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Re: Next DLC?

Posted: Fri May 31, 2019 8:46 am
by Igor1941
uzbek2012 wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 12:03 am
Igor1941 wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 7:59 am
Burning T-34 near Klin, winter 1941 ... Do not forget about the loss of 1:10 in four years of war
Image

What you bent or mass destruction of the civilian population too are counted as fighting losses and the merits of the Reich's military thinking !?
https://topwar.ru/11444-poteri-sssr-i-g ... v-vov.html

P.s. And so would like the Soviet company which would start from the lake Khasan and Khalkhin Gol )
Image
https://diletant.media/articles/42644573/
https://starcom68.livejournal.com/2647532.html
http://armedman.ru/fotogalereya/trofei- ... n-gol.html
Пропаганду не пишите ... бесполезно ...Пример - в Киевской операции погибло 800. 000 солдат РККА в 1943г, а немцы потеряли ... 13.000 солдат, украинские архивы открыты и посчитаны, а русские архивы Второй Мировой засекречены до 2040, а архивы НКВД до 2050 года . Что скрываем)))?

Propaganda do not write ... useless ... Example - in the Kiev operation 800.000 soldiers of the Red Army died in 1943, and the Germans lost ... 13.000 soldiers, the Ukrainian archives are open and counted, and the Russian archives of World War II are classified until 2040, and archives NKVD until 2050. What is hidden)))?

Re: Next DLC?

Posted: Fri May 31, 2019 12:38 pm
by terminator
Igor1941 wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 8:46 am
Propaganda do not write ... useless ... Example - in the Kiev operation 800.000 soldiers of the Red Army died in 1943, and the Germans lost ... 13.000 soldiers, the Ukrainian archives are open and counted, and the Russian archives of World War II are classified until 2040, and archives NKVD until 2050. What is hidden)))?
In the second battle of kiev (1943) :shock:

You must have played too much on the fourth "Endsieg" mission (004_Zithomir) :wink:


0079f2476a165c0466f526203bee1218.jpg
0079f2476a165c0466f526203bee1218.jpg (98.25 KiB) Viewed 1669 times

The column of German prisoners of war carried through the streets of Kiev.

Re: Next DLC?

Posted: Fri May 31, 2019 2:00 pm
by Igor1941
terminator wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 12:38 pm
Igor1941 wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 8:46 am
Propaganda do not write ... useless ... Example - in the Kiev operation 800.000 soldiers of the Red Army died in 1943, and the Germans lost ... 13.000 soldiers, the Ukrainian archives are open and counted, and the Russian archives of World War II are classified until 2040, and archives NKVD until 2050. What is hidden)))?
In the second battle of kiev (1943) :shock:

You must have played too much on the fourth "Endsieg" mission (004_Zithomir) :wink:



0079f2476a165c0466f526203bee1218.jpg


The column of German prisoners of war carried through the streets of Kiev.
https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A7%D0 ... 0%BA%D0%B8

Re: Next DLC?

Posted: Fri May 31, 2019 6:37 pm
by kondi754
Igor1941 wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 2:00 pm
terminator wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 12:38 pm
Igor1941 wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 8:46 am
Propaganda do not write ... useless ... Example - in the Kiev operation 800.000 soldiers of the Red Army died in 1943, and the Germans lost ... 13.000 soldiers, the Ukrainian archives are open and counted, and the Russian archives of World War II are classified until 2040, and archives NKVD until 2050. What is hidden)))?
In the second battle of kiev (1943) :shock:

You must have played too much on the fourth "Endsieg" mission (004_Zithomir) :wink:

The column of German prisoners of war carried through the streets of Kiev.
https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A7%D0 ... 0%BA%D0%B8
The Soviets captured large areas of Ukraine in the autumn of 1943. They lacked soldiers because they suffered huge losses, so they forced men from these areas to join the Red Army and used them as cannon fodder.
The number of 800,000 is overstated, but objective sources estimate that about 200,000 such poorly trained and compelled soldiers (civilians in fact) were killed during the entire Dnieper battle from September 1943 to February 1944
The number of Germans killed is ridiculous - 13,000 German soldiers were killed only during the battle of Korsun - Cherkassy in January/February 1944. There were killed (probably) around 60,000 Germans, about 150,000 Soviets plus 200,000 this Ukrainian civilians forced to fight during the entire battle for Dnepr

Re: Next DLC?

Posted: Fri May 31, 2019 7:49 pm
by Igor1941
kondi754 wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 6:37 pm
Igor1941 wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 2:00 pm
terminator wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 12:38 pm

In the second battle of kiev (1943) :shock:

You must have played too much on the fourth "Endsieg" mission (004_Zithomir) :wink:

The column of German prisoners of war carried through the streets of Kiev.
https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A7%D0 ... 0%BA%D0%B8
The Soviets captured large areas of Ukraine in the autumn of 1943. They lacked soldiers because they suffered huge losses, so they forced men from these areas to join the Red Army and used them as cannon fodder.
The number of 800,000 is overstated, but objective sources estimate that about 200,000 such poorly trained and compelled soldiers (civilians in fact) were killed during the entire Dnieper battle from September 1943 to February 1944
The number of Germans killed is ridiculous - 13,000 German soldiers were killed only during the battle of Korsun - Cherkassy in January/February 1944. There were killed (probably) around 60,000 Germans, about 150,000 Soviets plus 200,000 this Ukrainian civilians forced to fight during the entire battle for Dnepr
Only Kiev ... August -November 1943

Re: Next DLC?

Posted: Fri May 31, 2019 7:55 pm
by Andy2012
Guys, just a quick reminder before this gets derailed and ugly: Let's keep this a friendly discussion among international friends who share a harmless fun hobby. Discussing history is fine, being impolite not. (Of course, nobody is impolite around here. We are all friends.)

Re: Next DLC?

Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 2:32 am
by uzbek2012
Igor1941 wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 2:00 pm
terminator wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 12:38 pm
Igor1941 wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 8:46 am
Propaganda do not write ... useless ... Example - in the Kiev operation 800.000 soldiers of the Red Army died in 1943, and the Germans lost ... 13.000 soldiers, the Ukrainian archives are open and counted, and the Russian archives of World War II are classified until 2040, and archives NKVD until 2050. What is hidden)))?
In the second battle of kiev (1943) :shock:

You must have played too much on the fourth "Endsieg" mission (004_Zithomir) :wink:



0079f2476a165c0466f526203bee1218.jpg


The column of German prisoners of war carried through the streets of Kiev.
https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A7%D0 ... 0%BA%D0%B8
You seriously bring here to Wikipedia where any idiot can correct or edit the post ))) It's you I came under the propaganda, then probably wait for that Russia invaded Ukraine in 1941 )))
https://topwar.ru/22786-oun-upa-fakty-i ... vanie.html
Remind then was still the Soviet Union !
Andy2012 wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 7:55 pm
Guys, just a quick reminder before this gets derailed and ugly: Let's keep this a friendly discussion among international friends who share a harmless fun hobby. Discussing history is fine, being impolite not. (Of course, nobody is impolite around here. We are all friends.)

ОК :D Just sometimes funny to read the Blizzard that was then sweeping sometimes "friends" )))
Igor1941 wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 8:46 am

Пропаганду не пишите ... бесполезно ...Пример - в Киевской операции погибло 800. 000 солдат РККА в 1943г, а немцы потеряли ... 13.000 солдат, украинские архивы открыты и посчитаны, а русские архивы Второй Мировой засекречены до 2040, а архивы НКВД до 2050 года . Что скрываем)))?

Propaganda do not write ... useless ... Example - in the Kiev operation 800.000 soldiers of the Red Army died in 1943, and the Germans lost ... 13.000 soldiers, the Ukrainian archives are open and counted, and the Russian archives of World War II are classified until 2040, and archives NKVD until 2050. What is hidden)))?

О украинские архивы самый надежный источник теперь :D

About Ukrainian archives the most reliable source now :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUFx6ISXQEY

Re: Next DLC?

Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 7:24 am
by Igor1941
uzbek2012 wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 2:32 am
Igor1941 wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 2:00 pm
terminator wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 12:38 pm

In the second battle of kiev (1943) :shock:

You must have played too much on the fourth "Endsieg" mission (004_Zithomir) :wink:



0079f2476a165c0466f526203bee1218.jpg


The column of German prisoners of war carried through the streets of Kiev.
https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A7%D0 ... 0%BA%D0%B8
You seriously bring here to Wikipedia where any idiot can correct or edit the post ))) It's you I came under the propaganda, then probably wait for that Russia invaded Ukraine in 1941 )))
https://topwar.ru/22786-oun-upa-fakty-i ... vanie.html
Remind then was still the Soviet Union !
Andy2012 wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 7:55 pm
Guys, just a quick reminder before this gets derailed and ugly: Let's keep this a friendly discussion among international friends who share a harmless fun hobby. Discussing history is fine, being impolite not. (Of course, nobody is impolite around here. We are all friends.)

ОК :D Just sometimes funny to read the Blizzard that was then sweeping sometimes "friends" )))
Igor1941 wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 8:46 am

Пропаганду не пишите ... бесполезно ...Пример - в Киевской операции погибло 800. 000 солдат РККА в 1943г, а немцы потеряли ... 13.000 солдат, украинские архивы открыты и посчитаны, а русские архивы Второй Мировой засекречены до 2040, а архивы НКВД до 2050 года . Что скрываем)))?

Propaganda do not write ... useless ... Example - in the Kiev operation 800.000 soldiers of the Red Army died in 1943, and the Germans lost ... 13.000 soldiers, the Ukrainian archives are open and counted, and the Russian archives of World War II are classified until 2040, and archives NKVD until 2050. What is hidden)))?

О украинские архивы самый надежный источник теперь :D

About Ukrainian archives the most reliable source now :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUFx6ISXQEY
All Russian sources on the history of propaganda and fiction, because...
российские архивы Вторая мировая война засекречена до 2040 года, а архивы НКВД до 2050 года. Что скрыто)))?

Re: Next DLC?

Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 10:05 pm
by uzbek2012
Igor1941 wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 7:24 am
uzbek2012 wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 2:32 am
You seriously bring here to Wikipedia where any idiot can correct or edit the post ))) It's you I came under the propaganda, then probably wait for that Russia invaded Ukraine in 1941 )))
https://topwar.ru/22786-oun-upa-fakty-i ... vanie.html
Remind then was still the Soviet Union !
Andy2012 wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 7:55 pm
Guys, just a quick reminder before this gets derailed and ugly: Let's keep this a friendly discussion among international friends who share a harmless fun hobby. Discussing history is fine, being impolite not. (Of course, nobody is impolite around here. We are all friends.)

ОК :D Just sometimes funny to read the Blizzard that was then sweeping sometimes "friends" )))
Igor1941 wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 8:46 am

Пропаганду не пишите ... бесполезно ...Пример - в Киевской операции погибло 800. 000 солдат РККА в 1943г, а немцы потеряли ... 13.000 солдат, украинские архивы открыты и посчитаны, а русские архивы Второй Мировой засекречены до 2040, а архивы НКВД до 2050 года . Что скрываем)))?

Propaganda do not write ... useless ... Example - in the Kiev operation 800.000 soldiers of the Red Army died in 1943, and the Germans lost ... 13.000 soldiers, the Ukrainian archives are open and counted, and the Russian archives of World War II are classified until 2040, and archives NKVD until 2050. What is hidden)))?

О украинские архивы самый надежный источник теперь :D

About Ukrainian archives the most reliable source now :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUFx6ISXQEY
All Russian sources on the history of propaganda and fiction, because...
российские архивы Вторая мировая война засекречена до 2040 года, а архивы НКВД до 2050 года. Что скрыто)))?
Да много чего скрытного может быть, документы они тоже разные бывают ..... Может разочаровывать Украину не хотят что не древние укры Черное море выкопали и не какой вовсе стапан бандера не герой )))

Re: Next DLC?

Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:06 am
by TripleCP
Regarding sources, John Erickson's two volumes (Road to Stalingrad and Road to Berlin) as well as David Glantz's and Jonathan House's When Titans Clashed have withstood the test of time.

While much of the "scholarship" coming from Russian government sources is very politicized and ought to be read skeptically, but the same is true of the equally propaganda-laden works being promoted in Ukraine, Poland, Latvia, etc. Likewise, the pop-histories authored by Russian-born dissidents seeking to besmirch the Soviet war record can by and large be dismissed. One unfortunate side-effect of Russian censorship is that it leads some to naively give credence to authors who falsely publish dubious and undocumented rumors as though they were verified facts. While "Viktor Suvorov" is the most notorious of these, there are others pseudo-historians such as Boris Sokolov who have attracted an online following among those who prefer "pop-history" conspiracy theories over serious histories published by reputable academic publishing houses.

Ironically, German scholars have done some of the best research when it comes to demolishing the popular myths surrounding the Wehrmacht's senior officers with regard to both exposing their complicity with the crimes of Nazism as well as committing strategic blunders which they later attributed solely to Hitler.

------

Getting back to the future of Order of Battle, I think it may indeed be (unfortunately) likely that only one Red Army DLC will be released. This would be as unfortunate as cramming all the Anglo-American offensives from North Africa to the Ruhr pocket into one DLC, but it may happen. Still, I hope there will ultimately be at least two West Front and two East Front DLCs for the Big Three Allied powers. Regarding pre-Barbarossa scenarios, I would suggest that the developers consider releasing a "free-LC" of two Soviet vs. Japanese scenarios (Lake Khasan and Khalkin Gol) and two to four Soviet vs. Finnish scenarios (even if they are just retweaked versions from the Winter War DLC playable as the Red Army). Some new free content may be what's needed to attract new players to the game as well as bring back some who've left.

Re: Next DLC?

Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:55 pm
by Igor1941
uzbek2012 wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 10:05 pm
Igor1941 wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 7:24 am
uzbek2012 wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 2:32 am


You seriously bring here to Wikipedia where any idiot can correct or edit the post ))) It's you I came under the propaganda, then probably wait for that Russia invaded Ukraine in 1941 )))
https://topwar.ru/22786-oun-upa-fakty-i ... vanie.html
Remind then was still the Soviet Union !




ОК :D Just sometimes funny to read the Blizzard that was then sweeping sometimes "friends" )))




О украинские архивы самый надежный источник теперь :D

About Ukrainian archives the most reliable source now :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUFx6ISXQEY
All Russian sources on the history of propaganda and fiction, because...
российские архивы Вторая мировая война засекречена до 2040 года, а архивы НКВД до 2050 года. Что скрыто)))?
Да много чего скрытного может быть, документы они тоже разные бывают ..... Может разочаровывать Украину не хотят что не древние укры Черное море выкопали и не какой вовсе стапан бандера не герой )))
I repeat the question
Все российские источники по истории пропаганды и вымысла, потому что ...
российские архивы Вторая мировая война засекречена до 2040 года, а архивы НКВД до 2050 года. Что скрыто)))?

Re: Next DLC?

Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:57 pm
by Igor1941
@ kondi754 согласно объективным источникам - What sources? Все российские источники по истории пропаганды и вымысла, потому что ...
российские архивы Вторая мировая война засекречена до 2040 года, архивы НКВД до 2050 года. Что скрыто)))? What sources?

Re: Next DLC?

Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 2:19 pm
by TheFilthyCasual
To be done properly, the Soviets need three campaigns for thew North, Central, and Southern sectors of the front respectively.

Then again, the US campaign should also have been split either into a Southern and a Central campaign, or an Army campaign and a Navy/Marines campaign, in order to cover all the battle properly instead of skipping half the land battles and half the naval battles so as to cram them into one. So it is unlikely they will make three Soviet campaigns I'm sorry to say.

Re: Next DLC?

Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 2:28 pm
by bebro
TripleCP wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:06 am
Getting back to the future of Order of Battle, I think it may indeed be (unfortunately) likely that only one Red Army DLC will be released.
I can't predict all possible developments coming still, so this is not a set-in-stone thing, but the plan for now is not to get over with the Red Army in just a single DLC of 10 scns or so...

Re: Next DLC?

Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 5:01 pm
by GUNDOBALDO08
bebro wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 2:28 pm
TripleCP wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:06 am
Getting back to the future of Order of Battle, I think it may indeed be (unfortunately) likely that only one Red Army DLC will be released.
I can't predict all possible developments coming still, so this is not a set-in-stone thing, but the plan for now is not to get over with the Red Army in just a single DLC of 10 scns or so...
Thats mean we can expect an early 14/16 scn Soviet campaign: from prebarbarossa to stalingrad i gues

Re: Next DLC?

Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:08 am
by uzbek2012
bebro wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 2:28 pm
TripleCP wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:06 am
Getting back to the future of Order of Battle, I think it may indeed be (unfortunately) likely that only one Red Army DLC will be released.
I can't predict all possible developments coming still, so this is not a set-in-stone thing, but the plan for now is not to get over with the Red Army in just a single DLC of 10 scns or so...
Very pleased that there will be a Soviet company and DLC :!:

Japanese skydivers
http://ww2history.ru/3996-japonskie-parashjutisty.html
https://sfw.so/1149038310-yaponskie-par ... voyne.html
Special units of the Japanese Imperial army
https://foto-history.livejournal.com/11055079.html
Japanese cavalry :evil:
https://www.liveinternet.ru/users/34051 ... 212808618/
Japanese skiers
https://howlingpixel.com/i-ru/27-%D1%8F ... %B8%D1%8F)

Re: Next DLC?

Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:59 am
by TripleCP
bebro wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 2:28 pm
TripleCP wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:06 am
Getting back to the future of Order of Battle, I think it may indeed be (unfortunately) likely that only one Red Army DLC will be released.
I can't predict all possible developments coming still, so this is not a set-in-stone thing, but the plan for now is not to get over with the Red Army in just a single DLC of 10 scns or so...
That is very welcome news. Thanks for the update.

Re: Next DLC?

Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:57 am
by WarHomer
Extremely glad to hear that there will be bigger focus on longer campaigns.

This really is the cornerstone of these types of games and I always find myself coming back to the longer ones and only once in a while to the shorter ones.

Re: Next DLC?

Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:08 pm
by kondi754
Red Army campaign part 1:
1. Dubno/Lutsk/Brody battle June 1941
2. Smolensk (Yelnya) July/August 1941
3. Moscow defense October/November 1941
4. Moscow offensive December 1941
5. Rzhev/Demyansk/Kholm early 1942 (it would be a really huge map :!: :wink: )
6. Timoshenko's Kharkov offensive May 1942
7. Voronezh June/July 1942
8. Caucasus August/September 1942
9. Stalingrad defense September/November 1942
10. Uranus operation November 1942
11. Manstein's counterattack/Little Saturn December 1942
12. Race for Rostow/Don offensive January 1943
13. Gallop/Star operation January/February 1943
14. Kharkov (third battle) February/March 1943
15. Kursk defensive phase July 1943 ???

In my opinion, it is probably a complete list of the most important battles of the Red Army from 1941- mid 43
I think that such a campaign should assume huge losses of equipment and infantry units on the player's side.
However, before some scn (eg 4.6 or 10), the player should receive a considerable injection of funds to rebuild their forces in full - in accordance with historical truth.
In conclusion - large losses and constant rebuilding of strength
What do you think?

Re: Next DLC?

Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:57 pm
by Horst
And then you could theoretically do the Winter War DLC on the Soviet side too, besides some trips to China against Japan. Yeah, the Soviets got plenty to offer, but I also want to play the Western Allies one year...

Btw, the number of unique Soviet specs in 7.1.8 is rather meager yet. How about a "Tank Riders" or rather "Tank Desant" spec?
Tanks receive +2 defense versus infantry (and towed anti-tank) units if allied infantry is adjacent to them and the attacking unit.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tank_desant