Next DLC?

Order of Battle is a series of operational WW2 games starting with the Pacific War and then on to Europe!

Moderators: The Artistocrats, Order of Battle Moderators

WarHomer
Staff Sergeant - Kavallerie
Staff Sergeant - Kavallerie
Posts: 329
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2014 12:12 pm

Re: Next DLC?

Post by WarHomer » Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:14 am

kondi754 wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:08 pm
Red Army campaign part 1:
1. Dubno/Lutsk/Brody battle June 1941
2. Smolensk (Yelnya) July/August 1941
3. Moscow defense October/November 1941
4. Moscow offensive December 1941
5. Rzhev/Demyansk/Kholm early 1942 (it would be a really huge map :!: :wink: )
6. Timoshenko's Kharkov offensive May 1942
7. Voronezh June/July 1942
8. Caucasus August/September 1942
9. Stalingrad defense September/November 1942
10. Uranus operation November 1942
11. Manstein's counterattack/Little Saturn December 1942
12. Race for Rostow/Don offensive January 1943
13. Gallop/Star operation January/February 1943
14. Kharkov (third battle) February/March 1943
15. Kursk defensive phase July 1943 ???

In my opinion, it is probably a complete list of the most important battles of the Red Army from 1941- mid 43
I think that such a campaign should assume huge losses of equipment and infantry units on the player's side.
However, before some scn (eg 4.6 or 10), the player should receive a considerable injection of funds to rebuild their forces in full - in accordance with historical truth.
In conclusion - large losses and constant rebuilding of strength
What do you think?
All massive battles would be tiresome and repetitious, so we need some smaller ones in between and lots of diversity in missions.

kondi754
Lieutenant-General - Do 217E
Lieutenant-General - Do 217E
Posts: 3046
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2015 8:52 am

Re: Next DLC?

Post by kondi754 » Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:33 pm

So you didn't like German GC - Blitzkrieg, Panzerkrieg and Endsieg?
Here, every scenario was a big operation, so you were bored with it I suppose :twisted:
I understand that Sandstorm is more suited to you, with these mini-scenarios, for example naval convoy battle or air attack on Allied trucks?

For me, it's cheating a buyer who spends his hard-earned money on full-fledged battles in an operational scale, but he gets some rushed strategic mini-games :P

Besides, if you want to create this campaign this way you will need at least 4 or 5 parts to finally reach Berlin...

LNDavoust
Corporal - Strongpoint
Corporal - Strongpoint
Posts: 68
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:24 am

Re: Next DLC?

Post by LNDavoust » Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:18 pm

Sandstorm is my favourite DLC and yes, one of the reason is that we have a lot of diversity and marvelous air/navy/land scenarios like Herkules :)

The problem with a soviet DLC would be if there is room for that kind of variety...

uzbek2012
Master Sergeant - Bf 109E
Master Sergeant - Bf 109E
Posts: 466
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:49 pm

Re: Next DLC?

Post by uzbek2012 » Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:57 am

Do you plan to introduce new unusual units ?
http://union.4bb.ru/viewtopic.php?id=971&p=22

TripleCP
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Posts: 98
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2015 7:41 pm

Re: Next DLC?

Post by TripleCP » Wed Jun 05, 2019 6:06 am

Kondi's list covers the most significant campaigns, has a sort of geographic continuity, and I personally would have no problem at all if that exact list was announced. That said, I think it unlikely. There's a good chance the scenarios which are ultimately selected may jump around a little to include the naval aspects as well as to ensure that the player could not plausibly alter history by preventing or reversing some of the Red Army's early defeats along the central front. With that in mind, the evacuation of Tallinn, defense of Leningrad, defense & evacuation of Odessa, Kerch Peninsula amphibious landings, defense of Sevastopol, etc. are some possibilities.

I would not mind if the first DLC (assuming two) goes all the way through Kursk because the Red Army's string of offensives during the period between Kursk and Berlin is often rushed through in both popular histories and wargames alike. However, OoB likes to overturn the player's successes through events beyond their control (somehow going from capturing Moscow to defending Rzhev between Blitzkrieg and Panzerkrieg and from victory at Kursk to the Soviets seizing the initiative all along the front between Panzerkrieg and Endsieg). With that in mind, I can see the first Red Army DLC ending with the Red Army following up victory at Stalingrad with the capture of Rostov (effectively blocking Army Group A's retreat from the Caucasus) while the second could still begin with containing the Wehrmacht's gains following the Third Battle of Kharkov in Feb-March 1943.

Many of the Red Army's officers and soldiers that were encircled in the debacles of 1941/42 either became partisans or made it back to their lines, so maybe there ought to be a way for cut off units to form partisan groups or disband and reconstitute with less of a penalty in terms of lost experience.

The "Unreliable" trait ought to be brought back in all its infamy and applied to many if not all of the Red Army's summer 1941 tank units. The Soviet tank force was formidable on paper but many units were woefully understrength when the Germans crossed the border and often lost more or equal numbers of tanks to mechanical failure and breakdowns in the opening weeks of the war as they did to German ground & air attack. Soviet tanks from the 1930s were often entrenched hull-down as stationary pillboxes and bunkers because their engines were not in working condition.
https://www.facebook.com/RussianFront75/

bebro
The Artistocrats
The Artistocrats
Posts: 2934
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:50 pm

Re: Next DLC?

Post by bebro » Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:01 am

One thing to bear in mind: we cannot use "unreliable" for all those Soviet tank models that make the bulk of the enemy forces in previous content (Blitz, PK, ES, even MS) -- this would make those DLCs suddenly a total pushover.

But any DLC so far had unit _additions_ though, which leaves the door open....so to speak.

Erik2
Order of Battle Moderator
Order of Battle Moderator
Posts: 6273
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 12:59 pm
Location: Norway

Re: Next DLC?

Post by Erik2 » Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:32 am

A Partisan specialisation would be nice, with a random/low chance of destroyed Soviet units being replaced by partisans. These partisan units would probably have to be assigned to a specific partisan AI team with search and destroy order probably targeting artillery and other 'weak defense' units.

GUNDOBALDO08
Staff Sergeant - StuG IIIF
Staff Sergeant - StuG IIIF
Posts: 279
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:07 pm

Re: Next DLC?

Post by GUNDOBALDO08 » Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:38 pm

bebro wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:01 am
One thing to bear in mind: we cannot use "unreliable" for all those Soviet tank models that make the bulk of the enemy forces in previous content (Blitz, PK, ES, even MS) -- this would make those DLCs suddenly a total pushover.

But any DLC so far had unit _additions_ though, which leaves the door open....so to speak.
Bebro all of us just know a lot about next dlc, so you can officially announce it and give us some screeshot and other info... what about it?

bebro
The Artistocrats
The Artistocrats
Posts: 2934
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:50 pm

Re: Next DLC?

Post by bebro » Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:03 pm

I'm not making any announcements, so I have to ask for a bit more patience :)

GabeKnight
Major-General - Tiger I
Major-General - Tiger I
Posts: 2352
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:24 pm

Re: Next DLC?

Post by GabeKnight » Wed Jun 05, 2019 4:58 pm

I've been following most of the "unreliable" discussions, and although there were many points mentioned that would confirm a general lack of reliability of the engines used during the time, please don't overuse it. This is just my opinion, but one or two units per nation's roster should get it at the maximum!

This trait's annoying enough as it is:
Like a fifty-fifty chance to lose 20% of the unit's efficiency by moving or attacking? In the worst case my unit loses 40% efficiency during one attack. Ridiculous. :evil:

How about a new trait instead, that has a chance of reducing the movement points? For example, I'm ordering my unit to move four hexes and this trait causes my unit to stop after two...

kondi754
Lieutenant-General - Do 217E
Lieutenant-General - Do 217E
Posts: 3046
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2015 8:52 am

Re: Next DLC?

Post by kondi754 » Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:25 pm

GabeKnight wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 4:58 pm
I've been following most of the "unreliable" discussions, and although there were many points mentioned that would confirm a general lack of reliability of the engines used during the time, please don't overuse it. This is just my opinion, but one or two units per nation's roster should get it at the maximum!

This trait's annoying enough as it is:
Like a fifty-fifty chance to lose 20% of the unit's efficiency by moving or attacking? In the worst case my unit loses 40% efficiency during one attack. Ridiculous. :evil:

How about a new trait instead, that has a chance of reducing the movement points? For example, I'm ordering my unit to move four hexes and this trait causes my unit to stop after two...
Gabe, this is not about the reliability of engines only, but the whole drive system - gearbox, transmission, suspension, tracks, etc.
Did you know that the Panther tank moved off the road at a speed of 13 km/h?
Or that the Soviet armored corps in 1941 and 1942 lost even 80-90% of vehicles due to the failure of the drive system during a 200km march towards the front line?
Do you want to have a nice PzC style game or a unique operational simulator? :wink:
After all, you may delete this trait from the unit.csv file if it bothers you but a milder/different version of this trait is ok for me, but without removing the one which we have now, of course

BTW, I have 3 proposals for unique specs for the Red Army:
- Maskirovka
- Deep Operation concept
- Borzoj Tactics
If anyone is interested, I can explain what's going on :wink:

cutydt02
Senior Corporal - Destroyer
Senior Corporal - Destroyer
Posts: 106
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2016 6:04 am

Re: Next DLC?

Post by cutydt02 » Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:23 am

kondi754 wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:25 pm
GabeKnight wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 4:58 pm
I've been following most of the "unreliable" discussions, and although there were many points mentioned that would confirm a general lack of reliability of the engines used during the time, please don't overuse it. This is just my opinion, but one or two units per nation's roster should get it at the maximum!

This trait's annoying enough as it is:
Like a fifty-fifty chance to lose 20% of the unit's efficiency by moving or attacking? In the worst case my unit loses 40% efficiency during one attack. Ridiculous. :evil:

How about a new trait instead, that has a chance of reducing the movement points? For example, I'm ordering my unit to move four hexes and this trait causes my unit to stop after two...
Gabe, this is not about the reliability of engines only, but the whole drive system - gearbox, transmission, suspension, tracks, etc.
Did you know that the Panther tank moved off the road at a speed of 13 km/h?
Or that the Soviet armored corps in 1941 and 1942 lost even 80-90% of vehicles due to the failure of the drive system during a 200km march towards the front line?
Do you want to have a nice PzC style game or a unique operational simulator? :wink:
After all, you may delete this trait from the unit.csv file if it bothers you but a milder/different version of this trait is ok for me, but without removing the one which we have now, of course

BTW, I have 3 proposals for unique specs for the Red Army:
- Maskirovka
- Deep Operation concept
- Borzoj Tactics
If anyone is interested, I can explain what's going on :wink:
Interesting, can you explain now ? I dont know about the first and last spec

GUNDOBALDO08
Staff Sergeant - StuG IIIF
Staff Sergeant - StuG IIIF
Posts: 279
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:07 pm

Re: Next DLC?

Post by GUNDOBALDO08 » Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:19 am

Any announcement in honor of 75th DDay anniversary?? 😉

kondi754
Lieutenant-General - Do 217E
Lieutenant-General - Do 217E
Posts: 3046
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2015 8:52 am

Re: Next DLC?

Post by kondi754 » Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:49 pm

cutydt02 wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:23 am
kondi754 wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:25 pm
GabeKnight wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 4:58 pm
I've been following most of the "unreliable" discussions, and although there were many points mentioned that would confirm a general lack of reliability of the engines used during the time, please don't overuse it. This is just my opinion, but one or two units per nation's roster should get it at the maximum!

This trait's annoying enough as it is:
Like a fifty-fifty chance to lose 20% of the unit's efficiency by moving or attacking? In the worst case my unit loses 40% efficiency during one attack. Ridiculous. :evil:

How about a new trait instead, that has a chance of reducing the movement points? For example, I'm ordering my unit to move four hexes and this trait causes my unit to stop after two...
Gabe, this is not about the reliability of engines only, but the whole drive system - gearbox, transmission, suspension, tracks, etc.
Did you know that the Panther tank moved off the road at a speed of 13 km/h?
Or that the Soviet armored corps in 1941 and 1942 lost even 80-90% of vehicles due to the failure of the drive system during a 200km march towards the front line?
Do you want to have a nice PzC style game or a unique operational simulator? :wink:
After all, you may delete this trait from the unit.csv file if it bothers you but a milder/different version of this trait is ok for me, but without removing the one which we have now, of course

BTW, I have 3 proposals for unique specs for the Red Army:
- Maskirovka
- Deep Operation concept
- Borzoj Tactics
If anyone is interested, I can explain what's going on :wink:
Interesting, can you explain now ? I dont know about the first and last spec

Deep Operation - armored, self-propelled and motorized units for several turns (like paratroopers) don't feel the effects of cutting off the supply lines plus the player receives 1 unit of long-range reconnaissance, which has characteristics similar to Marine Raiders (price: 20 SPs)
The concept of "deep operation" developed before the war by Trandafilov and Isserson (supported by Marshal Tukhachevsky), which Stavka tried to use during the war since Uranus op. to Berlin
Maskirovka - enemy units experience the effects of reduced efficiency throughout the first (few) turns of each scenario (price: 15 SPs)
Maskirovka is the art of disinformation and camouflage, superbly mastered by the Soviets, used before the large offensives 1942-45, used eg. before the op. Uranus, the Battle of the Dnieper (200km transfer of the 3rd guards armored army from the Bukryne bridgehead to the north), before the start of the op. Bagration in Belarus, etc.
Borzoj tactics - If 3 units of the T-34 tanks are on hexes adjacent to the hex, where the Tiger, Tiger II or Panther units are located - the German unit has a reduced "Defense against mechanized" factor by 2 points (price: 10 SPs)
Tactics used on the battlefield by T-34 crews in clashes with Tigers and Panthers (1944-45), 2-4 vehicles served as a bait, the rest (6-8) circled the opponent and attacked at once from behind and from all sides. Borzoi was a race of dog used for hunting wolves and bears in Siberia (a dozen or so dogs hunt in a group)

cutydt02
Senior Corporal - Destroyer
Senior Corporal - Destroyer
Posts: 106
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2016 6:04 am

Re: Next DLC?

Post by cutydt02 » Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:01 pm

Deep Operation so broken bro, nearly ignore supply mechanic. That cost (20) is high enough if SP gained as low as japanese campaigns (3-4 per scenario, while german campaign easy gets more than 5)
Maskirovka's unique, but it intercedes to efficiency mechanic directly, which may causes some trouble like Panzerkeil or Advanced Aeronautics for a while. Additionally, this spec shouldnt work in Defence mission or artilleries will be god of war again

kondi754
Lieutenant-General - Do 217E
Lieutenant-General - Do 217E
Posts: 3046
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2015 8:52 am

Re: Next DLC?

Post by kondi754 » Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:53 pm

cutydt02 wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:01 pm
Deep Operation so broken bro, nearly ignore supply mechanic. That cost (20) is high enough if SP gained as low as japanese campaigns (3-4 per scenario, while german campaign easy gets more than 5)
Maskirovka's unique, but it intercedes to efficiency mechanic directly, which may causes some trouble like Panzerkeil or Advanced Aeronautics for a while. Additionally, this spec shouldnt work in Defence mission or artilleries will be god of war again
Deep operation - if its price is too low, it can be increased, maybe 30-35 SPs?
Soviet T-34s from 1943 were extremely mobile vehicles, during the offensive the leading tank brigades made 50-60km raids deep into the opponent's operational space, and then (if they recognized strong defense in a given direction) they often returned WITHOUT PROBLEMS to their corps
To sum up, situation they were far from their lines didn't matter to them as for Panzerwaffe in 1941-42
Maskirovka - this specs should be available since November 1942 (Uranus) and would be available only during offensive scenarios (when Soviets moves first :wink: , it's possible to make it in the game I suppose), this lowered efficiency state would affect a maximum of the first 2-3 rounds (maybe even first turn only ???) and would somewhat resemble the Red Army during the first few rounds of Minsk 1941 scn, remember?

Igor1941
Staff Sergeant - Kavallerie
Staff Sergeant - Kavallerie
Posts: 325
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:05 pm

Re: Next DLC?

Post by Igor1941 » Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:33 pm

kondi754 wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:53 pm
cutydt02 wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:01 pm
Deep Operation so broken bro, nearly ignore supply mechanic. That cost (20) is high enough if SP gained as low as japanese campaigns (3-4 per scenario, while german campaign easy gets more than 5)
Maskirovka's unique, but it intercedes to efficiency mechanic directly, which may causes some trouble like Panzerkeil or Advanced Aeronautics for a while. Additionally, this spec shouldnt work in Defence mission or artilleries will be god of war again
Deep operation - if its price is too low, it can be increased, maybe 30-35 SPs?
Soviet T-34s from 1943 were extremely mobile vehicles, during the offensive the leading tank brigades made 50-60km raids deep into the opponent's operational space, and then (if they recognized strong defense in a given direction) they often returned WITHOUT PROBLEMS to their corps
To sum up, situation they were far from their lines didn't matter to them as for Panzerwaffe in 1941-42
Maskirovka - this specs should be available since November 1942 (Uranus) and would be available only during offensive scenarios (when Soviets moves first :wink: , it's possible to make it in the game I suppose), this lowered efficiency state would affect a maximum of the first 2-3 rounds (maybe even first turn only ???) and would somewhat resemble the Red Army during the first few rounds of Minsk 1941 scn, remember?
Mobility ended like this ... this is Ukraine 1944 spring Image

kondi754
Lieutenant-General - Do 217E
Lieutenant-General - Do 217E
Posts: 3046
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2015 8:52 am

Re: Next DLC?

Post by kondi754 » Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:34 pm

This is IS-2 (or properly IS-122) heavy tank, not T-34
Immobilized by Tiger or Nashorn at Chotymyr, western Ukraine 30 April 1944 then transported to the Reich and subjected to tests (hence the inscription "OKW" made with white paint on the turret)

Horst
Sr. Colonel - Battleship
Sr. Colonel - Battleship
Posts: 1612
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:22 pm

Re: Next DLC?

Post by Horst » Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:39 pm

While playing Sandstorm in the last scenarios, I've noticed how utterly useless my single Tiger H was, being constantly below 5 efficiency. My other Panzer 4's did a much better job meanwhile.
I don't mind the 50% chance to trigger that effect but 1 eff-point loss is really enough.

kondi754
Lieutenant-General - Do 217E
Lieutenant-General - Do 217E
Posts: 3046
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2015 8:52 am

Re: Next DLC?

Post by kondi754 » Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:48 pm

Horst wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:39 pm
While playing Sandstorm in the last scenarios, I've noticed how utterly useless my single Tiger H was, being constantly below 5 efficiency. My other Panzer 4's did a much better job meanwhile.
I don't mind the 50% chance to trigger that effect but 1 eff-point loss is really enough.
Because Pz IV was a real Panzerwaffe workhorse :D
Tigers and Panthers were good in PR (both during the war and after the war), but the real work for the Wehrmacht (and the Waffen SS) was done by the "panzer fours" - the silent hero of this war 8)

Post Reply

Return to “Order of Battle Series”