Scenario Obedience to Orders - victory conditions

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fsx
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Scenario Obedience to Orders - victory conditions

Post by fsx » Fri Nov 21, 2014 8:58 am

The information "no other unit than the aux Titan should been near the victory hex" is not stored in "missions objectives" (the "i"-button)

Are the victory conditions wrong?
side 1 = Steel legion
aux unit = Titan
no VH actions in this scenario

1st condition: Why I win, if I lose the Titan? aux units side 1 in all map = 0 --> Change side 1 to side 2 and use "all units" OR change winner side
2nd: okay
3rd: captured the VH and no enemy units in zone 3 - could be okay
4rd: captured one VH -could be okay

3 & 4: Why do you need condition 3? If enemy units in zone 3, the condition 4 triggers. --> remove trigger 3
Why the strong enemy units appear, if my titan steps into zone 3? --> all these enemy units should have core instead of aux in their trigger

I killed all units around the VH with my core units and captured with them the VH. --> Victory!!
The special strong ork units never appeared.
Last edited by fsx on Fri Nov 21, 2014 9:41 am, edited 3 times in total.

Kerensky
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Re: Scenario Obedience to Orders - victory conditions

Post by Kerensky » Fri Nov 21, 2014 9:05 am

Safety precautions.

Scenario is too dangerous given enemy composition (multitudes of Skullhamma tanks and Gargants) to allow extended contact and engagement with player's Act1 core force. So this scenario is loaded with many, separate and totally independent triggers that all force the scenario to end before these top end Ork units have any chance to decimate the player's CORE. Seriously, it's mission 5. No player can be expected to be ready to fight Skullhamma tanks and Gargants at this stage of the game. Scenario 25, there are multiple Skullhamma and Gargants, but that's okay because it's scenario 25.

Working 100% as intended.

zakblood
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Re: Scenario Obedience to Orders - victory conditions

Post by zakblood » Fri Nov 21, 2014 9:17 am

must agree and plays well to boot
if your going to fail any often it will be this one, as again i had to do it a few times and i forgot one what i was doing an move to close and failed it once as well as it says, only the titan, and i forgot and didn't read it, it seems, a chance of mission and good map layout, with new upgrades and units being offered and welcome, as soon you will need them, so planning and level design is good so far, as your given more than enough at times to do what you need, and also time to refit for what is coming, money is good atm as well, as glory rises also...
quoted myself as thats my notes from playing it once so far on easy and quick play with FOW off

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Re: Scenario Obedience to Orders - victory conditions

Post by Kerensky » Fri Nov 21, 2014 9:30 am

Appreciate the vote of confidence. :D

That said, GM build for 1.0 has a little surprise in it we're testing. Heavy duty Ork units like Gargants are at last voluntarily attacking Heavy duty Imperial units like Baneblades and Titans with a change to how the 'predictor' works. 1.0 is gonna be great guys. :D

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Re: Scenario Obedience to Orders - victory conditions

Post by fsx » Fri Nov 21, 2014 9:35 am

Kerensky wrote:Working 100% as intended.
Is it TRUE?

Is it okay, that I win if I lose the Titan?
Is it okay, that I win easy if I ignore the message and capture the VH with my cores?
Is it okay, that I would not win, if I follow the orders (move Titan to VH)?


I have no problem with:
Its okay, if I trigger the strong enemy forces, I could not fight against these units.
Last edited by fsx on Fri Nov 21, 2014 9:48 am, edited 2 times in total.

zakblood
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Re: Scenario Obedience to Orders - victory conditions

Post by zakblood » Fri Nov 21, 2014 9:47 am

Kerensky wrote:Appreciate the vote of confidence. :D

That said, GM build for 1.0 has a little surprise in it we're testing. Heavy duty Ork units like Gargants are at last voluntarily attacking Heavy duty Imperial units like Baneblades and Titans with a change to how the 'predictor' works. 1.0 is gonna be great guys. :D
work good as it is for me, will test it again soon anyway as im doing it all again around diner time or after today, so will so spend more time on each mission next time, so hopefully spot more and note more...

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Re: Scenario Obedience to Orders - victory conditions

Post by caca » Fri Nov 21, 2014 9:48 am

fsx wrote:Sorry, I did not understand. I read no answers for my questions:

Is it okay, that I win if I lose the Titan?
Is it okay, that I win easy if I ignore the message and capture the VH with my cores?
Is it okay, that I would not win, if I follow the orders (move Titan to VH)?
+1

I will add one more question.
It is good that the scenario is not working as it is written in the objectives mission? :D

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Re: Scenario Obedience to Orders - victory conditions

Post by zakblood » Fri Nov 21, 2014 9:57 am

had a look myself as im nosey
map.jpg
map.jpg (246 KiB) Viewed 4189 times
seems it working for me, just need to re test it

3 victory conditions tabs, and 1 for failure

fsx
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Re: Scenario Obedience to Orders - victory conditions

Post by fsx » Fri Nov 21, 2014 10:05 am

Please try:

* Lose the Titan
* follow the orders
* ignore the orders (do the opposite: attack the victory hex only with cores)

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Re: Scenario Obedience to Orders - victory conditions

Post by Kerensky » Fri Nov 21, 2014 10:10 am

It's precisely because of people who ignore instructions and send their CORE to the victory hex that the need for such triggers exist. Because if you ignore the instructions and the AI was unleashed on to you with the arsenal it has been given, it would literally be game over. The AI has more Skullahamma and Gargants than you have total CORE units in this map.

As stated, these triggers are safety precautions, and working 100% as intended.

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Re: Scenario Obedience to Orders - victory conditions

Post by fsx » Fri Nov 21, 2014 10:11 am

the trigger dont work for CORE units

the triggers works ONLY FOR AUX=TITAN units!!
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Re: Scenario Obedience to Orders - victory conditions

Post by fsx » Fri Nov 21, 2014 10:31 am

Also the condition for the message
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Re: Scenario Obedience to Orders - victory conditions

Post by zakblood » Fri Nov 21, 2014 10:44 am

there is only so much you can write in an objective box, it can't go onto 2 pages saying everything or your mums needs to be in x hex before the titan needs to cross y, and as he is the level designer, if he says it's work as intended, then i tend to agree with him, as he set the triggers in the first place, so can't honestly see the problem either, if you want to alter them and make it unplayable, that's fine, but yes the wording and end results aren't to the letter of the law, that's life and it has been explained, time to move on and test maybe something else, and not dwell on one part of a large game...

as it's been noted now :wink:

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Re: Scenario Obedience to Orders - victory conditions

Post by Kerensky » Fri Nov 21, 2014 10:51 am

You tried to break the scenario by disobeying orders (how ironic given the name of the scenario), but one of the safety measures kicked in and it didn't let you break it. Looks perfect to me. :)

I appreciate the vote of confidence zak. ;)
Last edited by Kerensky on Fri Nov 21, 2014 10:58 am, edited 2 times in total.

fsx
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Re: Scenario Obedience to Orders - victory conditions

Post by fsx » Fri Nov 21, 2014 10:57 am

Kerensky wrote:You tried to break the scenario by disobeying orders (how ironic given the name of the scenario), but one of the safety measures kicked in and it didn't let you break it. Looks perfect to me. :)

I appreciate the vote of confidence zak. ;)
I disobeyed the orders and won the Scenario easyly. No huge enemy forces. They only trigger if the Titan is near the VH.
I obeyed the orders and had no chance to win the scenario. Because so much enemies appears. Because the Titan triggers the enemies.
Thats the problem I have with it. It should been opposit!

Or am I wrong??
Last edited by fsx on Fri Nov 21, 2014 11:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Scenario Obedience to Orders - victory conditions

Post by Kerensky » Fri Nov 21, 2014 11:00 am

fsx wrote:I disobeyed the orders and won the scenario.
I obeyed the orders and had no chance to win the scenario.
Thats the problem I have with it.
If you have proof you followed the objectives and had no chance to win, I'd surely like to see it. That's certainly an issue no one reported, and one I never encountered in my multiple playthroughs of this map.

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Re: Scenario Obedience to Orders - victory conditions

Post by fsx » Fri Nov 21, 2014 11:03 am

Kerensky wrote:
fsx wrote:I disobeyed the orders and won the scenario.
I obeyed the orders and had no chance to win the scenario.
Thats the problem I have with it.
If you have proof you followed the objectives and had no chance to win, I'd surely like to see it. That's certainly an issue no one reported, and one I never encountered in my multiple playthroughs of this map.
You have to change the conditions (to trigger units and for the message) from aux to core unit type!
And the 1st victory condition to ork-victory.
Last edited by fsx on Fri Nov 21, 2014 11:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Scenario Obedience to Orders - victory conditions

Post by Kerensky » Fri Nov 21, 2014 11:05 am

No, it absolutely should not have been opposite, because that is the written lore. This is the danger of only looking at editor files, you are missing key story elements and actual gameplay.

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Legio_Metalica
Unable to betray his oath of loyalty to the Emperor, Mannheim climbed aboard his Titan Steel Hammer and led his battle group to their inevitable destruction. The Legion fought long and hard, and Steel Hammer accounted for the destruction of three Ork Gargants before it was severely damaged. Not going down without a fight, Mannheim ordered his war machine to be taken into the centre of the Ork forces before his Titan’s reactor melted down. When the reactor detonated, a half dozen Gargants were taken out, delivering a powerful message to Ghazghkull that the Collegia Titanica would never rest whilst a single Ork lived to taint Armageddon’s soil. But outnumbered three to one, the Legio Metalica was severely outmatched. The Legion was almost completely wiped out and took no further part in the Armageddon campaign. At the end of the campaign Princeps Senioris Mannheim was posthumously awarded the Emperor’s Star for his bravery and loyalty to the Imperium.

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Re: Scenario Obedience to Orders - victory conditions

Post by fsx » Fri Nov 21, 2014 11:07 am

Yes, I only read the Mission objectives.
My fault.

Here is my savegame.
Please, move a core unit to the VH an you win.
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Re: Scenario Obedience to Orders - victory conditions

Post by Kerensky » Fri Nov 21, 2014 11:18 am

fsx wrote:And the 1st victory condition to ork-victory.
Incorrect. This is the root of your misunderstanding I'm afraid. Please do not judge the editor without understanding the complete picture. Mannheim's sacrifice is a pivotal event during the Second War for Armageddon, his death in the face of insurmountable odds is a fulfillment of the lore. If you 'lost' because you followed the lore, then the scenario would truly be wrong no matter how it was designed. The scenario follows the story and the lore to the letter no matter what you the player tries to do to break or change it, working as intended.
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Last edited by Kerensky on Fri Nov 21, 2014 11:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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