Are escorts even worth it?

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Korvessa
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Are escorts even worth it?

Post by Korvessa » Sat May 19, 2018 4:05 pm

I really like this game – but this sort of thing drives me nuts
Scenario: Winter War – Lapland (level 3)
Fokker (1 star – strength 10) C.X protected by:
BF 109 w/ Juutilainen (5 stars – 10 SP)
BF109 w/ Puhakka (5 stars – 10 SP)
BF109 (1+ star – 10SP)

The Fokker is attacked by a single German BF109 (no stars)
My 3xBF109 only cause 2 casualty points on the German
The German causes 4 casualty points on my Fokker

To steal a phrase from a former co-worker:
Boss, that ain’t right!

Edit: corrected name I had wrong.
Last edited by Korvessa on Sat May 19, 2018 9:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

CoolDTA
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Re: Are escorts even worth it?

Post by CoolDTA » Sat May 19, 2018 4:15 pm

True, the escort mechanics are not the best ones. They don't protect the bomber as they imo should, but at least you get some free shots with your fighters. Though in your case surprisingly ineffective ones. :?

Navman2854
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Re: Are escorts even worth it?

Post by Navman2854 » Sat May 19, 2018 6:03 pm

Yeah, escorted bombers seem to take losses they shouldn't when capable escorts are there. That being said, I ALWAYS escort bombers when I can at a 1:1 ratio at minimum. For me, definitely worth it.

Korvessa
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Re: Are escorts even worth it?

Post by Korvessa » Sat May 19, 2018 6:45 pm

I just conducted an experiment - with escorts. Here are the results:
Everything is at full strength, the number in parins is the experience level
1st number is Finnish loss, 2nd is German


None 5 0
1 x Moraine Saulter (1) 5 0
1 x Myrsky (1) 5 1
1 x Generic BF109 (1) 5 1
1 x BF109 (5) w/ Juutilainen (+3 defense) 4 1
1 x BF109 (5) w/ Puhakka (+2 att/ +2Def, but no range) 5 1
Moraine Saulnier & Myrsky 5 1
2 x Generic BF109 (5) 6 2
2 x BF109 (5) w/ Juutilainen & Puhakka 4 2
3 x BF109 (5) w/ Juutilainen & Puhakka 4 1
3 x BF 109 (5, 5, 1) 5 1
4 x BF109 (5,5,1,1) 5 1

Edited: Corrected name
Last edited by Korvessa on Sat May 19, 2018 9:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

CoolDTA
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Re: Are escorts even worth it?

Post by CoolDTA » Sat May 19, 2018 7:03 pm

I'm not surprised there's little (or not at all) help for the bomber (having witnessed the same), but I am disappointed the enemy losses are so low. The whole mechanics obviously needs fixing.

Krmh, it is actually (Ilmari) Juutilainen, not Ilmarinen. Olli Puhakka had 42 confirmed kills, but Hasse Wind had 75 and was awarded Mannerheim cross twice. Wonder why he was not chosen to be the other FAF ace.

hrafnkolbrandr
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Re: Are escorts even worth it?

Post by hrafnkolbrandr » Sat May 19, 2018 7:24 pm

My unscientific experience has shown that there is little to no benefit to giving ground attackers more than a single escort.

That said, escorting cheap attack aircraft with your expensive fighters is the best way to take out the enemy fighter force with minimal losses. Your ground attackers get chewed up, but your fighters stay effective for much longer. They can then take out the weakened fighters, and still knock out enemy ground attackers before needing to land and repair (saving you on repairs to ground units as well).

cutydt02
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Re: Are escorts even worth it?

Post by cutydt02 » Sat May 19, 2018 8:27 pm

Its another story when you escort high altitude bomber. But true, the escort isnt good enough if your fighters can attack other plane

Korvessa
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Re: Are escorts even worth it?

Post by Korvessa » Sat May 19, 2018 9:32 pm

CoolDTA wrote:I'm not surprised there's little (or not at all) help for the bomber (having witnessed the same), but I am disappointed the enemy losses are so low. The whole mechanics obviously needs fixing.

Krmh, it is actually (Ilmari) Juutilainen, not Ilmarinen. Olli Puhakka had 42 confirmed kills, but Hasse Wind had 75 and was awarded Mannerheim cross twice. Wonder why he was not chosen to be the other FAF ace.
You are absolutely right - and I know better - it is of course Juutilainen - for some unknown reason when I renamed the counter I got it wrong.

The Osprey book on Finnish Air Force says Puhakka was considered the most skilled pilot - though not (obviously) the highest scorer.\
Perhaps that is why his stats don't have a range like Juutilainen's do?

Mojko
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Re: Are escorts even worth it?

Post by Mojko » Sun May 20, 2018 2:24 am

I don't use fighter escorts most of the time. I think better strategy is not to deploy your bombers until the skies are safe. With no bombers to attack, the AI likes to attack my fighters instead even with inferior planes. This makes the sky cleanup much faster and my bombers do not take any damage in the process.
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stan23
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Re: Are escorts even worth it?

Post by stan23 » Sun May 20, 2018 1:12 pm

Hmmm. Never thought of that. Sounds like a real good strategy.

GabeKnight
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Re: Are escorts even worth it?

Post by GabeKnight » Mon May 21, 2018 3:59 pm

Mojko wrote:I don't use fighter escorts most of the time. I think better strategy is not to deploy your bombers until the skies are safe. With no bombers to attack, the AI likes to attack my fighters instead even with inferior planes. This makes the sky cleanup much faster and my bombers do not take any damage in the process.
Yeah, I use recon planes for that. They get shot down quite often, but thus save my bombers and fighters.
They're an AI dogfighter magnet like engineers are an AI artillery magnet... :)

I think the support mechanic (AT also) does somehow stack with the attack values of the unit that's being attacked. The weaker the attacked unit's (counter)attack stats, the less the supporting unit does damage. Sorry, my English sucks sometimes.

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