Mistakes vere made, mein Fuhrer - Endsieg Review and Discuss

Order of Battle is a series of operational WW2 games starting with the Pacific War and then on to Europe!

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CoolDTA
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Re: Mistakes vere made, mein Fuhrer - Endsieg Review and Discuss

Post by CoolDTA » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:58 pm

Thank you for all your AARs, Andy, and congrats for finishing the campaign with flying colours! :) Perhaps you could post your core at the end - would be interesting to see it.
Andy2012 wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:48 pm
The only thing that worries me a bit was that my standard approach (mixed Kampfgruppen, hug your AT at all times, broad front, no elite reinforcements, all fighters) worked so well across almost all missions.
Or maybe lvl 3 is just no longer a challenge for you because you are a better player than before? So lvl 5 next time maybe? I have thought of that myself because my approach also works well (tho it is different from yours) but being a wuss :oops: haven't dared to do it.

CoolDTA
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Re: Mistakes vere made, mein Fuhrer - Endsieg Review and Discuss

Post by CoolDTA » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:05 pm

GabeKnight wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:04 pm
I've noticed a rather strange behaviour of the AI many times, also apparent in the screenshot: moving its units into the FOW and not attacking an easy -high value- target. It's...as if the AI couldn't attack my units that it encounters in the FOW and that it didn't see before it moved.
This behaviour is especially exploitable with AI arty. I think some AI unit types should not move or be taken out of the computational cycle until the very last moment of AI calculations for the turn. So many vasted opportunities with idle AI arty positions when a valid target is seen only by some unit during the last cycle of a different AI team.
You are right and it is easy to see that behaviour in LP-videos. There definitely should be one additional cycle at the end of AI's turn to check out if there are new, earlier unrevealed attack opportunities there.
GabeKnight wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:04 pm
And I've still got to find out how to use the "Uhu" unit properly... :|
When I read that, my first thought was "what..." because the eagle owl in this game is not the one that comes in my mind first. :lol:

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Mercutio
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Re: Mistakes vere made, mein Fuhrer - Endsieg Review and Discuss

Post by Mercutio » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:49 pm

I do feel the AI gets its turn out of sequence often. Artillery should hit before and attack on that unit. Same with air. I haven't noticed the AI not attacking weak units in other DLCs though.

I don't have Endsieg because mistakes in availability and upgrades that haven't been patched is enough for me not to get it as they are very important.

Andy2012
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Re: Mistakes vere made, mein Fuhrer - Endsieg Review and Discuss

Post by Andy2012 » Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:38 am

Mercutio wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:49 pm
I do feel the AI gets its turn out of sequence often. Artillery should hit before and attack on that unit. Same with air. I haven't noticed the AI not attacking weak units in other DLCs though.

I don't have Endsieg because mistakes in availability and upgrades that haven't been patched is enough for me not to get it as they are very important.
I finished the current version and it works fine. The FW190F issue is definitely a big one - but I had a Panzerkrieg core with enough of them already.

Oh yeah, my core is basically 4-5 AT Jadgtigers (former Stugs, former Jagdpanthers), 2-3 Kingtigers, 2 K17 long range arty, 3-4 Nebelwerfers (not Wurfrahmen!), rest regular inf and 2-3 engineers. Fighters is all Me262.

CoolDTA
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Re: Mistakes vere made, mein Fuhrer - Endsieg Review and Discuss

Post by CoolDTA » Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:44 am

Andy2012 wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:38 am
Oh yeah, my core is basically 4-5 AT Jadgtigers (former Stugs, former Jagdpanthers), 2-3 Kingtigers, 2 K17 long range arty, 3-4 Nebelwerfers (not Wurfrahmen!), rest regular inf and 2-3 engineers. Fighters is all Me262.
You were not kidding with those SPATs. Attacking anything protected by a Jagdtiger is like initiating a self-destruct. :lol:

Andy2012
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Re: Mistakes vere made, mein Fuhrer - Endsieg Review and Discuss

Post by Andy2012 » Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:38 pm

@CoolDTA: Yeah, if you prevent them from getting flanked, they are nearly indestructible and hold reasonably well against infantry, too. My inf just does flank cover and finishes off weakened units. But the SPATs set the pace, everything else is just support or preparation (Nebelwerfers). I think that this approach is almost a bit too successful, even though I would not consider it an exploit or something in the range of that massive K17 group some players have shown here.

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Re: Mistakes vere made, mein Fuhrer - Endsieg Review and Discuss

Post by Halvralf » Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:26 pm

Andy2012 wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:38 pm
@CoolDTA: Yeah, if you prevent them from getting flanked, they are nearly indestructible and hold reasonably well against infantry, too. My inf just does flank cover and finishes off weakened units. But the SPATs set the pace, everything else is just support or preparation (Nebelwerfers). I think that this approach is almost a bit too successful, even though I would not consider it an exploit or something in the range of that massive K17 group some players have shown here.
Why are you referring to having alot of K17 as an exploit? The game let's us buy them and they are expensive but isn't that up to each and everyone to choose what units to play with Andy? The problem is probably that they are OP and has been discussed.
"They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance."

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Re: Mistakes vere made, mein Fuhrer - Endsieg Review and Discuss

Post by Andy2012 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:49 am

@Halvralf: Easy, never meant any disrespect. But from what I read here, some players suggested that this was very and sometimes too powerful. Balancing this game is hard and players will find weak spots.

WarHomer
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Re: Mistakes vere made, mein Fuhrer - Endsieg Review and Discuss

Post by WarHomer » Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:27 pm

I see no exploitation problem in any of them. They both have their strengths and weaknesses, and no more exploitable than in example all inf and AT, or whatever other nondiverse strategy a player could adopt. Neither are the one or the other absolutely necessary or a sure way to win all encounters. I like diversity and sometimes use a few (1-2) and sometimes many (5-6) of one or the other.

I rarely use self propelled artillery (but would like to) as I find them less efficient than the K17 and nebelwerfers simply because the self propelled are 5 CP´s.

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Re: Mistakes vere made, mein Fuhrer - Endsieg Review and Discuss

Post by 13obo » Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:34 pm

The hummel is quite a good alternative to K17 as it has only 1 less inf/mech attack values and costs 1 more cp, but much more mobility, durability, and 5 hex range, making it a very versatile option for both the defensive and offensive scenarios that Endsieg offers.

WarHomer
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Re: Mistakes vere made, mein Fuhrer - Endsieg Review and Discuss

Post by WarHomer » Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:06 pm

13obo wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:34 pm
The hummel is quite a good alternative to K17 as it has only 1 less inf/mech attack values and costs 1 more cp, but much more mobility, durability, and 5 hex range, making it a very versatile option for both the defensive and offensive scenarios that Endsieg offers.
Yes, that and the self propelled nebelwerfer is what I rarely use, but they are 1 CP more, which means 5 K17 and nebelwerfers instead of 4 of the others.

They should have the same CP cost in my opinion, then I would use a mix of both.

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