Core forces - free vs. "rebuild"

Order of Battle is a series of operational WW2 games starting with the Pacific War and then on to Europe!

Moderators: The Artistocrats, Order of Battle Moderators

Post Reply
Tharmas
Private First Class - Wehrmacht Inf
Private First Class - Wehrmacht Inf
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:26 am

Core forces - free vs. "rebuild"

Post by Tharmas » Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:19 pm

Playing US Pacific. When I try to add my core forces to a scenario, I have units I can place on the map for "free" and others I have to "reconstitute" or whatever, to put them on the map. What is the difference? Is it a scenario limit? I don't mean the command points limit and I don't mean "repairing" units that were damaged. The cost is slightly less than buying a new unit outright but still, please to explain??

Zekedia222
Lance Corporal - SdKfz 222
Lance Corporal - SdKfz 222
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:30 pm
Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana

Re: Core forces - free vs. "rebuild"

Post by Zekedia222 » Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:22 pm

I honestly have no clue why, but I know what you are talking about.
Winchester: Klinger, you're dumber than you look, and THAT boggles the MIND.
A great quote from one of my favorite TV shows, M*A*S*H

PoorOldSpike
2nd Lieutenant - Elite Panzer IVF/2
2nd Lieutenant - Elite Panzer IVF/2
Posts: 715
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 6:06 pm
Location: Plymouth, England

Re: Core forces - free vs. "rebuild"

Post by PoorOldSpike » Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:50 pm

Hi, are you talking about a scenario in the campaign, or a standalone scen outside the campaign?
What's the name of the scen?

bru888
Order of Battle Moderator
Order of Battle Moderator
Posts: 2917
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 5:39 pm

Re: Core forces - free vs. "rebuild"

Post by bru888 » Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:20 am

I think he is referring to this:

Image0056.jpg
Image0056.jpg (97.96 KiB) Viewed 335 times

As the manual says, if you think of it, you can go directly to your destroyed units list and choose to reform (not reconstitute, but same idea) one of them:

Screenshot 1.jpg
Screenshot 1.jpg (238.78 KiB) Viewed 335 times

Or, the game will offer to do so if you try to purchase a new unit when a unit of the same type is on the destroyed list:

Screenshot 2.jpg
Screenshot 2.jpg (316.71 KiB) Viewed 335 times

The purchase cost is the same, but retaining some of the unit's experience is a bonus. The manual says 5% but it is out-of-date on this and quite a few other things; the popup message is correct: 30% of the destroyed unit's experience will be given back to it when it is reformed.

If that's not it, Tharmas, please post again and explain in greater detail what you are seeing.
- Bru

Tharmas
Private First Class - Wehrmacht Inf
Private First Class - Wehrmacht Inf
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:26 am

Re: Core forces - free vs. "rebuild"

Post by Tharmas » Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:51 am

ok, sorry i am not up to posting screenshots.
So, it's not reforming dead units, or repairing damaged units, or even upgrading units. I get all that.
It's this:
I played Boot Camp and bought some core units, imported them into US Pacific. When I load a scenario like Bataan, the core units are all there and the game allows me to place certain units for "free", ie, none of my "money" points are spent but my "command points" (helmets, anchors, etc) are spent. I could place some infantry, an engineer, etc. but when I try to place the heavy infantry or AA guns I also have as core units, the game charges me almost the full cost to place them, as if I just went and purchased them using the purchase button. So, these units are core units, yet I have to "re-buy" them whenever I want to use them again. The free units have a black zero in the upper left corner of their force panel icon. It's always the same and seems to function exactly like it's supposed to. I guess my question boils down to: how do you know? how do you know if a unit you buy as a core will actually be available in some future scenario? what is the point of, say, buying a new aircraft carrier in one scenario just to discover I need to "buy" it again every time I want to use it? I hope this makes more sense. Is it "bought" vs. "given" units?

bru888
Order of Battle Moderator
Order of Battle Moderator
Posts: 2917
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 5:39 pm

Re: Core forces - free vs. "rebuild"

Post by bru888 » Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:23 pm

Okay, now I got it. I did a walkthrough to reproduce the situation. The quick answer is yes, for game balance, you have to repurchase imported core units with both resource points and command points but core units that are subsequently provided to you by the scenario designer cost you only command points.

What happens is this (and I start at the beginning, for my own edification and that of others, so grab a soda and a snack before you wade into this):

At the end of Boot Camp, you clicked the Army Cores button and exported the core:

a.jpg
a.jpg (466.99 KiB) Viewed 284 times

When you started U.S. Pacific, it offered to import the core, which you did:

b.jpg
b.jpg (497.33 KiB) Viewed 284 times
c.jpg
c.jpg (453.71 KiB) Viewed 284 times

The designer of U.S. Pacific did not provide for the use of any core units in the first scenario, Pearl Harbor. In War Plan Orange 3, however, you do have that opportunity. Just for demonstration, I placed only the first U.S. Infantry unit on the map:

d.jpg
d.jpg (794.82 KiB) Viewed 284 times
e.jpg
e.jpg (788.7 KiB) Viewed 284 times

Now we move ahead to Bataan. Notice that same infantry unit no longer has the yellow marker and price sticker. Also notice that now there are two M3 Stuarts, one with the yellow marker and price sticker (the imported core unit) and one without:

f.jpg
f.jpg (615.28 KiB) Viewed 284 times

Look closely at this screen print (download it and open it in an image viewer if necessary). I have placed both of these M3 Stuarts on the map and while the game charged me 10 command points, 5 for each tank, it only charged me the 95 cost in resource points for the impored core tank:

g.jpg
g.jpg (625.98 KiB) Viewed 284 times

That's because the designer gave you another core tank in the scenario itself; i.e., he planned it in the editor and provided it as part of the design:

h.jpg
h.jpg (694.27 KiB) Viewed 284 times

So it boils down to this: If you import core units from a previous campaign, you must purchase them again using the resource and command points that the designer provided; else, if these were "free," they would upset the game balance of the scenario and campaign. The distinction can be seen here; the top "choreographed" tank's "10" is just its strength and will cost only 5 CPs while the bottom tank is an imported core unit and must be purchased with 95 RPs and 5 CPs:

i.jpg
i.jpg (115.18 KiB) Viewed 284 times
- Bru

Tharmas
Private First Class - Wehrmacht Inf
Private First Class - Wehrmacht Inf
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:26 am

Re: Core forces - free vs. "rebuild"

Post by Tharmas » Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:38 pm

yes, thanks, that all makes sense

Horst
Sr. Colonel - Battleship
Sr. Colonel - Battleship
Posts: 1609
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:22 pm

Re: Core forces - free vs. "rebuild"

Post by Horst » Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:30 pm

There is a huge discount on upgrading repurchased, imported core units. You only need to spend the cost difference to the new unit. There is no real reason to purchase new units thanks to this cost-saving and keeping experience (what's left of xp after importing). If old core units have less than 1-star experience (<2000xp) repurchasing them increases the xp (back) to 1 star if you own xp-booster specs like Tank/Flight School.

Post Reply

Return to “Order of Battle Series”