What could come next in OOB

Order of Battle is a series of operational WW2 games starting with the Pacific War and then on to Europe!

Moderators: Order of Battle Moderators, The Artistocrats

TripleCP
Corporal - Strongpoint
Corporal - Strongpoint
Posts: 62
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2015 7:41 pm

Re: What could come next in OOB

Post by TripleCP » Wed Apr 26, 2017 2:48 am

I'm hoping the series gets back to its roots of including both sides of the battles and campaigns. I definitively would've liked to have been able to play as the Chinese in Morning Sun or as the Soviets in Winter War, or a Japanese defensive campaign based on scenarios from both US Marine Corps and the latter half of the Allied Pacific campaign. A British Navy vs. Kriegsmarine campaign would also be interesting if it was based on the premise that Germany had fully implemented Plan Z.
https://www.facebook.com/RussianFront75/

Andy2012
Order of Battle Moderator
Order of Battle Moderator
Posts: 1691
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2015 6:55 pm

Re: What could come next in OOB

Post by Andy2012 » Wed Apr 26, 2017 5:01 am

kondi754 wrote:I don't know why you are so excited about these Japanese, they might have a strong fleet but they didn't show anything else.
They weren't able to produce a decent tank and their planes were burning in the air after the first series. :wink:
I believe everything what was made about the war in the Far East has already been produced and it makes no sense to go back there. :)
Agree with this one. I mean, jungle warfare is pretty intense in real life and maybe in a first-person shooter, but in OoB? Dont think so.
Slow movement, high efficiency loss etc. Guadalcanal as the Japanese is a good example; long, slow, slogging match. Defending as the Marines was kinda dramatic, but that came from the historical background, not so much from an original mission design.
So I dont want to be overly negative without having seen anything, but the idea just doesnt excite me much. I guess there is a reason most games in this field never skip the Wehrmacht for long: iconic battles, tanks, upgrades and versions, famous commanders. Thats money in the bank and OoB should cash in on that before Panzercorps 2 just sucks the market dry (which I think it has the potential to do).

richfed
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 251/1
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz  251/1
Posts: 141
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2013 2:25 pm

Re: What could come next in OOB

Post by richfed » Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:01 pm

I am looking forward to any & all ... but, am chomping at the bit for an allied invasion of Italy, playable from both sides!

TripleCP
Corporal - Strongpoint
Corporal - Strongpoint
Posts: 62
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2015 7:41 pm

Re: What could come next in OOB

Post by TripleCP » Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:00 pm

From the unit list, it definitely looks like a British Commonwealth themed campaign. I believe the developers even stated that they wanted to include an Australia-centered campaign with the original OoB: Pacific release, but ended up having to cut it. A presence of a lot of early war equipment seems to indicate that the fall of Malaya and Singapore will be among the likely scenarios. The lack of units exclusive to the Burma theater lead me to think this will be more western Pacific themed (New Guinea, Borneo, etc.) than CBI. The Thai units could indicate a "what if" scenario where the Allies directly intervene to assist in the 1944 overthrow of Thailand's Japanese-allied government.

WWII Germany is popular but the market is pretty saturated. Also, the game engine / supply system is not very well suited for German blitzkrieg warfare as it is too easy to cut off and reduce the efficiency of tanks and other mechanized units that advance too far in front of the infantry, when that's really the whole point. The game's supply rules would need to be altered to allow tanks to have a limited amount of moves and attacks it could carry out at full or near to full efficiency even if a 3 strength cavalry has "cut it off" from its supply point. Likewise, seizing roads, railways, and bridges connecting an enemy force to its supply points ought to have an effect, whereas currently units are unaffected even if their supply connection runs through major rivers, mountains, etc. Finally, an overrun option like Panzer General II's ought to be considered so that tanks aren't forced to used their one attack per turn to eliminate 1 to 3 strength units which, if ignored, can cut of their supply.

The current system does better with Asia/Pacific style warfare where tanks were generally used in the infantry support role rather than as independent mobile formations. While I'm sure more German-themed DLC is also planned, there's a lot more Asia/Pacific stuff that could also be done.
https://www.facebook.com/RussianFront75/

calmhatchery
2nd Lieutenant - Elite Panzer IVF/2
2nd Lieutenant - Elite Panzer IVF/2
Posts: 738
Joined: Wed May 30, 2012 4:52 pm

Re: What could come next in OOB

Post by calmhatchery » Thu Apr 27, 2017 6:55 am

I totally agree with you TripleCP. IN BLitzkrieg this system of supply it doesnt quite as good as in the Pacific theatre!!!!...For blitzkreig should be a little different system for the tanks for example. Many times one enemy unit in Poland 1939 can cut off all offensive :)

Andy2012
Order of Battle Moderator
Order of Battle Moderator
Posts: 1691
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2015 6:55 pm

Re: What could come next in OOB

Post by Andy2012 » Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:22 am

TripleCP wrote:

WWII Germany is popular but the market is pretty saturated. Also, the game engine / supply system is not very well suited for German blitzkrieg warfare as it is too easy to cut off and reduce the efficiency of tanks and other mechanized units that advance too far in front of the infantry, when that's really the whole point. The game's supply rules would need to be altered to allow tanks to have a limited amount of moves and attacks it could carry out at full or near to full efficiency even if a 3 strength cavalry has "cut it off" from its supply point. Likewise, seizing roads, railways, and bridges connecting an enemy force to its supply points ought to have an effect, whereas currently units are unaffected even if their supply connection runs through major rivers, mountains, etc. Finally, an overrun option like Panzer General II's ought to be considered so that tanks aren't forced to used their one attack per turn to eliminate 1 to 3 strength units which, if ignored, can cut of their supply.

The current system does better with Asia/Pacific style warfare where tanks were generally used in the infantry support role rather than as independent mobile formations. While I'm sure more German-themed DLC is also planned, there's a lot more Asia/Pacific stuff that could also be done.
Kind of disagree with some points here.
1. Popular but saturated - with Panzercorps 2 still months (and years) away, there is still market share to be captured by OoB. And a lot scenarios actually work a lot better and have new dynamics with the supply system. Just check out Eriks 41-42 campaign.
2. Supply system not very well suited - I would say it is the opposite. In the Pacific, cutting off enemy supply was never really a strategy or not that important. Blitzkrieg relies precisely on that. You could maybe add a timer to the tanks like the paras have (supply stash) before their efficiency drops. But a tank regiment is not self-sufficient and needs tons and tons of supplies to keep fighting. So this is realistic. I think you just have to include this in mission design; whinging about your attack force being cut off is just not an effect of bad design.
3. Overrun option - yeah, thought about that one, too. To be honest, you would probably have to playtest it first and see how that balances out. I would give it only to heavy tanks, Panther upwards.

Summed up, the supply system actually was felt for the first time in Blitzkrieg, I think. In the original, it was never so prominent. I agree that it was sometimes frustrating to have your armoured columns cut off, but it never broke the game, but rather added depth.
And the devs would leave a lot of money on the table if they would not return to Europe with DLCs. I bet that Blitzkrieg sold best among the DLCs. And a new campaign with a fresh take on the iconic battles in Afrika or Russia would sell even better. (I would buy it. But probably will skip this one.)

calmhatchery
2nd Lieutenant - Elite Panzer IVF/2
2nd Lieutenant - Elite Panzer IVF/2
Posts: 738
Joined: Wed May 30, 2012 4:52 pm

Re: What could come next in OOB

Post by calmhatchery » Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:54 am

Andy you have right too. Whatever the Devs will made in future Im going to buy all dlc's ..Afrika, Russia, Western front and another DLC from the far east...:) all will be OK for the players..

iAnimator83
Private First Class - Opel Blitz
Private First Class - Opel Blitz
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2016 7:43 pm

Re: What could come next in OOB

Post by iAnimator83 » Thu Apr 27, 2017 11:29 am

TripleCP wrote:From the unit list, it definitely looks like a British Commonwealth themed campaign. I believe the developers even stated that they wanted to include an Australia-centered campaign with the original OoB: Pacific release, but ended up having to cut it. A presence of a lot of early war equipment seems to indicate that the fall of Malaya and Singapore will be among the likely scenarios. The lack of units exclusive to the Burma theater lead me to think this will be more western Pacific themed (New Guinea, Borneo, etc.) than CBI. The Thai units could indicate a "what if" scenario where the Allies directly intervene to assist in the 1944 overthrow of Thailand's Japanese-allied government.

WWII Germany is popular but the market is pretty saturated. Also, the game engine / supply system is not very well suited for German blitzkrieg warfare as it is too easy to cut off and reduce the efficiency of tanks and other mechanized units that advance too far in front of the infantry, when that's really the whole point. The game's supply rules would need to be altered to allow tanks to have a limited amount of moves and attacks it could carry out at full or near to full efficiency even if a 3 strength cavalry has "cut it off" from its supply point. Likewise, seizing roads, railways, and bridges connecting an enemy force to its supply points ought to have an effect, whereas currently units are unaffected even if their supply connection runs through major rivers, mountains, etc. Finally, an overrun option like Panzer General II's ought to be considered so that tanks aren't forced to used their one attack per turn to eliminate 1 to 3 strength units which, if ignored, can cut of their supply.

The current system does better with Asia/Pacific style warfare where tanks were generally used in the infantry support role rather than as independent mobile formations. While I'm sure more German-themed DLC is also planned, there's a lot more Asia/Pacific stuff that could also be done.
I totally agree that European theater is really saturated at moment especially now with 2 new triple AAA games coming out this year.

I would love to see the Australians have their own campaign for a change especially since they spill so much blood on those disease, swamp, jungle infested islands. I would also like to see more campaigns/missions focusing around the India-Burma-Malaysia theater since there was a ton of skirmishes, raids, battles and operations that took place in that area. Also, for those who aren't aware, the Japanese did invade India in 1944 as a last ditch effort to disrupt the British/American forces. It was called the "Battle of Kohima" which was also named by the British as the "Stalingrad of the Far East." I definitely would love to see more content on the Pacific Theater.

For those interested in reading up on this stuff, here are some books. Enjoy. :D

"March or Die: The Story of Wingate's Chindits" by Philip Chinnery
"Forgotten Voices of Burma: The Second World War's Forgotten Conflict" by Gen. Julian Thompson
"The Burma Road: The Epic Story of the China-Burma-India Theater in World War II" by Donovan Webster
"Road of Bones: The Siege of Kohima 1944" by Fergal Keane
"Merrill's Marauders: The Untold Story of Unit Galahad and the Toughest Special Forces Mission of World War II" by Gavin Mortimer

Longasc
Lieutenant Colonel - Panther D
Lieutenant Colonel - Panther D
Posts: 1230
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 6:38 pm

Re: What could come next in OOB

Post by Longasc » Thu Apr 27, 2017 12:05 pm

I hope we get interesting scenarios instead of weird special conditions to meet (do 2 damage to 2 thingies while dancing and doing it arse backwards) and heavily scripted gameplay. The 3rd scenario of Kriegsmarine stopped me wanting to play already. It didn't feel like a battle, more like a "wait for things to happen and do this and that" sequence.

Andy2012
Order of Battle Moderator
Order of Battle Moderator
Posts: 1691
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2015 6:55 pm

Re: What could come next in OOB

Post by Andy2012 » Thu Apr 27, 2017 1:03 pm

Longasc wrote:I hope we get interesting scenarios instead of weird special conditions to meet (do 2 damage to 2 thingies while dancing and doing it arse backwards) and heavily scripted gameplay. The 3rd scenario of Kriegsmarine stopped me wanting to play already. It didn't feel like a battle, more like a "wait for things to happen and do this and that" sequence.
Yeah, mission design would be on top of my wish list, too. I mean, Bataan retreat, Raate Road and Moscow were pretty good and give you a glimpse of the potential this game has when done right. Others were just annoying slogs (100 turns in Tokyo). I dont want to sound unfair, but this is really a concern for me.

calmhatchery
2nd Lieutenant - Elite Panzer IVF/2
2nd Lieutenant - Elite Panzer IVF/2
Posts: 738
Joined: Wed May 30, 2012 4:52 pm

Re: What could come next in OOB

Post by calmhatchery » Thu Apr 27, 2017 1:49 pm

iAnimator83 wrote:
TripleCP wrote:From the unit list, it definitely looks like a British Commonwealth themed campaign. I believe the developers even stated that they wanted to include an Australia-centered campaign with the original OoB: Pacific release, but ended up having to cut it. A presence of a lot of early war equipment seems to indicate that the fall of Malaya and Singapore will be among the likely scenarios. The lack of units exclusive to the Burma theater lead me to think this will be more western Pacific themed (New Guinea, Borneo, etc.) than CBI. The Thai units could indicate a "what if" scenario where the Allies directly intervene to assist in the 1944 overthrow of Thailand's Japanese-allied government.

WWII Germany is popular but the market is pretty saturated. Also, the game engine / supply system is not very well suited for German blitzkrieg warfare as it is too easy to cut off and reduce the efficiency of tanks and other mechanized units that advance too far in front of the infantry, when that's really the whole point. The game's supply rules would need to be altered to allow tanks to have a limited amount of moves and attacks it could carry out at full or near to full efficiency even if a 3 strength cavalry has "cut it off" from its supply point. Likewise, seizing roads, railways, and bridges connecting an enemy force to its supply points ought to have an effect, whereas currently units are unaffected even if their supply connection runs through major rivers, mountains, etc. Finally, an overrun option like Panzer General II's ought to be considered so that tanks aren't forced to used their one attack per turn to eliminate 1 to 3 strength units which, if ignored, can cut of their supply.

The current system does better with Asia/Pacific style warfare where tanks were generally used in the infantry support role rather than as independent mobile formations. While I'm sure more German-themed DLC is also planned, there's a lot more Asia/Pacific stuff that could also be done.
I totally agree that European theater is really saturated at moment especially now with 2 new triple AAA games coming out this year.

I would love to see the Australians have their own campaign for a change especially since they spill so much blood on those disease, swamp, jungle infested islands. I would also like to see more campaigns/missions focusing around the India-Burma-Malaysia theater since there was a ton of skirmishes, raids, battles and operations that took place in that area. Also, for those who aren't aware, the Japanese did invade India in 1944 as a last ditch effort to disrupt the British/American forces. It was called the "Battle of Kohima" which was also named by the British as the "Stalingrad of the Far East." I definitely would love to see more content on the Pacific Theater.

For those interested in reading up on this stuff, here are some books. Enjoy. :D

"March or Die: The Story of Wingate's Chindits" by Philip Chinnery
"Forgotten Voices of Burma: The Second World War's Forgotten Conflict" by Gen. Julian Thompson
"The Burma Road: The Epic Story of the China-Burma-India Theater in World War II" by Donovan Webster
"Road of Bones: The Siege of Kohima 1944" by Fergal Keane
"Merrill's Marauders: The Untold Story of Unit Galahad and the Toughest Special Forces Mission of World War II" by Gavin Mortimer
Thanks for the this interesting TITLES !!!! :)

kverdon
Staff Sergeant - StuG IIIF
Staff Sergeant - StuG IIIF
Posts: 264
Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2010 1:38 am

Re: What could come next in OOB

Post by kverdon » Fri Apr 28, 2017 1:07 am

Though I have not been a fan of the two latest OOB DLC's, I do think that there could be a potential for OOB to return to the fun of the original game if they staged it in the Med. You would have the mix of Naval and Land Combat that made the original game fun. The Naval engagements could be made interesting with the Italian Navy vrs the RN. The Naval battles could be done cooperation with a North Africa Campaign in having scenarios that would provide supply to the Afrika Corps (make Resource points available to the Afrika Corps in the next scenario dependant upon success of the supply convoy?). You could have invasions of Crete and Malta thrown in. The first installment could end a grand engagement of the Torch invasion with an expansion to cover more desert fighting or just a the historical EL Alamein with additional units if you succeed in the Naval War. Sometimes you have to go back to your basics to find our focus.

Andy2012
Order of Battle Moderator
Order of Battle Moderator
Posts: 1691
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2015 6:55 pm

Re: What could come next in OOB

Post by Andy2012 » Fri Apr 28, 2017 5:17 am

kverdon wrote:Though I have not been a fan of the two latest OOB DLC's, I do think that there could be a potential for OOB to return to the fun of the original game if they staged it in the Med. You would have the mix of Naval and Land Combat that made the original game fun. The Naval engagements could be made interesting with the Italian Navy vrs the RN. The Naval battles could be done cooperation with a North Africa Campaign in having scenarios that would provide supply to the Afrika Corps (make Resource points available to the Afrika Corps in the next scenario dependant upon success of the supply convoy?). You could have invasions of Crete and Malta thrown in. The first installment could end a grand engagement of the Torch invasion with an expansion to cover more desert fighting or just a the historical EL Alamein with additional units if you succeed in the Naval War. Sometimes you have to go back to your basics to find our focus.
Would love that DLC, if done right. Mission design, mission design, mission design. Please guys, take your time.

Horst
Colonel - Ju 88A
Colonel - Ju 88A
Posts: 1583
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:22 pm

Re: What could come next in OOB

Post by Horst » Fri Apr 28, 2017 7:47 am

I wouldn’t mind for a more courageous Italian naval support during the North African campaign either, no matter if fictional or not. All these battles were often not very far from the coast, so we have a perfect naval-land condition. A couple of naval-only engagements in between can't hurt either, like a naval-only Crete scenario at beginning.
There is still hope for good things to come, and if not officially, we create something ourselves with desert map type and more units later! 8)

Andy2012
Order of Battle Moderator
Order of Battle Moderator
Posts: 1691
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2015 6:55 pm

Re: What could come next in OOB

Post by Andy2012 » Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:33 am

Horst wrote:I wouldn’t mind for a more courageous Italian naval support during the North African campaign either, no matter if fictional or not. All these battles were often not very far from the coast, so we have a perfect naval-land condition. A couple of naval-only engagements in between can't hurt either, like a naval-only Crete scenario at beginning.
There is still hope for good things to come, and if not officially, we create something ourselves with desert map type and more units later! 8)
Poor Erik. He will have to save this game almost all by himself. :mrgreen:

Post Reply

Return to “Order of Battle Series”