RELEASED! Yari & Teppo (the Pike & Shot Japanese mod)

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jomni
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RELEASED! Yari & Teppo (the Pike & Shot Japanese mod)

Post by jomni » Thu Nov 06, 2014 1:06 pm

Yari & Teppō
the Pike & Shot Japanese Mod

Current Version: 0.3 "Hachiman"

Commonly called the “God of War”, Hachiman is a Shinto kami and Buddhist deity worshipped by the Samurai. He is seen as the divine protector of Japan.

Features:
• New 3D models for units, buildings, and defenses;
• Modified random map generation script that represent terrain in East Asia;
• Custom rice paddy tile courtesy of Sarbatha;
• Modified combat scripts to enable new rules;
• Two generic fictional red and blue clans;
• Unit textures for prominent clans in central Japan with historical clan mon (crests) and semi-historical banner design;
• Hand-drawn unit portraits in the style of ukiyo-e woodblock prints;
• Custom squads file and army lists, based on Field of Glory Renaissance: Colonies and Conquest, to depict the various units during the Sengoku Jidai;
• Factions that consider the relationship between the different clans during the century.

Mod only supports Skirmish, Editor, and Mulitplayer. No Historical Scenarios are available in this build.

The mod can be downloaded in-game and will be installed automatically.

The manual can be found here:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/vc00002qu6wt ... NPF6a?dl=0
Please read the manual.

Works on the iPad with the following warnings: (1) it may lag a bit, (2) takes up quite a lot of space, (3) some graphical anomalies.
Last edited by jomni on Fri Jun 26, 2015 2:48 pm, edited 4 times in total.

rbodleyscott
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Re: Yari & Teppo (the Pike & Shot Japanese mod)

Post by rbodleyscott » Thu Nov 06, 2014 1:46 pm

jomni wrote:I'm really inspired by this thread and want to do a Japanese mod. Problem is I have zero experience in modding the engine (and even 3D graphics).
I can do paints and texturing though. So maybe I can recycle the models and just change the skins.

I need some help on where to start.
If you can put up with the yaris looking a bit long, I don't see why you can't use the existing models.

If you take a look at the existing textures, you should be able to work out fairly easily what goes where.

The units can be defined in the Squads file.

See https://sites.google.com/site/battleaca ... llfeatures in the section on Build 0001

Squads.csv is the version actually used by the program, but it lacks formatting, so it is easier to use Squads.xlsx and then save it also in .csv format.
Richard Bodley Scott

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jomni
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Re: Yari & Teppo (the Pike & Shot Japanese mod)

Post by jomni » Fri Nov 07, 2014 12:33 pm

So which modelling software do I use if not 3ds Max?
Blender?

Sigh this project is too daunting for me. Really need some guidance.

rbodleyscott
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Re: Yari & Teppo (the Pike & Shot Japanese mod)

Post by rbodleyscott » Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:37 pm

jomni wrote:So which modelling software do I use if not 3ds Max?
Blender?

I personally know nothing whatsoever about 3D modelling.

However, see the section on Creating 3D Models in:

http://www.slitherinebravo.net/GameWiki ... tub_engine
Richard Bodley Scott

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jomni
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Re: Yari & Teppo (the Pike & Shot Japanese mod)

Post by jomni » Sat Nov 08, 2014 12:42 am

Thanks for the reply.

So far, I will not do 3D stuff in this project. I will just reskin the units and change the stats. It would look great if I can reduce the pike length and change the unit flags into japanese banners.
The units and scenarios of my custom Sengoku Jidai campaign will be based on GMT Games Samurai.

Regarding the stats, should I be doing 100% pike formations? Is there a spear or lance weapon type? Which one do you think is good to simulate Japanese Yari used by cavalry and infantry.

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Re: Yari & Teppo (the Pike & Shot Japanese mod)

Post by LordValentai » Sat Nov 08, 2014 12:55 am

There is a spear weapon, as opposed to pikes you could use. Not sure of its effect in game though.

jomni
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Re: Yari & Teppo (the Pike & Shot Japanese mod)

Post by jomni » Sat Nov 08, 2014 6:38 am

LordValentai wrote:There is a spear weapon, as opposed to pikes you could use. Not sure of its effect in game though.
Thanks for the modding guide. It looks like spreamen (impact foot, melee) would be the one to use for the foot troops while impact horse would be the one to use for cavalry.

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Re: Yari & Teppo (the Pike & Shot Japanese mod)

Post by nikgaukroger » Sat Nov 08, 2014 7:37 am

jomni wrote:
LordValentai wrote:There is a spear weapon, as opposed to pikes you could use. Not sure of its effect in game though.
Thanks for the modding guide. It looks like spreamen (impact foot, melee) would be the one to use for the foot troops while impact horse would be the one to use for cavalry.

I'd have thought for Japanese cavalry Bow, Swordsmen for the early C16th and then Light Lancer, Swordsmen would be the most appropriate.
Nik Gaukroger

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If he does not, why humiliate him?" - Canon Sydney Smith

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Re: Yari & Teppo (the Pike & Shot Japanese mod)

Post by jomni » Sat Nov 08, 2014 2:01 pm

nikgaukroger wrote:
jomni wrote:
LordValentai wrote:There is a spear weapon, as opposed to pikes you could use. Not sure of its effect in game though.
Thanks for the modding guide. It looks like spreamen (impact foot, melee) would be the one to use for the foot troops while impact horse would be the one to use for cavalry.

I'd have thought for Japanese cavalry Bow, Swordsmen for the early C16th and then Light Lancer, Swordsmen would be the most appropriate.
I thought the description for "impact mounted" equipment type is quite suitable since it is impact effect with lances then melee with swords. Do I have to specifically give them light lancer and swords as well? Giving bows is also interesting but GMT Games Samurai does not have bow cavalry troops. But I would think it would be a standard practice for mounted samurai to all carry bow, lance, and sword. :)

Playing around with the screens and the campaign folder.
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Re: Yari & Teppo (the Pike & Shot Japanese mod)

Post by jomni » Sun Nov 09, 2014 5:52 am

I tested changing the flags to japanese type banners and it works for most of the units.
I had a problem with the arquebus which uses pennant flags on the sides. It only uses the top part of the flag.
Also the ottoman archers that I will use for my archer units have invisible flags. Maybe the alpha channel blocked out the wrong spot.

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Re: Yari & Teppo (the Pike & Shot Japanese mod)

Post by nikgaukroger » Sun Nov 09, 2014 1:11 pm

jomni wrote: I thought the description for "impact mounted" equipment type is quite suitable since it is impact effect with lances then melee with swords. Do I have to specifically give them light lancer and swords as well? Giving bows is also interesting but GMT Games Samurai does not have bow cavalry troops. But I would think it would be a standard practice for mounted samurai to all carry bow, lance, and sword. :)

When we created FoG:R (on which Pike and Shot is based) the Impact Mounted capability was for a few troops whom we felt needed an especially hard hitting impact to represent their historical behaviour against their historical opponents - the Polish Hussaria for example - and for whom the other impact capabilities were not quite right. Most troops who used lances of varying types were given either heavy or Light Lance as their impact capability - the mounted samurai cavalry were made Light Lance as this seemed correct.

I mentioned bow, not to be added but as an alternative at the start of the period. As I see it at the start of the C16th samurai cavalry were still using the traditional horse archer tactics and were not charging "lancers" with the yari as the weapon of choice. This changed as the century wore on as they found the traditional tactics to be outmoded due to changes in the importance of foot warfare in Japan.
Nik Gaukroger

"Never ask a man if he comes from Yorkshire. If he does, he will tell you.
If he does not, why humiliate him?" - Canon Sydney Smith

nikgaukroger@blueyonder.co.uk

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Re: Yari & Teppo (the Pike & Shot Japanese mod)

Post by rbodleyscott » Sun Nov 09, 2014 1:27 pm

jomni wrote:I had a problem with the arquebus which uses pennant flags on the sides. It only uses the top part of the flag.
You could use the Musketeers or Musketeers_Small model instead of the Arquebusiers model. There is, of course, nothing to stop you using the musketeers models and giving the units arquebus in the squads file.
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Re: Yari & Teppo (the Pike & Shot Japanese mod)

Post by rbodleyscott » Sun Nov 09, 2014 1:29 pm

nikgaukroger wrote:
jomni wrote: I thought the description for "impact mounted" equipment type is quite suitable since it is impact effect with lances then melee with swords. Do I have to specifically give them light lancer and swords as well? Giving bows is also interesting but GMT Games Samurai does not have bow cavalry troops. But I would think it would be a standard practice for mounted samurai to all carry bow, lance, and sword. :)

When we created FoG:R (on which Pike and Shot is based) the Impact Mounted capability was for a few troops whom we felt needed an especially hard hitting impact to represent their historical behaviour against their historical opponents - the Polish Hussaria for example - and for whom the other impact capabilities were not quite right. Most troops who used lances of varying types were given either heavy or Light Lance as their impact capability - the mounted samurai cavalry were made Light Lance as this seemed correct.

I mentioned bow, not to be added but as an alternative at the start of the period. As I see it at the start of the C16th samurai cavalry were still using the traditional horse archer tactics and were not charging "lancers" with the yari as the weapon of choice. This changed as the century wore on as they found the traditional tactics to be outmoded due to changes in the importance of foot warfare in Japan.
Further to this, beware of arming troops with every weapon under the sun. Spearmen and Pikemen, for example, should never be given Swordsmen capability, because although they carried swords they were not skilled with them, and whatever benefit they might gain from their sword is already included in their spearmen/pikemen capability. Likewise I would not give Teppo-armed ashigaru swordsmen capability.
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Re: Yari & Teppo (the Pike & Shot Japanese mod)

Post by Vichyssoise » Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:19 pm

Fantastic work so far, jomni. It looks very promising.
I'm looking forward to seeing how the mod evolves. Thank you for the updates and for your hard work.

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Re: Yari & Teppo (the Pike & Shot Japanese mod)

Post by jomni » Mon Nov 10, 2014 10:05 pm

Unit stats question. In my current build the cavalry aren't effective in attacking spearmen head-on. They are only good at flanks.

Spearmen: Heavy Foot, 100% Spear, 100% Armor
Cavalry: Cavalry, 100% Light Lancers, 100% Swords, 100% Armor

Are the results appropriate for Japanese warfare? I would think a frontal assault by cavalry, more so the most elite, would still have an effect.
How do I tweak this? Should I make the Ashigaru foot units medium foot instead? Actually not sure if it matters or is just a filtering tool.

Also it seems that spearmen cannot charge cavalry. They will wait for the cavalry to charge them but the AI will just stand there because it also does not want a frontal assault.
I saw a cavalry and a sparmen unit just stare at each other for several turns.

Check out the screenshot below.
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Re: Yari & Teppo (the Pike & Shot Japanese mod)

Post by TheGrayMouser » Mon Nov 10, 2014 10:22 pm

Perhaps your armour values are too high? for mounted 100% armour= plate armoured men with barded horses... for foot it would be plate armoured dimounted knights!

I have no idea how effective Japanese cavalry was vs ashiguri, however they certainly went western gendarmes, but then again the ash. wernt pikeman either...


Here is a link to the Ren Table top game forum discussing in great detail Japanese warfare and the author then translates this to FOGRen TT equivalents
this could be a good starting point! (keep in mind that the lists you there aren't lilky the offical tt lists)

http://slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=85&t=17633

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Re: Yari & Teppo (the Pike & Shot Japanese mod)

Post by jomni » Mon Nov 10, 2014 10:35 pm

TheGrayMouser wrote:Perhaps your armour values are too high? for mounted 100% armour= plate armoured men with barded horses... for foot it would be plate armoured dimounted knights!

I have no idea how effective Japanese cavalry was vs ashiguri, however they certainly went western gendarmes, but then again the ash. wernt pikeman either...


Here is a link to the Ren Table top game forum discussing in great detail Japanese warfare and the author then translates this to FOGRen TT equivalents
this could be a good starting point! (keep in mind that the lists you there aren't lilky the offical tt lists)

http://slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=85&t=17633
Thanks for the link. I'm not authorized to go to that link.
Also their armor aren't actually made of metal.

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Re: Yari & Teppo (the Pike & Shot Japanese mod)

Post by TheGrayMouser » Mon Nov 10, 2014 10:50 pm

jomni wrote:
TheGrayMouser wrote:Perhaps your armour values are too high? for mounted 100% armour= plate armoured men with barded horses... for foot it would be plate armoured dimounted knights!

I have no idea how effective Japanese cavalry was vs ashiguri, however they certainly went western gendarmes, but then again the ash. wernt pikeman either...


Here is a link to the Ren Table top game forum discussing in great detail Japanese warfare and the author then translates this to FOGRen TT equivalents
this could be a good starting point! (keep in mind that the lists you there aren't lilky the offical tt lists)

http://slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=85&t=17633
Thanks for the link. I'm not authorized to go to that link.
Also their armor aren't actually made of metal.
oops sorry, I must have access from beta testing other games...

Hmm I don't own the TT book covering these lists but some guesses:

ashiguri: probobly unarmoured or armoured (P&S terms 0 or 33% armour), average medium foot with spears (being mediums they will be more vulnerable to cavalry)
Mounted: Earlier periods armoured/ bow and swords, later no bows but light lance/sword, average or superior
foot samurie: armoured, maybe some heavily armoured? (33 or 66%) maybe impact foot/sword coded as warriors? superior
you will need seperate archer and later firearms units, nt sure if medium or light foot would be the best choice.


edit:
Ahh, I see from your screen shot you likely are referring to armour values from the squads xls, not the in game displayed values ( which are the xls # divided by three)
So, the values I quoted above would be the in game displayed values, just multiply x3 for what would go into the xls/csv file.

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Re: Yari & Teppo (the Pike & Shot Japanese mod)

Post by rbodleyscott » Mon Nov 10, 2014 11:34 pm

jomni wrote:Are the results appropriate for Japanese warfare? I would think a frontal assault by cavalry, more so the most elite, would still have an effect.
When Nik was doing the FOGR TT Japanese list, we toyed with mixed units of yari and teppo men. We thought that that might actually be quite appropriate but thought players might balk at them being too similar in representation to western pike and shot.

If you did want to represent them thus, they might be 50% spear, 50% arquebus. If so, unlike pike and shot, only the spearmen would get POA vs mounted troops. So instead of being at a POA of +100 vs Cavalry they would be at a POA of +50.
Given that the Cavalry will usually be of a higher Quality class (I think ashigaru should be Average not Superior), this would give such units only a relatively small advantage vs cavalry, which the cavalry might fairly frequently beat (although they would lose more often than they would win, but probably not by a huge margin).
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Re: Yari & Teppo (the Pike & Shot Japanese mod)

Post by jomni » Mon Nov 10, 2014 11:37 pm

Thanks for the suggestion. My ranged units, rifle and bows are light units and I think they're alright that way.

I will make my spearmen medium infantry to test out and maybe lower the armor value. My order of battle will be based on GMT Games Samurai so they aren't too diverse (no heavy foot with pure sword units, no missile cavalry). But there is a lot of quality levels in between. The foot troops ended up as superior because they are superior in the OOB reference above. Some commanders have lesser quality infantry.

GMT's Quality rating ranges from 4 to 8 and I had to assign quality and Morale based on the distribution of units (bell-curve). So there infantry that will end up as superior.

Another interesting notion is that in GMT Samurai, the horse units are not pure horse. They actually have spear foot troops accompanying them. I don't want to replicate this one. :roll:

In another note, maybe a mixed sword and spear unit will also work (60% spear, 40% sword) since it is generic.

As for mixed spear and arquebus, I though of it too but there aren't much riflemen to spread among the spear units in most battles based on the OOB source indicated above.
Last edited by jomni on Mon Nov 10, 2014 11:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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