DLC plans past Red Triology

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LandMarine47
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DLC plans past Red Triology

Post by LandMarine47 » Thu Apr 30, 2020 2:44 am

With Red Steel out, I am sure that many would love to speculate what exactly is coming after the final Red Army dlc (Wonder what it will be named, Red Fury or Red Steamroller?) Since I am sure this DLC will be like Endseig with a very long campaign to wrap up the Soviet WWII experience, I wondered what else OOB will get in the future.

1. I am sure OOB will eventually give us a western front campaign, but the question is how will OOB handle that campaign? I would love to see a British Core fighting in France in 1940 or Greece and Crete in 41, but if not we can always revisit the desert and take on the Afrika Corps until the US forces get involved. I think a potential western front campaign could also be the first to give us 3 core army groups, giving players a American Core (the largest of the 3) a British core, and a Canadian Core. Canada had plenty of unique battles that could either get their own respective scenarios (The Scheldt and the battle of Ortona are some easy examples) or simply work as a smaller independent force similar to the SS faction for the Germans. I would love to see an Endsieg style campaign if the player manages to pull of Operation Market Garden, but there is still plenty of fun to be had with a historical campaign.

2. An Australian/New Zealand campaign would be great, as it could start with a north African beginning then move over to some of the lesser known battles of the Southern Pacific Campaign, like the Kokoda Trail campaign. Limiting equipment like the Finnish DLC would make for an interesting campaign.

3. Chinese Campaign, This isn't the first time a Chinese counter to Morning Sun has been discussed, but a historical Chinese campaign where players could control both the nationalists and communists might work out, but I don't know if it would be very historically accurate to have both sides coordinating military plans, as they often opposed each other during the war. Either way the Sino Japanese war is never touched in most games period, it would be nice to play as the other side :wink:

4. France, another idea discussed many times, following the French from the beginning of the war (Maybe the first scenario could give us command of the failed invasion of 1939) to the fighting in North Africa and Italy to Operation Dragoon and the fighting around Colmar. Maybe it could follow what the Winter War DLC did and focus most of it's scenarios during the fall of france so we can use those French Giants against the feeble Panzer tanks.

5. Japanese Burma Road, another return to the Pacific, and it could go either was with a historical core that sees japan defeated, but instead of being restricted to Burma, players can also see the late war Chinese Offensives and resist the Soviet Invasion of Manchuria, or follow Rising Sun with the Japanese Army invading into India after Burma, with support from the small Indian national army.

These are just a few ideas I had, and regardless of what DLC are coming next, I look forward to them all! OOB has really grown on me and become one of my favorite strategy game, that hybrid of PzC and the Commander games with a lot of support from both devs and the community! Hope you can all add your two cents to the idea bin :)

Dmurphy238
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Re: DLC plans past Red Triology

Post by Dmurphy238 » Thu Apr 30, 2020 2:30 pm

I would love to see a Spanish Civil War campaign. I think there would be an interesting array of units and lots of room for “what ifs”. Plus, there is a nice little empty spot on the campaigns map where Spain is!

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Re: DLC plans past Red Triology

Post by bru888 » Thu Apr 30, 2020 2:42 pm

Dmurphy238 wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 2:30 pm
I would love to see a Spanish Civil War campaign. I think there would be an interesting array of units and lots of room for “what ifs”. Plus, there is a nice little empty spot on the campaigns map where Spain is!
This fellow is developing a very good mod; already in decent shape: viewtopic.php?f=374&t=88783
- Bru

LNDavoust
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Re: DLC plans past Red Triology

Post by LNDavoust » Fri May 01, 2020 2:56 am

Dmurphy238 wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 2:30 pm
I would love to see a Spanish Civil War campaign. I think there would be an interesting array of units and lots of room for “what ifs”. Plus, there is a nice little empty spot on the campaigns map where Spain is!
I had came to say hi, but bru already said it for me (thanks Bru!). In its present form the mod is playable through 9 scens, but If you are able to wait some weeks, Dmurphy, you coud try a more complete and polish version of the mod/campaign (14ish scens, hopefully) ^_^

I feel conflicted about an official Spanish Civil War Campaign DLC. On one side, I would LOVE to play it (at the end my main purpose for creating a mod myself is being able to play it xD). IMHO Rising Sun or Winter War (sort of) are the proof that OoB is a great game to portrait that kind of pre-WW2 conflicts. On the other side, and as a complete personal note, i think an official DLC could defeat the purpose of completing my mod, and after so many hours i would like to see the damned thing finished xD So yeah, conflicted :)

Also, i don't know how well it will sell a game based on this kind of "domestic little" war... Also, the last DLCs have focused in more advanced periods, with more modern weapons and equipments. Going back to the spanish war will mean no many new toys to the player, which is not the most sexy thing regarding potential buyers (i am the main sucker for the bigger/newest tank model in the dlcs)... I have my own opinion on how to make things interesting introducing new mechanics/units in OoB to make the period fun, but i don't know if they are feasible/smart (anyway, Aristrocrats, give me a call if you want some wild ideas ;) )

---

Going back to the main topic, i know that i would love to visit new conflicts (or theaters of war(aspects of known conflicts) in potential new DLCs for OoB. In the recent soviet campaings, i liked manchurian and crimean scenarios, but playing again and again Kharkov, after the german campaigns... not so much fun (for me at least). Maybe a crazy italian campaign with scens in Spain, Etiopia, North Africa, naval engagments...? A chinese one? A Free France take (i know there is something unofficial cooking in this regard ;))? A Commonwealth Campaign with dessert fights and pacific naval battles? That kind of things :)

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Re: DLC plans past Red Triology

Post by GabeKnight » Fri May 01, 2020 12:17 pm

LNDavoust wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 2:56 am
Going back to the main topic, i know that i would love to visit new conflicts (or theaters of war(aspects of known conflicts) in potential new DLCs for OoB. In the recent soviet campaings, i liked manchurian and crimean scenarios, but playing again and again Kharkov, after the german campaigns... not so much fun (for me at least). Maybe a crazy italian campaign with scens in Spain, Etiopia, North Africa, naval engagments...? A chinese one? A Free France take (i know there is something unofficial cooking in this regard ;))? A Commonwealth Campaign with dessert fights and pacific naval battles? That kind of things :)
Agree. I guess an US/Allied DLC trilogy can not be "avoided", and don't get me wrong, I like the German trilogy and the first Soviet DLC was nice because of the different battlefields, similar to Blitzkrieg, but I also hope for some "niche" DLCs in between the great trilogies.

It's time again for some naval battles and invasions... :twisted:
(But there probably are none historically, right...? :cry: )

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Re: DLC plans past Red Triology

Post by Erik2 » Fri May 01, 2020 12:52 pm

It looks like bebro is the only one assigned to creating campaigns currently.
I hope the devs will add one of the previous designers to help out.
3-6 years to finish the Anglo-American campaigns is a bit too much.

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Re: DLC plans past Red Triology

Post by GabeKnight » Fri May 01, 2020 1:29 pm

Erik2 wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 12:52 pm
I hope the devs will add one of the previous designers to help out.
Yeah, they should try to steal him back from PC2 somehow... :wink:

LNDavoust
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Re: DLC plans past Red Triology

Post by LNDavoust » Fri May 01, 2020 2:32 pm

Someone here has privileged information :)

But seriously, do we know who are the designers of each campaing? I always wondered if my favourite ones are the creation of the same guy(s) or if it's just a matter of coincidence that i like one or another. Sorry if the info is public and i just don't know where to look.

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Re: DLC plans past Red Triology

Post by GabeKnight » Fri May 01, 2020 3:19 pm

LNDavoust wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 2:32 pm
But seriously, do we know who are the designers of each campaing? I always wondered if my favourite ones are the creation of the same guy(s) or if it's just a matter of coincidence that i like one or another. Sorry if the info is public and i just don't know where to look.
If you're in the beta round of a DLC, you usually talk to the campaign designers themselves. So far I recall (at least) the WinterWar, Kriegsmarine and Sandstorm DLCs were made by a single "third party". And I've seen the same "third party" guy post in the PC2 beta threads while developing the campaign. My guess is that he's still there to design their new DLC content.

You may pick some of these things up if you're reading many post/threads, otherwise I don't think it's made public...but I don't think it's a secret either... :wink:

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Re: DLC plans past Red Triology

Post by Duplex » Sat May 02, 2020 5:20 am

Did someone mention China?

I say this a lot but I won’t stop lobbying for it :lol:, a China DLC would be absolutely fantastic. Would be an instant buy for me. Yes, it would undermine my own scenarios, but I love playing official content, it’s far better than mine!

Hmmm, LandMarine in the OP gave me a very big brain idea though...I’ll think about it and post my thoughts tomorrow.
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bebro
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Re: DLC plans past Red Triology

Post by bebro » Sat May 02, 2020 7:17 am

Lots of nice ideas in this thread, including some we have on the radar as well. :)

But it's way too early to tell more at this point, and beyond this year nothing is decided yet.

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Re: DLC plans past Red Triology

Post by Igor1941 » Sat May 02, 2020 1:24 pm

Only Spain 1936-1939

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Re: DLC plans past Red Triology

Post by LNDavoust » Sat May 02, 2020 1:49 pm

GabeKnight wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 3:19 pm

If you're in the beta round of a DLC, you usually talk to the campaign designers themselves. So far I recall (at least) the WinterWar, Kriegsmarine and Sandstorm DLCs were made by a single "third party". And I've seen the same "third party" guy post in the PC2 beta threads while developing the campaign. My guess is that he's still there to design their new DLC content.
Kriegsmarine, Winter War and Sandstorm were some of my favourite DLC. Mr Third Party, consider yourself seriously congratulated :D

I have never participate in a beta, maybe I should, shouldn't I?

Also, happy to see bebro around here these last days, I hope he gets useful feedback about Red Steel and beyond :idea:

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Re: DLC plans past Red Triology

Post by Duplex » Sat May 02, 2020 4:26 pm

Okay, so I gave it some thought, and here's my pitch for a DLC playing as the Chinese Nationalists (hopefully feasible):
The OP gave an idea by saying there could be multiple cores for a western front campaign. This could work, but as a mechanic for the Nationalists as well! To represent the fractured, horribly managed, 100% decentralized nature of the Chinese Nationalist army at the start of the Second Sino-Japanese War, the Nationalist armies could be split into say 8 (an arbitrary number) separate cores. That way, the RP and units would be managed separately, resembling some of the difficulties of going against the Japanese and the Chinese. Over time, cores (maybe? If feasible) could be merged into a central government one through specializations.

Along with that mechanic, I believe OOB works really well with small, little known campaigns, as proven by Winter War. I think people find it extremely enjoyable to play extremely handicapped at the start, but gradually develop. It adds an element of struggle in the game, which is what people crave. If everything was a pushover from the start, I don't think it would be that fun anymore. This is perfect for a Chinese DLC, as the Chinese at the start are handicapped by all sorts of outdated equipment, etc. , but as time goes on (a lot of time admittedly), the Chinese (with foreign help, US in particular) can slowly modernize. I really enjoyed the "equipment scrounging" efforts you had to make in Winter War, and it would apply well to China.

Furthermore, Morning Sun only touched on the parts where Japan was winning (duh), but there is a huge second half to the conflict. There are actually a lot of battles the Nationalists managed to win against the Japanese, especially post Ichigo, 1944-1945. Portraying only these battles in a China DLC, with some where you lose (strategically :lol:), wouldn't conflict with Morning Sun whatsoever.

A China DLC has the potential for fun, fresh mechanics, a really struggle at the start that then progressively eases up, and a host of battles/ retreating defeats to choose from. Sometimes, the scenarios where you need to withdraw while preserving forces are actually pretty enjoyable.
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Re: DLC plans past Red Triology

Post by bebro » Sat May 02, 2020 5:32 pm

Few thoughts, unrelated to what may come nor not:

Personally I think China has great potential for a linked 2-part DLC. Time-wise and from the number of battles even 3 parts could be filled easily, but this bears the risk of getting repetitive.

Because China does not nearly get the same amount of shiny toys to put into the unit roster compared to other main combattants, so core building/upgrading as a key part of the game would be somewhat limited.

Additonally to the collection of early units bought from various countries there's a decent amount of Soviet stuff once they start their early support (as in Morning Sun for the AI)

But more problematic is the later stage. There's US stuff for the Chi Exp. Force (which makes for some nice scn, probably), but the player shouldn't been able to mass-field US tanks or planes for the rest of the cam.

Also while Chi is certainly a nice subject, *if* we do it at some pt. that many cores may not be feasible though. Managing the rather difficult KMT/CCP relation would already be a challenge. ;)

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Re: DLC plans past Red Triology

Post by GabeKnight » Sat May 02, 2020 7:05 pm

Duplex, it seems your plan worked, and similar to the narrative of the movie "Inception", you've managed to plant that seed of an idea in the right head... :wink:

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Re: DLC plans past Red Triology

Post by Erik2 » Sun May 03, 2020 7:32 am

Maybe there's room for (at least) 2 Chinese campaigns, one Nationalist and one Communist.
First the Chinese faction battle the Japanese, then it is time for the Civil War.
The Sino-Japanese part could reuse/edit maps/OOBs from Morning Sun.
The Civil War campaigns could even use the same/similar maps/OOBs.

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Re: DLC plans past Red Triology

Post by MSW » Sun May 03, 2020 4:47 pm

Two ideas:

1. Royal Navy - a lot of various scenario possibilites:
- convoy escort against uboots/ luftwaffe
- convoy escort against surface raiders (arctic convoys)
- mano a mano with Raiders: Bismarck, Rio de la Plata
- "regrettable" actions against recent allies (France): Mers-el-Kabir
- small surface action against motor torpedo boats in north sea/ channel
- Narvik campaign
- evacuations: Dunkirk, Crete
- raids (Lofoten/ Dieppe)
- light flotilla action (force K/ subs from Malta) against italian convoys
- uboot hunter/killer air/sea patrols in Bay of Biscay
- surface night battles in Mediterranean
- major amphibious actions like Torch/ Sicilly/ Anzio (with US Navy), Normandy (primarily RN responsibility)

2. Polish campaign.
After USSR, US, GB and China, actually it was Poland that fielded biggest armed forces against Axis (not the French!), with forces in Western Armies (GB), eastern front (formed in 1943), and biggest resistance movement of all (Home Army, virtually an underground state in occupied area of Poland). Take a look at wiki page:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_co ... rld_War_II

Some highlights:
- start of WW2 in the west mean Poland was invaded full 360: by Germans from north, west and south; Slovakia from South, USSR from east; with some celebrated battles (like a week-long defense of Westerplatte, where "official" first shots by german pre-dreadnought Schleswig-Holstein were fired)
- Polish forces took part in Narvik campaign, as well as Battle of France
- Polish fighter pilots were 5% of those in allied forces of Battle of Britain, but accounted for 12% of german losses - polish Squadron 303 of Hurricanes was tops from all squadrons actually.
- Battle of Atlantic in general (convoy escort), including (inconsequential) gun duel by destroyer "Piorun" with Bismarck (really!)
- Army of general Anders, formed from prisoners from soviet gulags, released and that had to trek through USSR to Iran to join middle east British Army, subsequently taking part in North African and Italian Campaigns, including: "flying circus" of Skalski (spitfire fighter squadron), battle of Monte Cassino (biggest of Italian campaign, it was actually Poles who fought and took the Monastery)
- Normandy Landings, and Normandy campaign, and the really the rest of the Western Front
- Market Garden (yes, Gene Hackman is playing a Polish General in the movie "A Bridge to Far")
- an uprising in Warsaw, which took 2 months for massively overwhelming Wehrmaht to quench
- on the eastern front: Op Bagration and every subsequent op in central european plain (including battle for Berlin itself)

As well as some intelligence coups like getting the details of Enigma to French and British intelligene in the first days of war (yes Poles were doing the Enigma code-breaking years in advance of WW2), getting detailed V1 and V2 plans (and samples!), and getting intelligence on and documenting the holocaust and nazi concentration camps.

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Re: DLC plans past Red Triology

Post by LandMarine47 » Mon May 04, 2020 10:27 am

LNDavoust wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 2:56 am

---

Going back to the main topic, i know that i would love to visit new conflicts (or theaters of war(aspects of known conflicts) in potential new DLCs for OoB. In the recent soviet campaings, i liked manchurian and crimean scenarios, but playing again and again Kharkov, after the german campaigns... not so much fun (for me at least). Maybe a crazy italian campaign with scens in Spain, Etiopia, North Africa, naval engagments...? A chinese one? A Free France take (i know there is something unofficial cooking in this regard ;))?
A proper Italian Campaign would be rather interesting if it also incorporated the Italian Navy into the Player's core force. Scenarios would be rather hard to do with Sandstorm already out, and would have to focus on some mostly Italian operations before the Germans arrived in force. Perhaps an alternative could be a focus on the Italian Expeditionary Force to Russia. There were some very shinning moments from the Italians during Case Blue, and trying to hold the doomed flanks at Stalingrad with the poor tanks would be rather challenging but fun none the less. Ethiopian campaign is something I have never seen pulled off in most games, but how would the core work since the East African Army was meant to hold out as long as possible while the Libyan Army invaded Egypt.

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Re: DLC plans past Red Triology

Post by LandMarine47 » Mon May 04, 2020 10:33 am

Dmurphy238 wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 2:30 pm
I would love to see a Spanish Civil War campaign. I think there would be an interesting array of units and lots of room for “what ifs”. Plus, there is a nice little empty spot on the campaigns map where Spain is!
I agree! Can't believe I forgot about the potential in either a Nationalist or Republican Campaign. However someone is already working on a Republican mod, so maybe he will scratch that itch for us :wink:

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