Any Interest in a 2nd Italian War Campaign?

Byzantine Productions Pike and Shot is a deep strategy game set during the bloody conflict of the Thirty Years War.

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w_michael
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Any Interest in a 2nd Italian War Campaign?

Post by w_michael » Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:09 pm

I would like to propose a 10-player campaign inspired by the old board game Machiavelli: https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/286/machiavelli

The sides are (Age of Machiavelli army lists):
Austria: Imperialist 1494 - 1519
Florence: Italian 1494 - 1530
France: French 1494 - 1525
Genoa: Italian 1494 - 1530
Milan: Italian 1494 - 1530
Naples: Spanish 1494 - 1502
Papacy: Italian 1494 - 1530
Sienna: Italian 1494 - 1530
Venice: Italian 1494 - 1530
Turks: Ottoman Turkish 1494 - 1559

The sides are asymmetrical, in that they differ in the number of starting armies and fleets, and have different levels of resources. The campaign would start in 1499 AD, and there are three turns per year: spring, summer, and fall. Machiavelli can be a complex campaign, with rules for: famine, plague, assassins, rebellions, raising new armies/fleets, replacements/reinforcements, bribes and counter-bribes, loans & gifts, to name a few. If players prefer a simpler campaign then any of the rules can be omitted. With multiple armies you may have to fight multiple P&S PBEM battles per turn (simultaneously), or fight none at all depending on movement outcomes.

I likely wouldn't start this until January, but I wanted to see if there was enough interest (i.e. 10 players) for me to develop the rules in my spare time. I would moderate the campaign and not play.

Here is the map (with the armies and fleets at the start of the campaign):
P&S_Machiavelli.jpg
Campaign Map, Spring 1499 AD
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SnuggleBunnies
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Re: Any Interest in a 2nd Italian War Campaign?

Post by SnuggleBunnies » Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:33 am

I would play.

TheGrayMouser
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Re: Any Interest in a 2nd Italian War Campaign?

Post by TheGrayMouser » Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:27 am

Oh yeah, I'd be in!

w_michael
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Re: Any Interest in a 2nd Italian War Campaign?

Post by w_michael » Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:08 am

I ran a DBR miniatures campaign using the map above, and most of the Machiavelli rules. The game is similar to Diplomacy in that fleet units can control bodies of water, ferry armies across a body of water, and capture coastal areas (even fight an army in that coastal area). Fleet vs. fleet combat was abstracted by a die roll on a Naval Combat Table. For fleet vs. army combat I think that we fought it out as if it was an army vs. army battle. I'll have to look at rules that I worked out then.

Movement is by written orders, executed simultaneously. Armies/fleets can support another army/fleet in an adjacent area, which can be handled by one of the Reinforcements scenario types. Defeated armies/fleets have to retreat one area, and are eliminated if they cannot.

Famine and Plague affect one or more areas for a turn, determined by a die roll on an appropriate table.

On the map, squares are armies, boats are fleets, and triangles are garrison (immobile) armies. Ports are indicated by lighthouses (where fleets are built). Black dots represent cities, and black squares represent fortified cities. Each owned province, fleet occupied sea area, or city/city point generates 1 Ducat of income, and there is a Variable Income table for each nation which simulates foreign trade or off map resources (from 1 to 6 Ducats; from 2 to 10 Ducats for Florence or Venice). Each army/fleet costs 3 Ducats to maintain and a new army/fleet costs 3 Ducats to build.
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Re: Any Interest in a 2nd Italian War Campaign?

Post by SnuggleBunnies » Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:31 am

I've played Diplomacy, so should be easy enough to grasp for me!

w_michael
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Re: Any Interest in a 2nd Italian War Campaign?

Post by w_michael » Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:34 am

SnuggleBunnies wrote:I've played Diplomacy, so should be easy enough to grasp for me!
With nations in such close proximity, the diplomacy phase is very important for survival for a nation like Sienna (which I played in the DBR campaign).
Last edited by w_michael on Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Any Interest in a 2nd Italian War Campaign?

Post by TheGrayMouser » Tue Nov 07, 2017 2:06 am

Are those rules (Machiavelli and or Diplomacy) commercial rules? or "community made"?

w_michael
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Re: Any Interest in a 2nd Italian War Campaign?

Post by w_michael » Tue Nov 07, 2017 2:42 am

TheGrayMouser wrote:Are those rules (Machiavelli and or Diplomacy) commercial rules? or "community made"?
Commercial. Try the BoardGameGeek.com site to see reviews.
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Re: Any Interest in a 2nd Italian War Campaign?

Post by TheGrayMouser » Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:16 am

Thanks, and oops, you had that noted already in your 1st post. Wow Avalon Hill, haven't bought one of theirs game in 30 years. And they appear to cost about 10 times as much as they did then!

w_michael
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Re: Any Interest in a 2nd Italian War Campaign?

Post by w_michael » Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:35 am

TheGrayMouser wrote:Thanks, and oops, you had that noted already in your 1st post. Wow Avalon Hill, haven't bought one of theirs game in 30 years. And they appear to cost about 10 times as much as they did then!
I'm an old geezer who started playing board wargames in the late 1960's. I still own Diplomacy (the original with wooden pieces) and the first edition Machiavelli (hence my more colourful map). I think that some of the old board games can be used as good campaign rules. This was an interesting read, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diplomacy_(game), as it also mentions Machiavelli.

I made a Punic Wars map for DBA, based on the S&T game map, but the game system was rubbish so I am still thinking about how to make a good multiplayer campaign.
PunicWars.jpg
Map set up for the 1st Punic War
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Re: Any Interest in a 2nd Italian War Campaign?

Post by TheGrayMouser » Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:17 pm

Nice map!. Never even heard of these games but back in the day one was limited by word of mouth or what your friends older brothers were playing. I never even knew about the wider world of TT ancient/pike and shot etc gaming until I began playing FOG1 pc game in 09'.

May I suggest you PM some people about this campain? I feel like this forum is a little dry with FOG2 out and also P&S has less of a rabid following as ancients.
Players from some of the prior campaigns posted here? Chaps like stockwellpete are also interested more in medieval type carnage and this might interest him.

w_michael
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Re: Any Interest in a 2nd Italian War Campaign?

Post by w_michael » Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:02 pm

Thanks for the suggestion about a PM to interested parties. I'm pretty busy right now with having sold our house, packing, and searching for a new house. That is why I am putting out feelers for a campaign in the new year. I will probably send out the PM's in January to stir up interest.

While packing, I came across the hard copy of Battles and Generals of the Civil Wars 1642 - 1651 by Rogers Col H C B that I bought for myself when I was in high school. That was my first introduction into the Pike & Shot era. I then bought and read Machiavelli's Art of War and I was hooked.
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Re: Any Interest in a 2nd Italian War Campaign?

Post by awesum4 » Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:33 am

Count me in please. I really liked the ECW campaign the GDods ran for a while.

I played diplomacy a lot 45 years ago. Never ever play it with your wife or girlfriend, they do not understand that stabbing people in the back is an acceptable way of behaving, and it doesn't mean you are a treacherous arsehole in real life.

I will mention it to the guys I play games with on here and some who used to play in the past, it shouldn't be a problem getting 10 players even if half of them are Kiwis

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Re: Any Interest in a 2nd Italian War Campaign?

Post by youngr » Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:20 pm

I'd be interested in playing too. Looks fun

Richard

w_michael
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Re: Any Interest in a 2nd Italian War Campaign?

Post by w_michael » Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:05 pm

Great. It should be easy to adapt the board game Machiavelli to a P&S campaign, based on the level of complexity desired by the participants.

I threw up the Punic Wars map as a teaser for the FoG2 players out there. I've been thinking that a team game, Carthage vs. Rome, might be the best approach. If the players on each team rotated playing each army leader on their side then it might mitigate the tedium of playing the same army match ups vs. the same players over and over again.
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Re: Any Interest in a 2nd Italian War Campaign?

Post by lascar » Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:43 pm

A very intriguing proposal using the Machiavelli game. I am definitely interested.

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Re: Any Interest in a 2nd Italian War Campaign?

Post by ahuyton » Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:40 am

It looks interesting, and I would be happy to take part.

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Re: Any Interest in a 2nd Italian War Campaign?

Post by KiwiWarlord » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:04 am

awesum4 wrote:Count me in please. I really liked the ECW campaign the GDods ran for a while.

I will mention it to the guys I play games with on here and some who used to play in the past, it shouldn't be a problem getting 10 players even if half of them are Kiwis
Make it Kiwis V Italians

w_michael
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Re: Any Interest in a 2nd Italian War Campaign?

Post by w_michael » Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:23 am

Great. I'll be working on the board game to campaign rules conversion more over the Christmas holidays.
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Re: Any Interest in a 2nd Italian War Campaign?

Post by Pixel » Sat Dec 23, 2017 1:05 am

I might be interested if there is space. Haven't done one of these before but like the early army lists.
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