :)

My point is, if you can see your way to giving him a break, think of it this way: At least he cares enough to participate here. The devs don't seem to mind his tone and I, for one, overlook his broken English which may affect how he sounds.

We need more people coming to this forum, not less. I have been coming here every day for a while now and I would say 90% of the time, I am the only registered member in attendance (I don't count "Google Bot," whatever that is. :? ).

I am hooked on this game and the future of this franchise, as I envision and hope it will be. Let's be tolerant and inclusive. Besides, the General does make some valid points.

That's not to say he could not tone it down a bit. That is to say, let's overlook it unless he crosses certain lines. At that time, as we have seen in another situation, the devs will take appropriate action.
- Bru

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