Afrika Korps beta test

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Andy2012
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Re: Afrika Korps beta test

Post by Andy2012 » Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:09 am

@Erik: I did take a close look at my savegames to jog my memory and I can now post a few more notes. Do you still work on this or are you too occupied with betatesting and real life? Anyways, thanks for this campaign. The desert was just what I needed after all the cold in the Ardennes... :mrgreen:

Operation Brevity: There is just no point in deploying any forward troops. Rather, you just consolidate around two-three defense points. Maybe add a few aux troops in the front so you can actually try to save these?

Battleaxe - this one is fun and almost ready. As in Brevity, it feels odd that you do really well with leaving the front objectives empty and let the British take them. Maybe add a few aux units here, e.g. Halfaya Pass? A winning strategy was also to block the road with mines. English troops never managed to fully remove them.

Dash to the wire - Tobruk is way too powerful and too aggressive. As far as I remember, they mostly waited to be relieved. I think if you put lots of heavy inf between the bunkers and AA behind them, this should work. Also, what happens when I actually manage to take it in the first mission? (Theoretically...)

Second offensive: I like this one, it is a tough back and forth. The extra units already deployed should be aux and have exp. After all, by now the Afrikakorps is a bunch of seasoned veterans.

Gazala Line: This is the mission I always had in mind when thinking how thrilling a Panzercorps port to OoB would be. Swinging around the south, aiming for their supply points, cutting off their front and winning against a bigger adversary - how awesome would that be? However, this mission needs some trigger and supply tweaking for this to work properly. I had the Panzercorps mission in the back of my head when deploying, but some things just dont work.
1. I punch through the southern minefields and kill the french garrison. Then I push along the road towards the airfield in the southeast. In Panzercorps, there is a message that a counterattack from the desert is coming. You need to add this message here, too. Otherwise, I get owned. That Italian bomber is useless. I get a Grant, but it is only aux, so I lose it afterwards.
2. There is no SAS attack. I camped those airfields for nothing. Odd. However, there are six (!!!) Spitfires coming from the desert swarming my airfields in the rear. This is a bit unfair.
3. I suggest you switch the objectives and triggers around to make this work. I took Tobruk, but had to cheat to finish this with a victory even though I consider my playthrough here a success. After taking the airfield and defeating the counterattack, I took the supply node on the road, punched through the weak bunker on the road and finally seized the (heavily defended) Tobruk. However, even when cutting off the British front's supply from the rear, north (Gruppe Hecker) and south, they never moved and had ample supply to hold out forever. I ran out of time to knock them out. I suggest you move all supply to Tobruk and the road along the coast and turn the objective into "seize Tobruk and 4 objectives" or make the front retreat automatically when Tobruk is taken. Otherwise, this mission will never work out fully.

Malta: I gave up after one turn. I flew a recon over the incoming British battle fleet and noped out. I think you dont need to scale up my forces because this would clutter the map too much. (Reminds of Crete back then...) Rather, scale back the British in terms of AA, aggressiveness, coastal batteries, naval assets and airforce. (So across the board) Right now, this is unwinnable.

GiveWarAchance
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Re: Afrika Korps beta test

Post by GiveWarAchance » Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:14 am

Okay thank for answers.
I watched a bunch of those TIK videos which were good and I think you said those were your videos.

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Re: Afrika Korps beta test

Post by GiveWarAchance » Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:19 am

I played some Sandstorm today. It is good but an old problem re-emerged from the dark depths.
When my units like arty and tanks turn red and cannot attack cause of lack of supply and stay that way for the rest of the mission, is there some way to fix them? They were still in my controlled ground so not cut off.

Andy2012
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Re: Afrika Korps beta test

Post by Andy2012 » Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:28 pm

GiveWarAchance wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:14 am
Okay thank for answers.
I watched a bunch of those TIK videos which were good and I think you said those were your videos.
No, I am not a youtuber. Definitely not. Just liked his work.
If your units cannot attack, leave them alone for a turn or two on your ground to recover efficiency. Best if they are not attacked or shelled during that time. After some rest, they should be back to normal.

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Re: Afrika Korps beta test

Post by GiveWarAchance » Sat Feb 02, 2019 4:32 pm

Okay hehe I thought that TIK gentleman was you all along so I was thinking "That Andy2012 dude is really impressive."

Thanks for advice on regaining efficiency. I thought all along it was a lack of supply problem so I was moving them around trying to get into a better supplied area.

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Re: Afrika Korps beta test

Post by Andy2012 » Sat Feb 02, 2019 7:15 pm

Alam Halfa: Same as Gazala Line - porting this 1:1 from Panzercorps to OoB needs more tweaks.
I deployed as I did in Panzercorps, giving the Italians the job to hold in the north and the Wehrmacht to push around the southern edge in the desert.
This works well, but is impossible in 20 turns. Frustratingly, the British get wayyyyyy too many resources to reinforce their crippled units and get spawns upon spawns
of airforce bombers and Spitfires. I think my strategy (swing around the south, aim for the supply node) works out - but 20 turns and the amount of reinforcements the AI gets
make this impossible.
Suggestions to make this work:
1. More turns. At least 30. Better 35.
2. Aux units to hold the front. I was always expecting an attack as I was in Gazala, but it never came. Guess I have too much Panzercorps in my head. The AI just loiters.
3. More Luftwaffe control. Fewer Italian air cp. They are useless, mostly.
4. Supply centered on the road. No supply on the front.
5. Less British arty on Alam Halfa ridge.
6. Make cutting all British forces off an option to win this. Seriously, this is one of the greatest opportunities to show off OoB possibilities and it is not used to the full.

Generally, the British are too strong and have too many resources to resupply (almost all missions). The layout for a fun mission is there, but the turn limit is always too scarce and the aux troops from Panzercorps are missing. With a few tweaks, this could be awesome.

Erik2
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Re: Afrika Korps beta test

Post by Erik2 » Sat Feb 02, 2019 7:36 pm

Thanks Andy.
Added to my growing list of AK issues...

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Re: Afrika Korps beta test

Post by Andy2012 » Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:57 pm

Erik2 wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 7:36 pm
Thanks Andy.
Added to my growing list of AK issues...
I will report more as I get around to do this. This might take a while as I rose in rank and responsibilities in my real job (and pay and clout, so I shouldnt complain).
But this is pretty important to me since you put so much effort in this and I love AK above all in the Panzercorps universe. So it should be perfect and I will put all my available few minutes into this.

@all: We should all applaud Erik for his efforts to keep this community alive and provide us with free (yes, somebody is doing this!) entertainment. Without him, we would all be worse off. Post below. (I mean it. We all owe him for his efforts, not only in AK.)

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Re: Afrika Korps beta test

Post by GiveWarAchance » Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:08 am

Thank you Erik for adding content. I like the Africa campaign in Panzercorps too even though I found it quite difficult. I had to do most missions 2 or 3 times to pass them without inordinate losses or timeouts. There is a nice allied campaign too that includes the Africa missions from the British point of view and the USA campaign includes a lot of African missions too.

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Re: Afrika Korps beta test

Post by Andy2012 » Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:26 pm

Erik2 wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 7:36 pm
Thanks Andy.
Added to my growing list of AK issues...
Another thing I would modify is the amount of British resources per round. Right now, most missions are very difficult. You are massively outnumbered and have to use inferior Italian equipment to a large degree since the few Wehrmacht CP you get go mostly into tanks, Stugs and good fighters. If you manage to push the British back (OoB rules, it is hard to fully destroy a unit), they just reinforce. This feels very frustrating and on a tight turn limit makes winning impossible. I think setting their income to zero per round and giving them just a small stash would improve this. Also, please no more zero exp core units while the British start with 2-3 star per default.

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Re: Afrika Korps beta test

Post by WarHomer » Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:16 pm

I agree with Andy on Malta and I also found the British air in Gazala Line a bit much, but otherwise I wouldn´t change too much difficulty wise. I play on the highest diff and manage fine (and actually better in the first half with all Italian units).

Andy´s other observations gamewise I agree with.

The Arab volunteers are still undoable for me. They get slaughtered as they are so much weaker than regular units and I won´t reinforce them by air (if I even could).

Erik2
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Re: Afrika Korps beta test

Post by Erik2 » Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:07 pm

I will probably halve the Allies resource income in each scenario. This should not change the scenarios drastically, but prevent/reduce the endless AI repairs.
Funny about Malta, this is a rather straight conversion of the PzC scenario. I wonder if it is only the OOB mechanics that make it more difficult in that game system.

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Re: Afrika Korps beta test

Post by GabeKnight » Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:53 pm

Andy2012 wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:26 pm
Another thing I would modify is the amount of British resources per round. Right now, most missions are very difficult. You are massively outnumbered and have to use inferior Italian equipment to a large degree since the few Wehrmacht CP you get go mostly into tanks, Stugs and good fighters. If you manage to push the British back (OoB rules, it is hard to fully destroy a unit), they just reinforce. This feels very frustrating and on a tight turn limit makes winning impossible. I think setting their income to zero per round and giving them just a small stash would improve this. Also, please no more zero exp core units while the British start with 2-3 star per default.
Andy, you sound exactly like myself when I've first started playing Eriks campaigns (you can even look it up). Too much enemy RP, too hard to kill and always coming back, difficult turn limits.... :wink:
But then I've realized, that I've just been too pampered by the stock campaigns...
Man up, soldier! :P

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Re: Afrika Korps beta test

Post by Andy2012 » Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:46 am

GabeKnight wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:53 pm
Andy, you sound exactly like myself when I've first started playing Eriks campaigns (you can even look it up). Too much enemy RP, too hard to kill and always coming back, difficult turn limits.... :wink:
But then I've realized, that I've just been too pampered by the stock campaigns...
Man up, soldier! :P
Yeah, the jump in difficulty is considerable. I think what sets these apart is that you can win the official DLCs mostly in the first try. This port is a lot of retrying, shuffling around, restarting, buying different units, moving roles around Italians and Wehrmacht ('if I let the Italians clear the minefields with engineers, I have more CP for Wehrmacht tanks and Stugs').
Another thing: Erik, please let me have a Luftwaffe core that is at least 12 CP in the later missions. 2 FW 190s, 2 Stukas. The Italians can support this with some fighters and recon, but the sheer amount of Spitfires is otherwise difficult. Also, having pilot rotation for the Italians from the start would help a bit with exp.
Anyways, the ingredients for a great fun and free campaign are there. Just needs a few tweaks here and there.

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Re: Afrika Korps beta test

Post by WarHomer » Tue Feb 05, 2019 11:29 am

Erik2 wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:07 pm
I will probably halve the Allies resource income in each scenario. This should not change the scenarios drastically, but prevent/reduce the endless AI repairs.
Funny about Malta, this is a rather straight conversion of the PzC scenario. I wonder if it is only the OOB mechanics that make it more difficult in that game system.
Re. Malta, the Brits are way too aggressive compared to the PzC and you get slaughtered on the beach, where you get better time to land in PzC, and also the British navy is harder to destroy than in PzC since you have massive fighter opposition and dont hit as hard as in PzC (where you could basically one shot a ship with a high exp strategic bomber).

Erik2
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Re: Afrika Korps beta test

Post by Erik2 » Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:52 pm

I have started updating all the Afrika Korps scenarios.
I recommend anyone playing this campaign to take a break until I'm finished.
There are 24 scenarios so it will take some time.

Here's the overall plan and an overview over the first finished scenarios.

General:
Reduced Allied land experience from 3 to 2 and air/naval experience from 4 to 2 in 1941 scenarios.
Added dialog to transfer German land/air command points to the Italians in a few scenarios. Resource income is not affected.
Replaced core reinforcements with resources for purchase in applicable scenarios.

1Aufklarung: Replaced at start core units with resources to purchase your own.

2Mdauuar: Fixed primary objs. Removed silver flags.

3Brevity: Added Axis aux unit at forward locations. Reduced Axis core command points to compensate for the extra units. Added sec aux units obj.

4Battleaxe: Changed primary obj.

5Dash: Replaced concrete bunkers at Tobruk with standard bunkers. Moved one primary obj to sec.

6SecOff: Replaced Axis on-map core units with aux units.

7Gasala: Grant reward is now a core unit. Replaced Tobruk concrete bunkers with regular bunkers. Removed supply in non-objective villages and towns. Reduced Allied supply. Fixed SAS activation. Changed primary obj.

8Herkules: Reduced British aggressiveness from 75 to 50. Added more Italian air command points. Added more deployment zones and all aux units are now freely deployable. Changed primary obj.

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Re: Afrika Korps beta test

Post by Mojko » Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:40 am

Here is some of my feedback on this awesome campaign :D. This feedback predates your recent changes, but you may find it useful anyway. I played on middle difficulty. I noticed that lot of the time I wasn't able to get the promised specialization point for a secondary objective. This occurred multiple times during this campaign.

Mission 1: Aufklarung

I think it's too easy to take Tobruk, in fact it's actually easier to just take it instead of going around and risking getting cut off supply. I recommend placing mines around Tobruk and even adding second artillery (a more heavy piece there).

Mission 3: Operation Brevity

This mission is too easy - map wipe at turn 15. I recommend adding static enemy units to guard the rear supply points.

Mission 5: Dash to the wire

I was able to wipe Tobruk area, so I think stronger defenses are needed. Also, Tobruk garrison is way too aggressive. Remove any armored units from the garrison and add more heavy infantry. Move artillery units to the back so they won't be able to fire much outside the Tobruk defensive perimeter. The enemy artillery is the reason I had to take Tobruk which I feel should not be a priority here.

I was able to hold all supply points around Bardia, but I feel more supply needs to be transferred there. Also, you shouldn't be able to attack the difficult terrain tile between Fort Capuzzo and Solumn from the south.

Gather 4 units in the assembly area objective displays only 0 / 3, it should be x / 4.

Mission 6: Second offensive

Scenario too easy - map wipe at turn 20. Deployed units should be auxiliary, not core.

Keep up the good work!
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Re: Afrika Korps beta test

Post by Andy2012 » Wed Feb 06, 2019 8:56 am

@Erik, Mojko: I guess I had too much Panzercorps: AK in the back of my head when deploying and fighting these missions. Mojkos notes suggest that it is obviously easy to break all maps if you dont know the original or chose to ignore it.
(BTW, I still miss the original Afrikakorps Soundtrack. Had a mosquito sound in there that always made me look around the room looking for a bloodsucking beast that wasnt there...aah, memories.)

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Re: Afrika Korps beta test

Post by Erik2 » Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:22 am

If some players find the scenarios too easy and other players too hard, maybe the play balance is not too bad ? :D
I do appreciate all suggestions and will probably even implemented some of them :wink:

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Re: Afrika Korps beta test

Post by Andy2012 » Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:51 am

Erik2 wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:22 am
If some players find the scenarios too easy and other players too hard, maybe the play balance is not too bad ? :D
I do appreciate all suggestions and will probably even implemented some of them :wink:
I guess it gets easier when replaying or some people's playstyle fits more neatly into the missions. But after Endsieg, this was a step up. Sure, 44-45 gives you a heavily outnumbered Wehrmacht as well, but at least you have exp and better equipment. That is not happening here.
And dont you dare implement suggestions! :wink: :mrgreen:

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