"Impact"

Byzantine Productions Pike and Shot is a deep strategy game set during the bloody conflict of the Thirty Years War.

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Uncle Lumpy
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"Impact"

Post by Uncle Lumpy » Thu Apr 30, 2020 1:02 pm

Greetings y'all! Probably a very, very nob question, but... If a unit has an "Impact" bonus/benefit/modifier(?) does that only apply when the unit charges another unit? Or does it also apply when that unit is attacked? Sorry IMHO a lot of the key rules are rather strangely worded (they seem to explain what a unit can do by describing what it cannot!? Very confusing for me). I'm guessing "Impact" only applies to a unit's initial charge POA. Hovering the tool tip thing doesn't really work on a defending unit. I'm really enjoying the game and attempting to understand it better. Thank you for any clarification!!

Athos1660
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Re: "Impact"

Post by Athos1660 » Thu Apr 30, 2020 4:14 pm

Hello,

The charges are considered as mutual. When you charge, the enemy also charges and vice versa.
And Impact/melee PoA will apply depending on the rules applicable in each case.

You can see it in this example :

Image

In this case, during the Impact, the rules are (p. 36) :
- Me : Impact Pistol+100 against any except (...) impact mounted.
- The enemy : Impact mounted+100 against any
Thus : Net Impact PoA = Enemy unit +100

Have fun :-)

Uncle Lumpy
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Re: "Impact"

Post by Uncle Lumpy » Thu Apr 30, 2020 5:13 pm

Thank you Athos. Now it makes more sense. And I am having fun!! :D

SnuggleBunnies
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Re: "Impact"

Post by SnuggleBunnies » Sat May 02, 2020 1:05 am

Keep in mind though, there are Impact abilities that only trigger when your unit is charged. For example, Attached Light Guns give +50POA when charged, but not when charging.

KiwiWarlord
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Re: "Impact"

Post by KiwiWarlord » Thu May 28, 2020 10:58 pm

White Mountain Obstacle.jpg
White Mountain Obstacle.jpg (138.26 KiB) Viewed 291 times
Question re 'Obstacles' & 'Impact'
The Hussars were behind an enclosure wall and the Kurassiers during a pursuit charged them across the obstacle.
The Rule Book, page 49 14.6.2 Obstacle effects, says "Troops that charge enemy across an obstacle lose all benefits that they would have had if the enemy charged them"
Yet the Kurassiers had +100 POA for 'Impact' ?
and yes I know how fortunate my Hussars were being able to withstand the charge, a 6:1 to me I think :D

SnuggleBunnies
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Re: "Impact"

Post by SnuggleBunnies » Thu May 28, 2020 11:58 pm

I believe this is working as designed. Impact (Pistol) does not depend on being in Open terrain to happen, unlike Impact Mounted or Heavy Lancers (see the Impact table in the manual, pg. 36). Furthermore, the obstacle gives no defensive benefit to cavalry (unless counting as non-Open terrain can be considered a benefit - and in this matchup it is irrelevant).

Instead, the Kurassiers are at +100POA because those Hussars I believe are Carbine, Pistol (Melee). Carbine offers no Impact POA, and neither does Pistol (Melee). So the all that's left is the simple math, which adds up.

KiwiWarlord
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Re: "Impact"

Post by KiwiWarlord » Fri May 29, 2020 8:16 am

Yes SB I know all of what you say, & thanks for the reply, but the fact that the Rule Book states
" Troops that charge enemy across an obstacle lose all benefits that they would have had if the enemy charged them "
If the Hussars had charged the Kurassiers over the obstacle then the Kurassiers would be entitled to 'Pistol Impact +100 POA"
but as the Kurassiers charged the Hussars over the obstacle then they should lose the +100 POA surely ?
Note ' Troops ' means Foot & Mounted does it not ?
Yes the Pistol Impact+100 counts in any terrain so therefore the question, I guess, is " Is the Pistol Impact +100 a Benefit " ?

Dobri_i
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Re: "Impact"

Post by Dobri_i » Fri May 29, 2020 9:50 am

KiwiWarlord wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 8:16 am
" Troops that charge enemy across an obstacle lose all benefits that they would have had if the enemy charged them "
Paragraph 14.6.2 begins with "foot defending obstracles count as protected" and continues with benefits for foot ONLY. Truly the paragraph ends with "Troops that charge enemy across an obstacle lose all benefits that they would have had if the enemy charged them", but accordnig to the spirit of the paragraph :lol: it is clear that troops means the above mentioned foot.

SnuggleBunnies
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Re: "Impact"

Post by SnuggleBunnies » Fri May 29, 2020 11:41 am

That's correct. 'Benefits' refers to the bonuses foot troops receive from obstacles that they don't get in the open.

KiwiWarlord
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Re: "Impact"

Post by KiwiWarlord » Fri May 29, 2020 9:00 pm

So horsemen charge over walls at charge speed in good order holding their pistols in one hand, reins in the other & aiming their pistols as though on the flat ?
Have you ever ridden a horse you guys ?

SnuggleBunnies
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Re: "Impact"

Post by SnuggleBunnies » Fri May 29, 2020 9:27 pm

It's the same in FoGII. Richard would be the person to ask as to why it's set to work the way it does.

KiwiWarlord
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Re: "Impact"

Post by KiwiWarlord » Sat May 30, 2020 6:46 am

Thanks all for your replies. I'm sure you guys are right and the game plays as written by the rules. I read too much into the Obstacle effects.

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