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Rostov mission always end in defeat.

Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 5:18 pm
by Pegon
Hi,

Playing the new campaign, the Rostov mission always end in defeat, even if the Germans never were in the city, and have been obliterated from the map. Can you look at this ?

Re: Rostov mission always end in defeat.

Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 5:29 pm
by bebro
Can you confirm that all objectives are checked green? Would you be able to attach a savegame?

Or was there ever a point where you lost one of your most northern gold hexes? This would get you a defeat since it is one of the primary objectives to never lose any of those two.

Re: Rostov mission always end in defeat.

Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 5:45 pm
by Pegon
I never lost any city. The file type is rejected when i try to upload.

Re: Rostov mission always end in defeat.

Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 5:47 pm
by bebro
It should be fine when you zip it. It would be extremely helpful to check what happened.

Re: Rostov mission always end in defeat.

Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 6:00 pm
by Pegon
[Red Star]save.zip
(42.81 KiB) Downloaded 14 times
Got some nukes, so will continue tomorrow

Re: Rostov mission always end in defeat.

Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 6:04 pm
by bebro
Thanks, I'm checking it asap.

Re: Rostov mission always end in defeat.

Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:04 pm
by bru888
What puzzled me about this is why I could not get a victory by simply "johnconnor-ing" through the scenario. Every time, no matter what I altered, deleted, or cloned, it came up like this:

Screenshot 1.jpg
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The "Never lose Stalino or Voroshilovgrad" objective would come up fine, but nothing would trigger the "Hold or retake Rostov" objective.

Until I took a look at this:

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You have the USSR orange alliance in the scenario, although there are no units assigned to it. Could it be that the hex belongs to them and that is why the trigger would not fire? So I "changed" (there's no obvious indication) those Rostov hexes to USSR green alliance:

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And I "johnconnor-ed" again. This time, it worked:

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So that may be a clue. The guys in beta may have changed Rostov hex ownership by simply moving green USSR units through Rostov, thus altering the conditions so that the trigger would fire. However, if that does not happen during the course of the scenario, ownership will remain with the orange USSR alliance and the trigger will not fire.

Re: Rostov mission always end in defeat.

Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:58 pm
by PoorOldSpike
Pegon wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 5:18 pm
..Playing the new campaign, the Rostov mission always end in defeat, even if the Germans never were in the city, and have been obliterated from the map. Can you look at this ?
The Objectives are clear enough, I just played it (vanilla, medium difficulty, no file-tweaking) and got the beloved 'Victory' message (below)
Note I only captured 2 of the 4 secondary cities but the game still credited me with a win bless its little cotton socks, so the moral is- don't bust a gut going for the Secondaries if they're a forlorn hope, and just settle for the Primaries..:)
For the record I spent to the hilt on T-34's and Fighters and held the Jerry offensive easily enough, but when 'counterattack time' came to go for the 4 secondary cities I ground to a halt due to attrition (sniffle)

PS- I noticed absolutely no bugs or glitches during the game, everything went off smoothly, but some of you guys seemed to have trouble, I've never heard of john Connor in OOB.

Image

Re: Rostov mission always end in defeat.

Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:04 pm
by CoolDTA
PoorOldSpike wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:58 pm
I've never heard of john Connor in OOB.
It is one of the console codes:

#johnconnor
disables AI
// AI-turns are basically skipped

I don't understand why Slitherine/Artistocrats continues to release these DLCs in such an unfinished state, when there is a simple fix available: just hire master Bru to do his CSI magic and be done with it. :x

Re: Rostov mission always end in defeat.

Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:08 pm
by bru888
CoolDTA wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:04 pm
I don't understand why Slitherine/Artistocrats continues to release these DLCs in such an unfinished state...
Well, to be fair, this one was a rather obscure oversight, if I am right; one that even a person doing such a CSI sweep would probably also overlook. But it is consistent; test it for yourself.

The primary victory conditions are such that, if one merely sits on the objectives and is not disturbed (#johnconnor), they should be completed. For some reason, Rostov is located on hexes that belong to another USSR alliance (orange) which I think changes when units of the other USSR alliance (green) move through them. But that does not necessarily happen in the course of play and this in turn could explain at least one of the failures reported by Pegon.

Notice, by the way, that when I did change the hex ownership, there is no noticeable difference in its appearance. That's because the faction governs and in both cases, orange and green, the faction is the same: USSR. So it's a very subtle issue that probably 9 times out of 10 makes no difference, but it is there and may cause an issue in the 10th instance.

Much of what I am saying is guesswork. I am not a programmer, so I rely on empirical evidence such as what I described above. Only when I get consistent results do I attempt to theorize, which may be wrong in part or in total. I believe it is a clue, though.

EDIT: Somebody else reported the same problem: http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtop ... 72&t=93484

Re: Rostov mission always end in defeat.

Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 3:03 pm
by CoolDTA
True, this particular oversight may be difficult to spot, but your report once again only strengthens my trust in your CSI skills. :) Incidentally, I was not referring to this DLC only, but to all of them. Unfortunately quality control is lacking - sometimes more, sometimes less. The missing language versions in this DLC is a new thing that is beyond amateurish.

Re: Rostov mission always end in defeat.

Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 3:04 pm
by PoorOldSpike
I notice that bugs/glitches/oddities seem to occur much more in campaign play than in standalone scenarios which is one of the reasons I've never been an OOB campaign fan, they're loaded down with too many fancy "specialisations" and things, hence the programs tendency to sometimes blow a fuse.
I've played and won 3 Red Star vanilla 8.1.0 standalone scens so far (Lake Khasan / Rostov / Summa 39) and they played absolutely smoothly and flawlessly without a bug or quirk in sight, so to newcomers I'd say play the standalones first before thinking about taking the plunge into the campaign.

Re: Rostov mission always end in defeat.

Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 4:07 pm
by CoolDTA
Each to his own, but for me - and I suspect to many others - it is the campaign which is the main attraction of OoB. Without campaigns my interest to this game would be zero. Yes, it is true some of the bugs only happen in a campaign. Those are often related to various campaign variables and something Bru is exceptionally good at dissecting.

Re: Rostov mission always end in defeat.

Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:44 pm
by Pegon
It is a small oversight yes, but no need for drama. Bebro was swift to respond, so this vill no doubt be fixed soon.

Re: Rostov mission always end in defeat.

Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 6:33 am
by terminator
CoolDTA wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:04 pm
I don't understand why Slitherine/Artistocrats continues to release these DLCs in such an unfinished state, when there is a simple fix available: just hire master Bru to do his CSI magic and be done with it. :x
Rostov is the 12th and penultimate scenario of this DLC. It is always more difficult to find bugs in the latest scenarios.

Re: Rostov mission always end in defeat.

Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:20 am
by CoolDTA
terminator wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 6:33 am
Rostov is the 12th and penultimate scenario of this DLC. It is always more difficult to find bugs in the latest scenarios.
True and I agree. Like I said earlier the comment was of the general lack of quality control in DLCs. Some of the bugs and omissions are so obvious that it is puzzling, how they have been left in the release versions. This bug was not one of those. Luckily Bru presented a way to avoid it until a new patch is released to fix it for good.

Re: Rostov mission always end in defeat.

Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:35 pm
by bru888
CoolDTA wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:20 am
Luckily Bru presented a way to avoid it until a new patch is released to fix it for good.
True. If I am right - although it sure looks that way based on the consistency of that test - then perhaps the best way to resolve the situation is to make sure to move (green) USSR units through the two Rostov squares. *

Hmmm. I feel another test coming on . . .

* EDIT: Not exactly true, as my test indicated below. The player must lose the one problematic hex to the Germans and then take it back.

Re: Rostov mission always end in defeat.

Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 5:18 pm
by bru888
Sure enough. At least part of my theory was true, the most important part.

In this test, I immobilized the Germans (#johnconnor) and merely moved out my units from the two Rostov victory points. As I had surmised, one hex was owned by the green USSR alliance and one by the orange (shows as brown on my screen) USSR alliance:

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That immediately proved what I was saying about changing the Rostov VP hex ownership to the green alliance in the editor to match the trigger. Then I restored the AI (#iamback) and allowed the Germans to take the orange/brown Rostov hex. Immobilizing them once again, I proceeded to fight like heck to take it back!

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When I occupied and subsequently left the hex, I saw that it was now in green USSR alliance hands:

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And when I "johnconnor-ed" through the rest of the turns, I had achieved a victory:

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I'd be willing to bet rubles to deutsche marks that this is the way guys have won this scenario; by losing the one Rostov hex (the German attack is powerful and nearby Soviet units are initially weak) then taking it back later on, thereby flipping the ownership of that hex to green USSR and thus fulfilling the mission.

Re: Rostov mission always end in defeat.

Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 6:56 pm
by CoolDTA
Thanks once again, Bru. :) I don't remember there ever being two different colors in the name plaques like that in other dlcs. Probably there has not been two friendly factions owning the hexes in a similar fashion. Or at least causing such a bug.

Re: Rostov mission always end in defeat.

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:56 pm
by bebro
Thx for the feedback everyone, there's a small hotfix out:
viewtopic.php?f=264&t=93534