Kriegsmarine bug - can't land seaplane on seaplane tender

Order of Battle is a series of operational WW2 games starting with the Pacific War and then on to Europe!

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Alexander1
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Kriegsmarine bug - can't land seaplane on seaplane tender

Post by Alexander1 » Sun Apr 23, 2017 7:53 am

The game treats seaplanes as land-based aircraft. Thus, it's not possible to land He 59 on AV Greif.

Horst
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Re: Kriegsmarine bug - can't land seaplane on seaplane tende

Post by Horst » Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:00 am

The He 59 has only these mentioned ships in its list of carriers:
CV_Graf_Zeppelin, CV_Jade, AV_Bussard

Only the little Ar 196 seem to be supported by all ship types:
cruiser,battleship,carrier,tender

Longasc
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Re: Kriegsmarine bug - can't land seaplane on seaplane tende

Post by Longasc » Sun Apr 23, 2017 11:16 am

I wondered also already in the very first scenario that my Heinkel couldn't get resupplied by the support ship. Had to find a land based hangar for it, and its labeled a seaplane. Brrr! :(

Simulacra53
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Re: Kriegsmarine bug - can't land seaplane on seaplane tende

Post by Simulacra53 » Sun Apr 23, 2017 11:58 am

Yeah, was kind of strange not being to land my He59.

VKing23
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Re: Kriegsmarine bug - can't land seaplane on seaplane tende

Post by VKing23 » Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:39 pm

This isn't fixed, or is it? Or am I just missing something here? Currently playing Kriegsmarine for the first time now and can't land/supply my HE59 on/with the seaplane tender. Without that feature, the HE59 is pretty much useless! The unit trait of that bomber is "SEAPLANE", so I figured I could use it in combination with a tender ... :(

bru888
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Re: Kriegsmarine bug - can't land seaplane on seaplane tende

Post by bru888 » Sat Jul 22, 2017 11:49 pm

This is going to be one of those times when I appear to be excusing faults in this game because I like it so much - I do, but I won't - yet I don't see this as a bug. An oversight, but not a bug.

Click each image. Here, the Ar 196 fighter plane has no problem "landing" on the seaplane tender (actually, I believe they would land in the sea and be hoisted aboard by crane):
2017-07-22_04.jpg
2017-07-22_04.jpg (609 KiB) Viewed 4386 times
But the much larger He 59 is denied service, for the reason shown:
2017-07-22_06.jpg
2017-07-22_06.jpg (362.78 KiB) Viewed 4386 times
Now you may be crying foul. "That's a bug! One of the unit traits listed for the He 59 is Seaplane!" True, it was a seaplane. But consider the size of the He 59 compared to the Ar 196 (from Wikipedia):

He 59
Length: 17.40 m (57 ft 1 in)
Wingspan: 23.70 m (77 ft 9 in)
Height: 7.10 m (23 ft 3½ in)
Wing area: 153.2 m² (1,649 ft²)
Empty weight: 5,010 kg (11,023 lb)
Loaded weight: 9,119 kg (20,062 lb)

Ar 196
Length: 11 m (36 ft 1 in)
Wingspan: 12.4 m (40 ft 8 in)
Height: 4.45 m (14 ft 7 in)
Wing area: 28.4 m2 (306 sq ft)
Empty weight: 2,990 kg (6,592 lb)
Max takeoff weight: 3,720 kg (8,201 lb)

I don't get the impression that this AV Greif seaplane tender was a very big ship. It was supposed to be capable of doing this, but I would wager for only fighter-size aircraft, not heavy bombers:
SOC_scoutplane_is_hoisted_on_board,_during_recovery_by_USS_Philadelphia_(CL-41).jpg
SOC_scoutplane_is_hoisted_on_board,_during_recovery_by_USS_Philadelphia_(CL-41).jpg (90.57 KiB) Viewed 4386 times
If you look in units.csv, you see the Ar 196-A3 (the fighter model) is listed in the "carrier" column as "[aircraft]carrier,tender." (By the way, the recon version of the Ar 196 is "cruiser,battleship,carrier,tender.")

The carrier column for both He59 models (torpedo and bomb) is shown as "CV_Graf_Zeppelin, CV_Jade, AV_Bussard."

Continued in next post.
- Bru

bru888
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Re: Kriegsmarine bug - can't land seaplane on seaplane tende

Post by bru888 » Sun Jul 23, 2017 12:06 am

So in units.csv, there is an AV Bussard listed but it is not available until May 1942. Sure enough, by the Operation Torch scenario (begins November 8, 1942), the bigger AV Bussard is available for the first time (click the images):
Screenshot 9.jpg
Screenshot 9.jpg (237.47 KiB) Viewed 4386 times
The big turkey He 59 has no problem "landing" on this bigger tender now:
Screenshot 10.jpg
Screenshot 10.jpg (86.74 KiB) Viewed 4386 times
Continued in next post.
- Bru

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Re: Kriegsmarine bug - can't land seaplane on seaplane tende

Post by bru888 » Sun Jul 23, 2017 12:13 am

What about the carriers, you ask? Well, they come along later in the scenario but you can get them earlier by going for this specialization:
Screenshot 11.jpg
Screenshot 11.jpg (98.29 KiB) Viewed 4386 times
Here is the CVL Graf Zeppelin:
Screenshot 12.jpg
Screenshot 12.jpg (24.29 KiB) Viewed 4386 times
No problem landing Big Bird on or near this guy!
Screenshot 13.jpg
Screenshot 13.jpg (62.9 KiB) Viewed 4386 times
So it's not a bug. It's by design that you cannot "land" an He 59 on the smaller AV Greif. Why is it an oversight in my opinion? Because, if you look back at my first post, they should have a better message than what they show as the reason why the He 59 cannot be served by the AV Grief. The He 59 is not land-based; it's just too big.

And why did I go on and on here instead of just cutting to the chase with my last paragraph? Because when I began this series of posts, I did not know the answer (I should have read Horst's post more carefully) but I learned as I investigated and posted. Which was a great deal of fun, I might add. :D
- Bru

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Re: Kriegsmarine bug - can't land seaplane on seaplane tende

Post by Andy2012 » Sun Jul 23, 2017 8:00 am

And once again bru sets the standard in the moderatin' business. Good work.

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Re: Kriegsmarine bug - can't land seaplane on seaplane tende

Post by Erik2 » Sun Jul 23, 2017 9:30 am

Excellent, Bru :!:

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Re: Kriegsmarine bug - can't land seaplane on seaplane tende

Post by bru888 » Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:34 pm

Thanks, guys. You can tell that I got the fever over this game, for sure. :( ( :wink: )

Horst actually answered the question first but I was not exactly sure what he meant until I went looking.
- Bru

GiveWarAchance
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Re: Kriegsmarine bug - can't land seaplane on seaplane tende

Post by GiveWarAchance » Sun Jul 23, 2017 3:38 pm

This forum would be mired back in the dark ages without the incredible clarity that bru consistently provides. Without bru, the hapless devs would be flooded with 'bug reports' about problems that don't exist.

bru888
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Re: Kriegsmarine bug - can't land seaplane on seaplane tende

Post by bru888 » Sun Jul 23, 2017 5:10 pm

GiveWarAchance wrote:This forum would be mired back in the dark ages without the incredible clarity that bru consistently provides. Without bru, the hapless devs would be flooded with 'bug reports' about problems that don't exist.
I assume (hope) that this is "tongue in cheek," GiveWar. It seems that we had a darned good game and forum before I even showed up here, much less when I began to feel confident enough to speak up. It also seems that we already had a first-class forum moderator here before we new guys were recruited to give him some support. But thanks for the compliment. :wink:
- Bru

GiveWarAchance
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Re: Kriegsmarine bug - can't land seaplane on seaplane tende

Post by GiveWarAchance » Sun Jul 23, 2017 6:26 pm

You mean Erik? I think his first love is making campaigns so you are doing a good thing by taking over as mod. Is Erik still around? I think he should hide out in a log cabin with many animal hides deep in a dark forest like a druid and just make campaigns forever more. Oh that was a selfish wish.

bru888
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Re: Kriegsmarine bug - can't land seaplane on seaplane tende

Post by bru888 » Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:12 pm

Erik, don't read that stuff up there ^^^ ! Or, if you do, have mercy on that poor misguided soul! :shock:

(He does have the right idea, though. Rest up, my friend, then please get back to your mod cabin and continue your good work. :wink:)
- Bru

Erik2
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Re: Kriegsmarine bug - can't land seaplane on seaplane tende

Post by Erik2 » Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:52 am

I'm already hiding with two Great Danes, a cat, three dears, a badger, a moose, a wolf, two squirrels and a wife.
I kid you not :D

Andy2012
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Re: Kriegsmarine bug - can't land seaplane on seaplane tende

Post by Andy2012 » Mon Jul 24, 2017 2:39 pm

Erik wrote:I'm already hiding with two Great Danes, a cat, three dears, a badger, a moose, a wolf, two squirrels and a wife.
I kid you not :D
Erik's ark. :mrgreen:

VPaulus
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Re: Kriegsmarine bug - can't land seaplane on seaplane tende

Post by VPaulus » Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:05 pm

Andy2012 wrote:
Erik wrote:I'm already hiding with two Great Danes, a cat, three dears, a badger, a moose, a wolf, two squirrels and a wife.
I kid you not :D
Erik's ark. :mrgreen:
:lol:

GiveWarAchance
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Re: Kriegsmarine bug - can't land seaplane on seaplane tende

Post by GiveWarAchance » Mon Jul 24, 2017 7:04 pm

Erik do all those animals get into fights in your cabin? I bet they make a mess of your pantry when you are out hunting & fishing, especially that badger. The cuter the animal, the bigger the mess it will make of your goods.

VKing23
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Re: Kriegsmarine bug - can't land seaplane on seaplane tende

Post by VKing23 » Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:44 am

OK, first off a "Cheers!" to bru888 for answering my question. Great post! :wink: I really get your point + when playing I already thought that the plane might be a bit oversized for that tiny tender, but on the other hand both are also just unit graphics, which might not mean anything in the end + there was still that trait in the unit description, so that's why my question came up.

It's still misleading gamewise that not all tender can handle every seaplane. There should be a ingame category of sorts (so the player doesn't need to search through some game folders/data files) to figure out right from start which tender can handle what seaplane. By the way, same goes for "Unit LOS".

But that's just I minor thing, not really complaining here.

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