Exceed range 4 ? Possible ?

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Joubarbe
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Exceed range 4 ? Possible ?

Post by Joubarbe » Wed Dec 03, 2014 9:29 pm

Hey,

Is it possible to exceed a weapon range of 4 ? It doesn't seem so, because even when putting very high values, it can't go beyond :(
That would be very unfortunate !

(increasing the spotting to higher values doesn't help either)

EDIT : the only way to make it work, AFAIK, is to put the trait Indirect Fire when the range is above 4.

Aekar
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Re: Exceed range 4 ? Possible ?

Post by Aekar » Wed Dec 03, 2014 11:38 pm

In the game some units have range 3-7 already, so you mean that the minimal range can't go beyond 4?

Joubarbe
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Re: Exceed range 4 ? Possible ?

Post by Joubarbe » Wed Dec 03, 2014 11:45 pm

I'm pretty sure the units you are talking about have the weapon trait Indirect Fire. Try it yourself, put 12 in a basic infantry (Scout for instance), and you'll see that's impossible to shoot at more than 4 hexes.
Or I missed something :)

Kerensky
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Re: Exceed range 4 ? Possible ?

Post by Kerensky » Thu Dec 04, 2014 12:13 am

There is a code limitation that prevents direct fire weapons from exceeding range 4. This was part of the reason we had to take the Volcano Cannon back down from 5 range to 4.

Joubarbe
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Re: Exceed range 4 ? Possible ?

Post by Joubarbe » Thu Dec 04, 2014 12:17 am

Thanks for the answer Kerensky. Well, I guess I'm gonna give some Indirect Fire traits to my units :)

orci
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Re: Exceed range 4 ? Possible ?

Post by orci » Thu Dec 04, 2014 6:00 am

Kerensky wrote:There is a code limitation that prevents direct fire weapons from exceeding range 4.
But why?
Why not leave it open to the unit values?

TheGrayMouser
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Re: Exceed range 4 ? Possible ?

Post by TheGrayMouser » Thu Dec 04, 2014 1:23 pm

orci wrote:
Kerensky wrote:There is a code limitation that prevents direct fire weapons from exceeding range 4.
But why?
Why not leave it open to the unit values?
Only Kerensky will know but my guess is it helps control the AI behavior, also LOS issues might be an issue....

Kerensky
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Re: Exceed range 4 ? Possible ?

Post by Kerensky » Thu Dec 04, 2014 7:18 pm

Actually... no this is not something I know, it was only something I've been told. Sorry! :oops:

Galdred
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Re: Exceed range 4 ? Possible ?

Post by Galdred » Sat Dec 06, 2014 1:12 am

I would really like to have an option(or a value to edit) to change it to a longer range(both for max spotting range and firing range). I find the value of 4 too limiting, and I would like to mod longer ranges(double of the current ones) in the game to see how it works.

Horst
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Re: Exceed range 4 ? Possible ?

Post by Horst » Sat Dec 06, 2014 9:32 am

And I would really, really love to have the possibility to set whatever df-range you like too. This is something that doesn’t affect the vanilla game at all as long as a modder doesn’t change there anything. I did some tests with artillery ranges too, and as long as you don't set them all to 100+, there shouldn't be a problem on vanilla maps.
It’s basically the same like increasing the movement rate of units to values above 14 which slowly bogs down the performance too. That’s an old issue of the PzC engine, especially with AI paratrooper transport plane drops after movement 20.

Joubarbe
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Re: Exceed range 4 ? Possible ?

Post by Joubarbe » Sat Dec 06, 2014 11:38 am

As I said, you can add an Indirect Fire to be able to fire at more than 4 hexes. AFAIK, that's the only way to bypass the limit.

Horst
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Re: Exceed range 4 ? Possible ?

Post by Horst » Sat Dec 06, 2014 5:53 pm

Yes, but indirect fire ignores all LOS and most importantly the exchange in fire. Together with a true LOS system, you could have raised the spotting values too a bit. I planned to convert the common 72” tank cannon ranges to 6 hexes but mission failed. Oh well, range 4 it is now.

Galdred
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Re: Exceed range 4 ? Possible ?

Post by Galdred » Fri Dec 12, 2014 11:44 am

Kerensky wrote:Actually... no this is not something I know, it was only something I've been told. Sorry! :oops:
I thought Rudankort had said during the beta that it was only an arbitrary value and it could be changed. Can you check with him, please?
It would open new options (Shadowswords being able to fire from long range), and make many more modd ideas possible.

Galdred
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Re: Exceed range 4 ? Possible ?

Post by Galdred » Fri Dec 12, 2014 11:44 am

Double post
Last edited by Galdred on Sun Dec 14, 2014 9:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

Aekar
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Re: Exceed range 4 ? Possible ?

Post by Aekar » Sun Dec 14, 2014 8:45 am

I second that request.

The problem we have with range 4 is that with units already moving 3-6 squares, having a range 4- for direct fire has a considerable impact.
Game design wise, that limits the scope to units that fire as far as they can move, or units that move even further that they can fire.
This is why I am speaking of considerable impact.

The only way to restore an idea of "far range" in direct fire, would be to have all units moving and seeing 1 square only, which doesn't sound very interesting.

About the fix of using artillery fire:
It makes that "far range" far exceeding in power, like a Click of Death experience; but mostly, it would make the system look broken, with direct fire long-range machine guns firing in artillery mode ..
Did you ever imagine bullets falling from the air?
Yes, that's the ridiculous situation I am referring to :)
I can't make a mod sporting such a situation, I don't think the players would understand that viewpoint.


I can pretty much understand that at some point, firing far is like an artillery shot! ;)
The problem is that with the current movement allowance and range limitation, the "artillery fire mode" balance cursor is too close when it starts at 5 range.


I would understand that doesn't fall into the priority list (there are even more "game breaking bugs" for modding currently), but I would love to be assured that it is on the list somewhere :p
And if it is quick to fix, then we would be even more happy :)

Kolaris
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Re: Exceed range 4 ? Possible ?

Post by Kolaris » Fri Jan 10, 2020 6:03 pm

Well this is extremely disappointing. Really would have liked the Community Edition to tackle this issue. 12" per 1 hex feels very natural, but then half the heavy weapons get condensed down to the same range due to a bizarre limitation.

deranzo
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Re: Exceed range 4 ? Possible ?

Post by deranzo » Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:06 pm

Kolaris wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 6:03 pm
Well this is extremely disappointing. Really would have liked the Community Edition to tackle this issue. 12" per 1 hex feels very natural, but then half the heavy weapons get condensed down to the same range due to a bizarre limitation.
Please write your requests in this topic: viewtopic.php?f=235&t=79544
Unless it is extensive UI or game mechanic change, I will get it done if several people want the same change.
it is a good day to die

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