Desert Rats 1940-42 beta testing

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GabeKnight
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Re: Desert Rats 1940-42 beta testing

Post by GabeKnight » Thu Jun 28, 2018 6:49 am

Erik2 wrote:Added more Axis supply. That's what you get when testers ask for more Italian AA units. :D
Yeah, but the AA amount and placement was good here and it performed excellently. Although the AI seems to have problems with AA/AT switch units (like the 88) sometimes and to decide which mode to use.
Erik2 wrote:Gazala: [...]
All secondary objectives are specific, there is no 'capture or hold' (?).
Presently the sec. obj. reads: "Hold all 5 sec. objectives" and to me it means hold all of them AT ALL TIMES. But actually the trigger is set up to do a count on scenario end only.
Therefore it should read "hold or recapture" or "hold at the end of the mission" IMO. That's what I meant.

Erik2
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Re: Desert Rats 1940-42 beta testing

Post by Erik2 » Thu Jun 28, 2018 7:14 am

Aha, I see . Agree about the wording.

GabeKnight
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Re: Desert Rats 1940-42 beta testing

Post by GabeKnight » Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:04 pm

"12Alamein", DRv2.0

Now that's really the same map again, right? And I have to take the same towns again? :wink: :D I fully understand the concept behind this, but then I'd suggest to add REALLY STRONG static defensive positions somewhere around El Daba to Fuka to discourage the player from further advancing in the previous mission. Otherwise this feels a bit strange from my point of view, you know.

- There's a Greek eng. without transport
- The "destroy all amour" prim. obj. is checked as "failed" from the start and won't recheck even after scenario turn limit.
- Some German plane must be idle, it's sitting on the Fuku airfield landed
- Don't know why, but there's always some Italian recon AB41 (it's the third mission now) that's just sitting there idly to be destroyed and never to attack
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Suggestions
- The Axis attack is rather weak in this version of the map and I have too many (foreign) aux. units already on the map
- Fuka and El Daba are practically not defended, after I break through the Axis front lines - although being primary objectives. You should add some heavy defense perimeter with garrisons, AT, AA (small and large) and definitely some arty support. Historical or not. I reached the towns around turn 15 and there was nothing more to do but to overrun them.
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If I could make a wish, I'd take the Axis (and mine) perimeter from "11Alam", combine them objectives with this mission. Make holding some frontal town until a turn limit sec. objective (e.g. <8-10) couple it with the "destroy a number of Ital/Germ air/armour units" sec. obj. for some really good unit-rewards (spec. points and RPs are not needed, but the Sexton or some B17 would be a really nice core addition). Then add a heavy defensive perimeter around the final two towns and keep the 40-45 turn limit as well as my forces and the RP/turn income. That'd make a PERFECT mission IMO.
(Okay, I'd really be perfect with some naval action on the side, but hey... :wink: )
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Erik2
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Re: Desert Rats 1940-42 beta testing

Post by Erik2 » Fri Jun 29, 2018 8:40 am

Second Alamein

Adding some defensive positions to discourage the player from going 'to far' is a good suggestion.
Rewarding players with unit updates they could/should purchase anyway kind of works against the campaign 'feel'.

There is no Greek transport available, so the por sods must hoof it.
Fixed armor objective.
Fixed inactive air units and increased aggresion level.
Increased Italian unit experience by 1.
Added bunkers, mines and (historical of course) supporting units to Axis primary objectives.

Link updated to v3.4

GabeKnight
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Re: Desert Rats 1940-42 beta testing

Post by GabeKnight » Sat Jun 30, 2018 9:19 pm

"13Torch" DRv2.0

Oh, cool, with naval action again. Now I really DO get to use my King George BB...

- Wow, the simultaneous bombardment of that many coastal guns and fortresses just looks IMPRESSIVE! :D I really hope somebody else also does this feature in their upcoming scenarios in the future...really cool...
- There's a road through a lake near (south of) Boghar
- There are just too many subs in the port of the eastern town of MersElKebir (seven or something clogging the coast for me - and no way out for them!). They were just massacred when they had to resurface. The sub harassment works overall in this scen, but not very good like this.
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- The "Vichy naval attack" popup has no pic and you should add somewhere the phrase [Objectives change], as I get new prim. and sec. objectives
- The "destroy Vichy capital ships" sec. obj. is checked "complete" from the start
- You're giving me too many ships, destroyers especially. On the east with the Vichy naval forces present, that's okay, but in the center and the far west, there's no such heavy naval force necessary
- all the arriving German planes add into the "destroy Vichy air units" sec. obj.; probably not intended
- you may want to change the airstrips and/or add some airfields to the eastern border near DjidJelli instead, otherwise the numerous German planes have nowhere to land/take-off properly
- you should recheck the prim. obj. trigger "capt. port ..." ; it's not triggering complete (even on scenario end)
- also recheck the sec. obj. VP count, as it checked "complete", although I did not take the eastern two airfields yet
- there's a core Polish DD spawning after taking some beach near Alger. You want to change that...
- I've got 16 spec points for this mission, I guess there's some trigger error
- Don't know if the spawn of the second Vichy naval group next to the spawn of my carriers on the same turn is really a good idea. Couldn't save them. And I think they may even count into the "don't lose capital ships" PRIMARY objective... :?
- The prim. obj. "don't lose capital ships" either includes the carriers or is checked "failed" from the start (or both :wink: )
- do cruisers count as capital ships? I've lost an aux. one in the heat of the battle after some twenty or so German planes spawned over my head on turn 10-12... :| So I actually don't know if I've won or lost this scenario... and the two lost carriers are on you!
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Suggestions

- please don't make the same mistake as others and begin spawning enemy units right in the middle of the battlefield next to my units. It can work okay (usually for airforce units), but often doesn't. I'd suggest a predeployed naval force on the western borders and move my battle group a bit to the west. (Or the spawn has to happen away from the player, and for that you'll have to add some more sea hexes on top, and I wouldn't suggest that, the map is big enough as it is).
- why not use my core airforce instead? Yeah, I've got 6 air-CP after I took some airfields, but at that time the land-battle was effectively over
- same goes for my land core units: last mission I've had like 130 land-CP, now only about 30-40. Remove some aux. unis and let me choose my deployment
- my naval deployment should be with the attack on the east and not west! The western forces doesn't need the help of my naval core
- each town with supply output should have a static garrison unit preplaced. The AI always wants to secure supply hexes and thus often breaks formation or cover. And not just in this mission...
- you shouldn't put roads on "rough desert" hexes, they're impassable for all mechanized units and transports. Only trains and infantry can cross.
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Steenv
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The First Rading mission??

Post by Steenv » Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:28 am

How are you supposed to get a Wictory here? The IT trucks cut supply and there are so many of them?? I have played this mission 10+ times now, and only one time got a Draw, and how I got that I dont know, as no trucks got away :|

Erik2
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Re: The First Rading mission??

Post by Erik2 » Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:18 am

Steenv wrote:How are you supposed to get a Wictory here? The IT trucks cut supply and there are so many of them?? I have played this mission 10+ times now, and only one time got a Draw, and how I got that I dont know, as no trucks got away :|
You need to set up your units as a screen preventing the trucks from reaching the exit points.
I may reduce the number of trucks/strengths or add another British aux unit to help out.
It is winnable, but it is not easy.

GabeKnight
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Re: Desert Rats 1940-42 beta testing

Post by GabeKnight » Sun Jul 01, 2018 3:39 pm

"14Race", DRv.2.0

Nice map layout, starts off quite interesting. But the constant new enemy spawns, some literally in the middle of my units, were annoying at best. You should rethink the reinforcements logic in this scen IMO. Rather than deploying them on specific turns, you should use the distance/range checks for activation.

- the first German engineer spawn to retake a city I went through the previous turn was okay, but the second German spawn a few turns later on the SAME, already RETAKEN city was a bit much...
- also the spawns (land and naval) near LaCoulette on turns 30/35-ish happened directly next to my units, I even had several planes landed there...lost souls now...
- I don't know how this mission was planned to play out, but the "allied-french" never did anything up until turn 29ish - and not much after that either. And there's some trigger warning message on turn 22. Also the predeployed "enemy-french" kind of remained stationary the whole time. But the one para-attack in the west worked, as well as some minor attack from the far south...
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- The sec. obj. rewards of adding and subtracting RP is messed up I think. I had like over 1000RP at scenario start, and practically nothing left on turn 10-15. At some point that changed and I had over 4000RP at scen end. Recheck the triggers on this one, please.
(Although it was a nice, tough challenge with zero RPs and zero income for a while... :wink: )
- many undefended sec. objectives
- both the prim. and the sec. objective triggers don't work. Maybe there's a problem with the split-factions/alliances...(?)
- The spawned Flak inside a transport in the south (near Kairovan AF) never got out of transport. Maybe some kind of assignment error?
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- none of the naval enemy transports, predeployed or spawn, disembarked (or moved)
- the predeployed enemy paras in air transports also never moved or disembarked
- the enemy airforce, on the other hand, worked alright as it was :D

- It would be good to be notified (briefing or some popup) about the irregular increase of land, air and naval command points during the whole mission. I get it, reinforcements over time....still, it's nice to know such things in advance...
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It's hard to really judge this scen as I think much of didn't worked as intended...But the concept is sound...and with a little refinement... :wink: :)

My suggestion: Play this mission for yourself and see what I mean. The general idea is good, but I'm sorry to say, it's quite messed up as it is now. :!:

That concludes my play-through of Desert Rats. Thanks, Erik, for a good time, as always. :D

Steenv
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First rading mission only Draw

Post by Steenv » Sun Jul 01, 2018 4:30 pm

Only draw, but no trucks got away??
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GabeKnight
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Re: Desert Rats 1940-42 beta testing

Post by GabeKnight » Sun Jul 01, 2018 4:52 pm

"1Border" DRv3.4

No problems with this one, don't know if it has the number of trucks already decreased. But it's true, that all of my four units are needed for it. Otherwise they'd cut my supply too easily.

- The prim. obj. has no "complete" trigger
- You could add an objective for the enemy, so that I'll get a defeat after one truck exits the map, and won't have to play until turn limit
- And how about some reward for destroying all the trucks (even the pesky recon vehicle)? Would've been nice... :wink:
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Nice small mission at campaign start. Cool. :)

Erik2
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Re: Desert Rats 1940-42 beta testing

Post by Erik2 » Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:04 am

Gabe, thank you very much for the detailed feedback. Very helpful.

Link updated to v3.5

Torch:
Redeployed a number of Vichy subs.
Added graphic to Vichy naval message.
Fixed Vichy naval objective.
Deployed the Vichy naval groups along the map edge, increased distance to Allied ships.
Fixed Vichy/luftwaffe air objective.
Replaced eastern Vichy airstrips with airfields.
Fixed ports/airfields objective.
Added beaches/airstrips objective.
Polish DD is now an aux unit.
Reduced specialisation points rewards.
Fixed battleships/carriers objective, removed cruisers.
It is difficult to replace the Allied carrier air units with core land air units.
Replaced US air/land reinforcements with British command points.
Replaced aux British naval units with command points, and I hope the player has enough naval reserves/resources to be able to deploy...
Various garrison changes.
Fixed road/rough desert.

Race For Tunis:
The spawning units behind enemy lines are para support units (AT/Art/Eng). Only way to add these, but I have added a trigger that the location + all nearby hexes must be Axis occupied.
It is not easy to add anything remotely intelligent to the really late Axis reinforcements if the Allies have already captured ie La Coulette. German HQ kept reinforcing Tunis even though it was a lost cause.
Free French/Vichy units are ordered to 'search & destroy' after T20. Until then these units are just bumps in the road.
The sec objs add/remove resources are simplified, didn't work correctly.
Added garrisons to undefended sec objs.
Can't find any other issues with the objs.
Replaced 88mm Flak truck with SdKfz7.
Redeployed convoy units to arrive in port with 'search & destroy' orders.
Don't know why the FJs would not move. Changed the FJ formation orders slightly and set them to 'ignore enemy'.
Added reinforcement info to briefing.

Steenv
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Desert Rats 1940-42 beta testing - Operation E

Post by Steenv » Tue Jul 03, 2018 5:56 am

Hi

First thx for a nice campaign love playing it. Operation E, the firs IT offensive after the Raiding missions will not load/play. I´m using the Desert Rats 1940-43_3.4.zip :mrgreen:
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Erik2
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Re: Desert Rats 1940-42 beta testing

Post by Erik2 » Tue Jul 03, 2018 9:42 am

I assume you mean Operazione E.
This scenario worked fine in the old campaign. But somehow the deployment phase does not appear for the British.
I've checked both the scenario and the campaign and everything looks fine.

Maybe some of our resident forensic experts could take a look...

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Re: Desert Rats 1940-42 beta testing

Post by bru888 » Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:48 pm

Erik2 wrote:I assume you mean Operazione E.
This scenario worked fine in the old campaign. But somehow the deployment phase does not appear for the British.
I've checked both the scenario and the campaign and everything looks fine.

Maybe some of our resident forensic experts could take a look...
I'm waiting for the proper moment to do another CSI sweep through this while Gabe and others give you some valuable gameplay feedback. Are all scenarios in place now? You had said some were incomplete . . .
- Bru

Erik2
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Re: Desert Rats 1940-42 beta testing

Post by Erik2 » Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:56 pm

All scenarios are in place now.
Please go ahead if you have the time.

GabeKnight
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Re: Desert Rats 1940-42 beta testing

Post by GabeKnight » Tue Jul 03, 2018 9:23 pm

It was my pleasure, Erik..... like working and having fun at the same time! :D
I wish I could do something like this for a living...
Erik2 wrote: I assume you mean Operazione E.
This scenario worked fine in the old campaign. But somehow the deployment phase does not appear for the British.
I've checked both the scenario and the campaign and everything looks fine.

Maybe some of our resident forensic experts could take a look...
I don't want to cross jurisdiction with Bruce, CSI, but I can help with that:

I assume it's a result of you cropping the map...the problem's within the "Airstrips/Mersa Matruh" trigger in particular, but you also have to adjust the other two. The "check units near hex" target hexes are pointing to a non-existent location, thus producing the error. You're welcome! :)

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bru888
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Re: Desert Rats 1940-42 beta testing

Post by bru888 » Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:27 pm

GabeKnight wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 9:23 pm
I don't want to cross jurisdiction with Bruce, CSI, but I can help with that . . .
Gabe, don't ever worry about such a thing as long as I can count on you for the same. When I do my sweep, I may inadvertently mention something that you already have as well. This has gotten to be a very big thread and I don't want to have to waste time scouring previous commentary in order to avoid stepping on toes. :wink:

A couple more thoughts (as well as trying to get used to stuff in this new-style forum, such as lists):
  • There's more than enough "Erik" to go around! The man is a machine. Plus, there are a couple of other creative guys around here that we should support.
  • What you do is more in tune with gameplay, which is very valuable and where I am deficient (I don't like spoiling my later fun). When you see something, you very capably investigate it and find the solution. But what I do is to find stuff that perhaps is not apparent in gameplay and perhaps could be overlooked altogether. For example, a randomising trigger that is not working and will never work but its failure is not noticed by either the designer or the gameplayer. That is where I can be helpful.
So, you and I mesh even though we may repeat each other and there's more than enough work to do. It's cool. 8)
- Bru

Erik2
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Re: Desert Rats 1940-42 beta testing

Post by Erik2 » Wed Jul 04, 2018 9:34 am

I knew that reaching out to my trusted underlings would fix this :)
I also checked the other cropped scenarios.
Link updated to v3.6

GabeKnight
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Re: Desert Rats 1940-42 beta testing

Post by GabeKnight » Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:11 am

I was just kidding with the "jurisdiction" stuff, of course... :) I like those small riddles and solving them.
bru888 wrote:
  • There's more than enough "Erik" to go around! The man is a machine. Plus, there are a couple of other creative guys around here that we should support.
True, but many of "them" gone more or less inactive with scenario design lately, like "The Man with the Two Identities" :wink: , Mr. T and some others. I've played Fabio's and Duplex's scens and they don't seem to really need help with the editor. Am I forgetting someone? So who's left? Erik "The Machine"! And I'll gladly take whatever he creates... :D

But you're right, I'll still have to finish the excellent campaign from JCE, thanks for the reminder... but he's really starving my units there... I don't like that very much. :?
(Shards also did a scen, but he's considered an "official" asset :wink: )
bru888 wrote:
  • What you do is more in tune with gameplay, which is very valuable and where I am deficient (I don't like spoiling my later fun).
Yeah, that's a bit of the downside to that. Haven't played the official release of the Sandstorm DLC yet, for example. But I'll usually replay all scens/campaigns some time later with my mod. It's way more fun like that anyways.

Mascarenhas
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Re: Desert Rats 1940-42 beta testing

Post by Mascarenhas » Wed Jul 04, 2018 9:07 pm

Second Bardia
Hi gents,

Please check results spces. I´ve achieved both tasks in the 13th round, but got only a minor victory, even after wiping out every axis unit present in the map.

Best wishes an congrats for the fine oevre d´art.

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