Battle for Seelow Heights... Road to Berlin

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GottaLove88s
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Battle for Seelow Heights... Road to Berlin

Post by GottaLove88s » Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:54 pm

ACH GOTT!! GL88s has escaped from a Siberian gulag... and has stumbled into BA2... Noooooooo!!

Thanks everyone... Updated Vistula to Berlin 1945 - Battle #1: Seelow Heights v1.1b is now available to download

Image

Download in the usual way
GottaLove88s wrote:1. Run BA2 on your Mac, PC or iPad
2. If you have not previously installed VTB'45, skip ahead to Step 8... If you have, then you must delete your old version first (steps 3-7)
3. Choose Multiplayer (from the menu at the right)
4. Log in to Multiplayer as usual
5. Choose the My Challenges tab (at the top) then press New Challenge (bottom centre)
6. Select the VTB'45 Battle #1 scenario and then Delete this Campaign (bottom right)
7. Press X until you get back to BA2 start screen
8. Choose Campaigns (from the menu at the right)
9. Choose Download Community Scenarios (stacked folders icon at the top)
10. Choose Download a Campaign Package from the Internet (red basket icon to the top right)
11. Type http://bit.ly/VTB1945 into the URL box
12. Click the green tick
13. Back at the campaigns list, select "VTB45 Battle #1: Seelow Heights v1.1b" and click Download the Selected Campaign (folder with red arrow icon, bottom centre)
14. This should download everything that you need
15. Press X until you get back to the BA2 start screen and choose Multiplayer
16. Log in to Multiplayer as usual
17. Either go to the My Challenges tab and click the New Challenge arrow. This list will now show the Vistula to Berlin VTB45 Series campaign
18. Or go to the Accept Challenges tab and click the scenario that you're supposed to be fighting (if your opponent has already setup your game)

Finally you can play VTB'45 on any platform... Phew!!
v1.1 has been updated with your feedback on v1.0, including:

- German nebelwerfer/Me262 can no longer target Kustrin or the Oder bridges
- Germans get fewer free units, and fewer elites
- Soviet militia upgraded to SMGs and riflemen
- Soviets get two IS2s (I think I've been had, Al - there is no IS1 model in BA2! ;-) )
- German 120mm mortars softened to 82mm (Let me know if these are now too weak, and I can increase to 3-man mortar team)
- Lots more mud and other obstructions, with broken road/tracks on the Heights, to slow down one-turn relocation of 88s (Best I can do for now, Justin, but happy to add in a Kfz 6,7,8 model if we can find one)
- Dead units now lose their line of sight (LOS) when they die (versus losing LOS at the end of the next turn) (Thanks for the reminder, P-A!)
- Soviet ZiS-3 bombard strengthened slightly (Let me know if you find this too strong, and I can tone it down)
- Infantry squads can now jump on the back of some large tanks, to get to the Front faster (Sorry, I was lazy to code this properly, so it also means that the same large tanks can pull artillery too)

Retained features of v1.0:

- Vistula to Berlin 1945 (VTB'45) modified units, with recon cars that can actually reconnoitre and more infantry per unit, to overcome the one shot and you're suppressed grunt duels of plain vanilla BA (with thanks to Granfali for his clever innovation to do this in GJS'44)


But first, some tasty screenshots and some warnings... Don't expect instant action. This is strategy... Both sides have lots of units. Both sides have very useful bonuses. Use 'em wisely... Both sides can make plenty of smoke. If you want to win, forget smoke at your peril...

It's an epic but it should be a fun replication of one of the more fascinating battles of WW2... All feedback welcome please. Am happy to tweak it, to get the balance right... With these changes, I'd expect the Soviets to win at least 4 to 1. But they will still have to fight hard versus a cunning German opponent... Enjoy guys! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

1st WARNING: It's a large map with plenty of hidden treats for Generals with the patience (and persistence) to seek them
Image

2nd WARNING: It's a slow starter. You have got to enjoy taking at least your first 3-4 turns to position large forces the way you want them
Image

3. The Russians get 64 fixed units... I want to create the illusion of this being Zhukov's million man 1st Belorussian Front... If you start as the Reds, you're going to feel invincible with your troops marshalled along the shattered streets of Kustrin
Image

4. The Germans get just enough free units plus 1500 points to spend. As in 1945, the Wehrmacht enjoys sloping terrain advantages and is well dug in. Here a Puma scout car looks down on the burned out shell of Kustrin town and ponders its own fate
Image

5. Zhukov begins his advance. The Soviets deploy a battery of four 76mm artillery guns... The wily Red is going to need the smoke that those babies can shoot...
Image

6. The Puma keeps a watchful eye on the enemy vanguard. I've modified unit characteristics so that the Puma and T70 'recon' cars now enjoy genuine reconnaissance abilities, longer visual range than other tanks
Image

7. Awesome height perspective as the Puma radios back locations of the lead Su-122. Entrenched veteran gunners prepare to open fire... The Reds should have covered their advance with smoke from the Zis-3 battery
Image

8. But the Germans face overwhelming enemy superiority of numbers... so a cunning commander might hide something special at the village... The Russians must take all four VPs to secure the Road to Berlin
Image

The eagle eyed among you will note that multiple bonuses are available... including spotter planes for both sides, large scale artillery, Katyusha & Nebelwerfer rocket barrages, Sturmovik IL-2 ground strike aircraft and the Luftwaffe's last few Me262s...

Did I mention that volunteers are kindly requested...? :oops:


ORIGINAL POST:

Just wondering...

Has anyone released a Seelow Heights scenario yet?
If not, would anyone like to play this?

If there's any interest, we could attempt it as a one-off (like Dieppe) ... Or even as part of a Vistula to the Reichstag 'manyplayer' campaign (like GJS'44)

Gotta run. The men in white coats are chasing me with a syringe... again... 8)

Historical Links for the curious (old habits die hard, lol)

http://ww2warstories.tripod.com/id10.htm
http://militaryhistory.about.com/od/WWI ... eights.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vistula–Oder_Offensive
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army_Group_Vistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_ ... ow_Heights
http://www.militaryhistoryonline.com/ww ... ights.aspx
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzer_Division_Müncheberg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udPVLqxRQX0

Strategic & Tactical Maps

Image
Image
Image

(Thanks for kind messages which am receiving now... Forgive me... Was offline for sometime, for important personal reasons... Switched off everything BA and didn't realise PMs were going straight to spam... Then didn't have time to come back, for career reasons... But am still alive, kind of... MERRY CHRISTMAS TO YOU & YOURS... And warmest wishes for a happy, healthy and prosperous 2015)
Last edited by GottaLove88s on Tue Jan 06, 2015 12:54 pm, edited 11 times in total.
SCENARIO LINKS
Seelow'45 -> www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=313&t=55132
Normandy'44 -> www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=87&t=42094
Dieppe'42 -> www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=87&t=42347

Richcat
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Re: Battle for Seelow Heights... Road to Berlin

Post by Richcat » Tue Dec 30, 2014 7:02 pm

Welcome back mate :D its great to see you on here again. 8)
Cheers
Richcat

GottaLove88s
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Re: Battle for Seelow Heights... Road to Berlin

Post by GottaLove88s » Tue Dec 30, 2014 7:11 pm

Thanks Richcat... As always, am grateful for your generosity of spirit, hospitality, encouragement and kindness...
And intrigued by the potential of Pip's new baby!!
SCENARIO LINKS
Seelow'45 -> www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=313&t=55132
Normandy'44 -> www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=87&t=42094
Dieppe'42 -> www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=87&t=42347

GottaLove88s
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Re: Battle for Seelow Heights... Road to Berlin

Post by GottaLove88s » Tue Dec 30, 2014 7:12 pm

Was messing around with the new BA2 Editor just now...

Three level hills... WHAT?!?!
Any idea how they work for gameplay?
That is something I could definitely roll into Seelow Heights...
SCENARIO LINKS
Seelow'45 -> www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=313&t=55132
Normandy'44 -> www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=87&t=42094
Dieppe'42 -> www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=87&t=42347

jcb989
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Re: Battle for Seelow Heights... Road to Berlin

Post by jcb989 » Tue Dec 30, 2014 8:53 pm

Hullo GL88

There are some problems with hill line of sights. They are working on it (I hope).

Glad to see you back, even if for just a little while =)

cavehobbit
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Re: Battle for Seelow Heights... Road to Berlin

Post by cavehobbit » Tue Dec 30, 2014 9:32 pm

It's great to see you back! :D

And the idea of a manyplayer campaign is really tempting...

GottaLove88s
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Re: Battle for Seelow Heights... Road to Berlin

Post by GottaLove88s » Tue Dec 30, 2014 10:57 pm

Hey, thanks guys... It's great to be back... :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Hmmm... Ok, I'm going to have a go at creating a Kustrin-Oder-Seelow scenario based on this map...

I think I remember how to draw stuff, but I can't remember any of the coding... If I make a map, can you help me to make it live?
Attachments
Kustrin-Oder-Seelow.jpg
Kustrin-Oder-Seelow.jpg (232.19 KiB) Viewed 14182 times
SCENARIO LINKS
Seelow'45 -> www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=313&t=55132
Normandy'44 -> www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=87&t=42094
Dieppe'42 -> www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=87&t=42347

Richcat
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Re: Battle for Seelow Heights... Road to Berlin

Post by Richcat » Tue Dec 30, 2014 11:04 pm

Hi GL88
For 3 level hills have a look at BA2 wiki build 0005 https://sites.google.com/site/battleaca ... llfeatures light bedtime reading :roll: But don't get too carried away
and there was this post viewtopic.php?f=221&t=53633 which I believe jcb989 is referring to.
Cheers
Richcat

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Re: Battle for Seelow Heights... Road to Berlin

Post by morge4 » Tue Dec 30, 2014 11:26 pm

Woo Hoo!!! He's BACK! :D Welcome back!

I too would be very interested in a multi-player campaign! And would love too see the old Seelow Heights from PG resurrected in BA2.

Don't let them catch you...those syringe needles can hurt. :( :wink:

And a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you!

jcb989
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Re: Battle for Seelow Heights... Road to Berlin

Post by jcb989 » Wed Dec 31, 2014 12:07 am

Richcat wrote:there was this post viewtopic.php?f=221&t=53633 which I believe jcb989 is referring to.
yes that's it, I apologize for my laziness in my last post to not go find it, thank you Richcat.

GottaLove88s
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Re: Battle for Seelow Heights... Road to Berlin

Post by GottaLove88s » Wed Dec 31, 2014 7:53 am

Thanks for the heads up on how hills are supposed to work... It's interesting to read Enric and Pip's discussions on where hills seem to trip up...

Hmmm... I'd started this last night... so I'll keep going with it, to see how it plays out... The map in the photo below is rotated to show the Russian view, from East facing West. The approach from Kustrin begins at the bottom... First obstacle is the broad Oder River, via a road or a railway bridge... then the plains begin to rise... There is a second, smaller river, before the Heights themselves... Seelow village, or dorf, sits on the Heights, leading to a descent... ... ... and the Road to Berlin... but that's for another scenario (or 'manyplayer' Campaign if I can persuade anyone? ;-) )

Based on your warnings, I'm creating Seelow Heights as multiple ascending plains, rather than anything too steep and nasty... which will be less realistic, but hopefully won't mess up BA2's game engine too much...

(If folks are happy to playtest, we can then iron out any truly bizarre LOS issues, by modifying the hills... I hope)
Attachments
Seelow1.jpg
Seelow1.jpg (235.03 KiB) Viewed 14128 times
Last edited by GottaLove88s on Wed Dec 31, 2014 9:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
SCENARIO LINKS
Seelow'45 -> www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=313&t=55132
Normandy'44 -> www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=87&t=42094
Dieppe'42 -> www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=87&t=42347

GottaLove88s
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Re: Battle for Seelow Heights... Road to Berlin

Post by GottaLove88s » Wed Dec 31, 2014 7:55 am

Hey guys! Where did Slitherine hide the trench graphics?
Are trenches in one of the Overlay sets? Can't find them anywhere...
And Seelow needs trenches...!!
SCENARIO LINKS
Seelow'45 -> www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=313&t=55132
Normandy'44 -> www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=87&t=42094
Dieppe'42 -> www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=87&t=42347

GottaLove88s
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Re: Battle for Seelow Heights... Road to Berlin

Post by GottaLove88s » Wed Dec 31, 2014 8:01 am

Many Christmas and a very happy new year to you, your family and loved ones too, P-A, Al & Justin... !!
:mrgreen: :D :mrgreen: :D :mrgreen:
SCENARIO LINKS
Seelow'45 -> www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=313&t=55132
Normandy'44 -> www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=87&t=42094
Dieppe'42 -> www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=87&t=42347

cavehobbit
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Re: Battle for Seelow Heights... Road to Berlin

Post by cavehobbit » Wed Dec 31, 2014 9:06 am

Thanks! Happy new year to you! :D

I'll be happy to help you test your map.

enric
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Re: Battle for Seelow Heights... Road to Berlin

Post by enric » Wed Dec 31, 2014 9:49 am

Welcome back, we though you was captured during combat :)

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Re: Battle for Seelow Heights... Road to Berlin

Post by Richcat » Wed Dec 31, 2014 10:02 am

The trenches are in "object placement mode" under "Russia" and "Russia Winter"
trench_bend
trench_bunkercollar
trench_end
trench_straight
trench_straight1
trench_T

Obviously winter versions in other :wink:

Merry Xmas and happy New Year Guys.
Cheers
Richcat

GottaLove88s
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Re: Battle for Seelow Heights... Road to Berlin

Post by GottaLove88s » Wed Dec 31, 2014 10:21 am

Thanks Richcat! Got em.

Gracias también, Sr Herrera! What can I say? I was "helping the Gestapo with their enquiries". Something to do with Rommel and the Fuhrer...
SCENARIO LINKS
Seelow'45 -> www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=313&t=55132
Normandy'44 -> www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=87&t=42094
Dieppe'42 -> www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=87&t=42347

GottaLove88s
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Re: Battle for Seelow Heights... Road to Berlin

Post by GottaLove88s » Wed Dec 31, 2014 10:22 am

Latest incarnation of Seelow Heights...

I'm going to try to make it a real ballbuster... Last stand of the Wehrmacht 9th Army under Heinrici/Busse... versus wave upon wave of Zhukov's 1st Byelorussian Front...

Soviets start east of the River Oder (bottom of the map below)... with the railroad crossing, or a steel road bridge available... plus the sharp eyed will note a pontoon bridge erected by comrade engineers to the far right...

Flood plains, marsh and farmland, lead to the first hill, with its own small river...

The second hill has a trench line... Deep forest begins to the south (left)...

Finally there is the third hill, another trench line... and Seelow village itself...

If the Soviets get that far, then they can open the Road to Berlin...
Attachments
Seelow1.jpg
Seelow1.jpg (244.89 KiB) Viewed 14097 times
Last edited by GottaLove88s on Wed Dec 31, 2014 3:06 pm, edited 3 times in total.
SCENARIO LINKS
Seelow'45 -> www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=313&t=55132
Normandy'44 -> www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=87&t=42094
Dieppe'42 -> www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=87&t=42347

GottaLove88s
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Re: Battle for Seelow Heights... Road to Berlin

Post by GottaLove88s » Wed Dec 31, 2014 11:20 am

Current plans for units

Heinrici's Army Group Vistula, of which Busse's 9th Army was a part, actually had some of the Wehrmacht's best kit of 1945, even including Tiger IIs... But not a lot.

To retain historical accuracy, I'll give the Germans a small number of tanks, quite a few 88s, and lots of infantry... If I have time (or anyone wants to help) we could create 5-man Luftwaffe units (I think I've seen Luftwaffe pilots somewhere in the Sealion scenarios?) to represent some of the poorly trained ground troops pressed and dug in at Seelow...

The 1st Byelorussian Front will be a mixed bag of Russian veteran riflemen, partisans (to reflect the variable quality of troops)... supported by a large number of T34s... I'd like to playtest (Volunteers please! :D ) but am guessing Zhukov will need a 3-4:1 unit advantage to overcome terrain and defence positions...

If you've played the Dieppe or GJS'44 maps, I'll try to hide in some sneaky routes as well as the obvious... Whatever you do, the German 88s and MG42s are going to eat up the first couple of waves of T34s and Russian infantrymen... After that, your fate is in your hands...

One single VP. The Road to Berlin.

Smoke essential...
SCENARIO LINKS
Seelow'45 -> www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=313&t=55132
Normandy'44 -> www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=87&t=42094
Dieppe'42 -> www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=87&t=42347

jcb989
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Re: Battle for Seelow Heights... Road to Berlin

Post by jcb989 » Wed Dec 31, 2014 2:57 pm

Be aware that AT guns in the current release BA2 are made of papier-mâché and are generally taken out by one overhead shot action from any mortar. Its a real balance problem in many folk's opinion, something I expect they will adjust on the next release. So in the meantime, your 88's may not be as fearsome as you remember from BA1.
Here is the background reading: viewtopic.php?f=221&t=53711&hilit=AT+gun#p501331

Your poorly trained German units were four "Fortress Grenadier" regiments, composed of a mixture of Volkssturm battalions and other improvised "alarm" units, together with supporting artillery, engineers, and anti-tank units- according to Wiki. I expect BA2 expansion packs will address the road to Berlin themselves some day and produce their own Volkssturm unit. I would suggest someone model a Volkssturm unit for you from the Russian Partisan models, just change their clothes and hats a bit, lol. Also I'm still waiting for someone skilled to model a Panzerfaust type of unit! The Volksstrum Panzerfaust unit seems like a nice pairing against the 2-man units like sticky bombers and molotov cocktails:

viewtopic.php?f=105&t=53795&hilit=panzerfaust


I too would be happy to play test with you guys.

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