Mistakes vere made, mein Fuhrer - Endsieg Review and Discuss

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Halvralf
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Re: Mistakes vere made, mein Fuhrer - Endsieg Review and Discuss

Post by Halvralf » Sun Nov 18, 2018 1:31 pm

Andy2012 wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 12:43 pm
GabeKnight wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 12:39 pm

Thanks. I've asked, because there was still the possibility left, that even with the counter being on the fritz during mission one, the objective would still check complete okay and award the bonus tank afterwards.
Odd, I never had that objective misfire in the latest versions of the beta and the final DLC product. Did the damage, got the Panther. Maybe it doesnt work if you use Panthers in your core? :shock:
It is confirmed that using core Panther D's in the scenario breaks it. I got the counter and popup when I upgraded my Panther D's during the battle to A version.
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Andy2012
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Re: Mistakes vere made, mein Fuhrer - Endsieg Review and Discuss

Post by Andy2012 » Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:29 pm

Erik2 wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 12:51 pm
Have you tried using the 'Place inline' option?
inline.jpg

another one
inline.jpg
Yeah, I place one, then try to place another and then the preview says "cant find the file anymore", even though I uploaded it. Weird. Maybe file size? Or I need to follow a certain pattern?

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Re: Mistakes vere made, mein Fuhrer - Endsieg Review and Discuss

Post by Andy2012 » Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:33 pm

Halvralf wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 1:30 pm

Wow lot of Stugs!!!! I only used one Stug in this scenario. There are alot of aux AT to use one 75mm one Nashorn and one Marder II and one 5cm and instead I have invested in Panthers and Tigers and the Bofors 40mm AA wich is helping out ALOT at the beginning of each scenario. Funny to see how different we do it and still end up winning :-)
Yes, I find that 2-3 inf, 1 Stug and one Nebelwerfer usually make an excellent defensive position. You can rotate one shellshocked inf to the rear when necessary and there are always 2 inf covering the Stug's flanks. Stug has less firepower than Elefant, Nashorn and so on, but does well against inf and is well-armored. Later on, you can upgrade to Jagdpanther and Jagdtiger, which works wonders when attacking in formation behind tanks or inf. Keep them in the middle and you're golden.

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Re: Mistakes vere made, mein Fuhrer - Endsieg Review and Discuss

Post by Andy2012 » Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:41 pm

Smolensk works the same way as the previous missions - prepare a defensive line with your core, let the aux fall back towards it.
Here, the line is kind of marked with the secondary (silver) flag cities. Have your Stugs ready, let your FW 190 Fs clear the skies. Place long-range arty so it can cover the northern and southern approaches - Yelnya cannot be saved, but most aux units can. Nebelwerfers work well against tanks, too. It is not the damage, it is the shock effect.
I skipped Panthers for more infantry, will get them for Kiev. Yes, procrastinating. Also, retreat your aux recon towards the very rear immediately so they are ideally placed to hunt partisans (again).
Screenshot 206.jpg
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Re: Mistakes vere made, mein Fuhrer - Endsieg Review and Discuss

Post by Andy2012 » Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:47 pm

You get the first turn here in Kiev - but dont go on the offensive. Fastov should be abandoned first, fall back to a more defensible line. If you play your cards right, let your Stugs cover your infantry and your arty and Nebelwerfers shell-shock and suppress tanks and assaulting infantry, you will wear them down fast. The screenshots show my position after the first turn - I have already almost established a full defensive line with full AT and artillery coverage and fighters sweeping ahead. Ivan is in for a nasty surprise.
Screenshot 211.jpg
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Andy2012
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Re: Mistakes vere made, mein Fuhrer - Endsieg Review and Discuss

Post by Andy2012 » Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:50 pm

Southern position. Notice how I gave up the bad position in Fastov to retreat to a more favorable location. In the next turn, I will put my infantry in forest hexes and deploy my AT behind it. Brick wall.
Screenshot 210.jpg
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GabeKnight
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Re: Mistakes vere made, mein Fuhrer - Endsieg Review and Discuss

Post by GabeKnight » Sun Nov 18, 2018 4:12 pm

Andy2012 wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:29 pm
Yeah, I place one, then try to place another and then the preview says "cant find the file anymore", even though I uploaded it. Weird. Maybe file size? Or I need to follow a certain pattern?
There's a whole thread about the forum attachments-bug, but in short: Multiple attachments work only if you don't "preview", else only one attachment works okay.
(And you need to have two "blank" lines between text and <placed inline> picture if you want to have a gap in the final post)
Andy2012 wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:50 pm
Southern position. Notice how I gave up the bad position in Fastov to retreat to a more favorable location. In the next turn, I will put my infantry in forest hexes and deploy my AT behind it. Brick wall.
Screenshot 210.jpg
Myself, I don't think I would have abandoned Fastov that fast. Yes, it's not the best defensive position and facing tanks with infantry on the open is suicide, but you gain a HUGE advantage attacking from river banks. I would've used the city hex and the neighbouring forest hexes to defend. But I'm more the "offence is the best defense"-guy anyways... :wink:

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Re: Mistakes vere made, mein Fuhrer - Endsieg Review and Discuss

Post by Andy2012 » Sun Nov 18, 2018 5:14 pm

@GabeKnight: Okay, so I am not too stupid to attach stuff. Good to know.
Yes, Fastov has those river banks - but you are in arty and bomber range, can be attacked from multiple directions and possibly cut off plus there is little space to rotate units to the rear for recovery. It is just a suicide position which I can retake later on with minimal losses and damage to my core.

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Re: Mistakes vere made, mein Fuhrer - Endsieg Review and Discuss

Post by GabeKnight » Sun Nov 18, 2018 5:41 pm

Andy2012 wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 5:14 pm
Yes, Fastov has those river banks - but you are in arty and bomber range, can be attacked from multiple directions and possibly cut off plus there is little space to rotate units to the rear for recovery. It is just a suicide position which I can retake later on with minimal losses and damage to my core.
I won't argue about a scen I haven't ever played before ( :oops: ), but from experience I woudn't retreat from such position. There are towns within rivers, yeah okay, those are hard to defend, but Fastov seems reasonable. And Kiev has a silver flag, so I'd probably have to advance and capture the eastern part anyway(?). The first turns will hurt for sure, but generally I don't share your (and Mojko's) disposition to hoard money :wink: . If I can use RPs - right now - to crush the enemy faster and harder, I'll do it rather than saving for the future. :twisted: :mrgreen:

As always: It's the player's choice... :D

Halvralf
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Re: Mistakes vere made, mein Fuhrer - Endsieg Review and Discuss

Post by Halvralf » Sun Nov 18, 2018 8:17 pm

GabeKnight wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 5:41 pm
And Kiev has a silver flag, so I'd probably have to advance and capture the eastern part anyway(?).

As always: It's the player's choice... :D
The silver flag in Kiev is correct as Kiev is only a Secondary object with a very tempting reward if I remember it correcty
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Re: Mistakes vere made, mein Fuhrer - Endsieg Review and Discuss

Post by Andy2012 » Sun Nov 18, 2018 8:20 pm

Halvralf wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 8:17 pm

The silver flag in Kiev is correct as Kiev is only a Secondary object with a very tempting reward if I remember it correcty
Yes, you are right. And I intend to capture Kiev and Fastov - I am just retreating to fight another day and preferably on favourable ground. Those 15 tanks and self-propelled guns do not destroy themselves. 8)

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Re: Mistakes vere made, mein Fuhrer - Endsieg Review and Discuss

Post by kverdon » Mon Nov 19, 2018 5:25 am

I've been playing along with Endsieg and so far "Finished" the Eastern Campaign with the capture of Moskow. That's cool but now that I'm in the west, the campaign is just like the historical one, with the same battles. Do you really think that with a massive shift of the bulk of the German Army from the Eastern to Western Front Market Garden et all with very limited resources would have occurred? It does not appear to make sense. I feel like I'm playing the same game in 2 parallel universes.

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Re: Mistakes vere made, mein Fuhrer - Endsieg Review and Discuss

Post by Andy2012 » Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:08 am

kverdon wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 5:25 am
I've been playing along with Endsieg and so far "Finished" the Eastern Campaign with the capture of Moskow. That's cool but now that I'm in the west, the campaign is just like the historical one, with the same battles. Do you really think that with a massive shift of the bulk of the German Army from the Eastern to Western Front Market Garden et all with very limited resources would have occurred? It does not appear to make sense. I feel like I'm playing the same game in 2 parallel universes.
You are correct. However, making a timeline with all missions in the West after a win in the East would easily double the design time and price for this DLC. To keep it manageable, sacrifices have to be made. This does sound like a good idea for a custom campaing, though. :D

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Re: Mistakes vere made, mein Fuhrer - Endsieg Review and Discuss

Post by kondi754 » Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:32 am

I'm the enemy of ahistorical and hypothetical scenarios in wargames, so I think that instead of Vyazma 44 and Moscow 44, there should be the first Jassi-Kishinev op. (April/May 44) and Bagration (June/July 44), or Anzio 44 and Caen 44 (Normandy) if the player would succeed at Novgorod, then the western front up to the Ardennes, Antwerp and Calais scns only with Major win in the Ardennes, in any other situation the player should move to Balaton Lake (Hungary, March 1945) and Berlin (April/May 1945) as the last battles...
I wonder why the western front begins with Falaise and not with the defense of Caen, which historians call the "bloody month of Montgomery", the game asks for such a mission, if only instead of the unfortunate Paris scn, which is completely fictitious, because the Germans fled from France and there was no organized defense

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Re: Mistakes vere made, mein Fuhrer - Endsieg Review and Discuss

Post by GUNDOBALDO08 » Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:13 am

kondi754 wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:32 am
I'm the enemy of ahistorical and hypothetical scenarios in wargames, so I think that instead of Vyazma 44 and Moscow 44, there should be the first Jassi-Kishinev op. (April/May 44) and Bagration (June/July 44), or Anzio 44 and Caen 44 (Normandy) if the player would succeed at Novgorod, then the western front up to the Ardennes, Antwerp and Calais scns only with Major win in the Ardennes, in any other situation the player should move to Balaton Lake (Hungary, March 1945) and Berlin (April/May 1945) as the last battles...
I wonder why the western front begins with Falaise and not with the defense of Caen, which historians call the "bloody month of Montgomery", the game asks for such a mission, if only instead of the unfortunate Paris scn, which is completely fictitious, because the Germans fled from France and there was no organized defense
I perfectly agree with Kondi. An alternate way could be to stay in Italy, I’d like play entire Italy campaign, from sicily to breaking gothic line and north Italy liberation...

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Re: Mistakes vere made, mein Fuhrer - Endsieg Review and Discuss

Post by bebro » Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:41 am

Re Russia - the idea behind Moscow 44 is not that winning there leads to an immediate collapse of all Sov. fighting, but rather that Russia's fate is sealed (IIRC it's hinted in the outcome text). So you reap some bonuses, and your forces go to the west, but there has to be a significant German military presence in Russia still.

Surely that is debatable as an outcome, but so is any other ahistorical result.

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Re: Mistakes vere made, mein Fuhrer - Endsieg Review and Discuss

Post by Admiral_Horthy » Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:23 pm

Well the most accurate historical outcome would have been to let us win in Kursk (in time) that would have practically destroyed all of the USSR's attack potential finishing Manstein's moves... and concluded in a cease fire (let's assume both Stalin and Hitler agrees all the terms unlike the historically). Then Anzio and Italy would be a cake walk. Bad thing, however that in this case Overlord hangs in the void - there is no second front - even IF started would have been repelled. Less historical battles, more fictional - Second Battle of Britain with Kriegsmarine action - a chance for Sealion this time @ major victory... then whatever else remains.. finishing Middle East, finishing North Africa (where we actually won, didn't we??)

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Re: Mistakes vere made, mein Fuhrer - Endsieg Review and Discuss

Post by kondi754 » Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:03 pm

I have doubts whether even winning on the operational scale during the battle of Kursk (it's now recognized that the Kursk battle was only a tactical victory for the Germans :wink: ) would destroy in any significant way the offensive potential of the USSR, although it could end with a separatist peace between these two dictators
I know that the secret negotiations between the USSR and the Third Reich lasted until the conference in Teheran (end of November 1943), then Stalin decided to continue the alliance with the Great Britain&USA (the price for the continuation of the alliance was, among other things, the Soviets' control over Central and East Europe)
Last edited by kondi754 on Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Mistakes vere made, mein Fuhrer - Endsieg Review and Discuss

Post by 13obo » Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:09 pm

Starting to diverge a bit from the topic here. Please use other topics or start one for these discussions as people read this one for the review of the dlc.

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Re: Mistakes vere made, mein Fuhrer - Endsieg Review and Discuss

Post by kondi754 » Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:25 pm

13obo wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:09 pm
Starting to diverge a bit from the topic here. Please use other topics or start one for these discussions as people read this one for the review of the dlc.
I'm sorry Mister @13obo, I will refrain from such digressing for the future, but @Horthy provokes me to discuss about history, like it very much and I can't resist... :wink:

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