First turn tactics, whatcha got...

It is 1965 and the US ground war in Vietnam is in full swing. As a US Army commander, wage a counter-insurgency (COIN) war to secure the Ia Drang valley, on the border with Cambodia.
Dorb
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First turn tactics, whatcha got...

Post by Dorb » Mon Mar 23, 2015 11:37 pm

Just like to hear about folks first couple of turns. What units you buy first, how much PP do you spend at first or do you save, do you make a bee line to make your Firebase or do you work on road network to the front. etc,etc...
I know a lot depends on the lay of the land. Myself still cutting my teeth on the regular level (3-0) but have found I tend to start with another engineer right out of the gate and if a lot of open space and a M48 for escort while the Huey's hit the nearest villages. Always torn between when I place my first Forward Base to pull my starting Ranger back to train or bring in another, really depends on my kills/contacts I have up to that point.

Love this game and would like to hear how others start it off.

jack54
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Re: First turn tactics, whatcha got...

Post by jack54 » Tue Mar 24, 2015 1:02 am

I buy a Cobra and a Chinook immediately.... the 3 Hueys take the infantry to the 3 closest villages. I keep the GB' s scouting for the engineers (because losing them early is a definite setback) while looking for a good place for the FB. I set the fire base within 1 turn range for the Huey' s back to the main base.

Later I'll train ARVN if I'm short infantry...but mostly use GB units for scouting. I did have 4 ARVN in one game.
Keep in mind I don't win very often on Veteran.

Every Single Soldier
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Re: First turn tactics, whatcha got...

Post by Every Single Soldier » Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:33 am

There are three (known) strategies to win, all different. Try different things and you will don figure one or all or find a new way, my only advice would be (after watching every YouTube video :shock: ) is be more aggressive earlier on :)

ErissN6
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Re: First turn tactics, whatcha got...

Post by ErissN6 » Tue Mar 24, 2015 4:21 pm

I build first a FoB!:
with its GB raising 2 ARVN, it will highlight the main logistic helo road between the two big bases.

Hanal
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Re: First turn tactics, whatcha got...

Post by Hanal » Thu Mar 26, 2015 11:50 am

My main objective in the early stages of the campaign is to purchase a number of infantry and Hueys and occupy as many villages as possible. I keep these infantry in the villages the entire game, gathering intel and keeping the VC out. I was finding that in my earlier games, using a few infantry units to fly about the map, putting out fires, was not working and once I used infantry as an occupying force in each village, it made for more manageable play. The bonus is that I can use the GB for ARVN buildup since the villages offer more opportunity for intel, than a more expensive GB unit can...if my infantry get hit while in the village and suffer wounds, I'll swap them out with ARVN and once they are fit, put them back in the field rather than return to the village...

Every Single Soldier
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Re: First turn tactics, whatcha got...

Post by Every Single Soldier » Thu Mar 26, 2015 11:58 am

A very common incorrect assumption about infantry in villages is often made. If you station infantry in a village it doesn't prevent the VC from infiltrating that village, you have to intercept them before they reach the village. The only benefit you would have is that if the path to the village from the HCM trail is of certain number of hexes away then results in the VC stopping 1 hex away before entering.... :shock:

If this was not the case, the game would be way too simplistic as all the player would do is occupy every village with an infantry unit and the game would be over, it is for this same reasoning that ambushes cannot be placed in or close to villages.

Also you would have to exit and re-enter the village when the fire starts to burn again in order to get the Intel.

Hope this helps...

Hanal
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Re: First turn tactics, whatcha got...

Post by Hanal » Thu Mar 26, 2015 12:15 pm

That is interesting...I just do a landmine sweep with the infantry in the village when a fire restarts and that seems to give me intel as well...as to your occupying the villages...I obviously cannot counter the thoughts of the game designer about this but in my current game (veteran) I am on turn 24 with 8 out of 10 villages occupied and I have a H&M level of 65. My previous wins were in normal using this strategy. It is true that there is still a way to go here so I will let you know the final score once I occupy the last two villages...I guess once I have a larger sample size of veteran games using this approach, I will see the flaws and am currently over optimistic with this tactic...

Every Single Soldier
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Re: First turn tactics, whatcha got...

Post by Every Single Soldier » Thu Mar 26, 2015 12:29 pm

You raise a very important point and possibly a design fault :shock:

It is exactly what we are trying to avoid as a possible strategy, but yet it seems to work, will run some tests .... :|

Hanal
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Re: First turn tactics, whatcha got...

Post by Hanal » Thu Mar 26, 2015 12:55 pm

Perhaps it will help if keep updating with some specifics..I am now on turn 28 and my H&M has risen to 69. I have only one Cobra, and one M48 as extra units so I have been achieving this without too much hardware..the activity report at turn 28 is 2 VC and 1 NVA 0 bases...casualties are 8 US 12 VC 5 NVA..current PP 2792

Every Single Soldier
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Re: First turn tactics, whatcha got...

Post by Every Single Soldier » Thu Mar 26, 2015 1:10 pm

Thanks, hey running a few tests

Hanal
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Re: First turn tactics, whatcha got...

Post by Hanal » Thu Mar 26, 2015 7:10 pm

In conclusion, I finished with a 70 H&M score Decisive Victory and I do believe it could have been much higher if I adopted a "turtling" strategy once I held 8 villages. I found however that that was boring to just sit there and pick off the few VC that appeared so I went after villages #9 and #10. Occupying #9 resulted in the lose of a Huey and ARVN unit and time ran out before I could occupy #10 where I lost an Infantry unit and mecha transport. Each village had a base nearby which I knocked out, so I wondered if the creation of bases is tied into the nearby villages loyalty, since no other bases appeared in the areas where I had troops occupying the other 8. I also lost a couple of units for lack of supply which was just poor management on my part..

hope this helps..

Every Single Soldier
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Re: First turn tactics, whatcha got...

Post by Every Single Soldier » Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:12 pm

Helps a great deal thanks, have some modifications to make. Thanks for the feedback :)

Hanal
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Re: First turn tactics, whatcha got...

Post by Hanal » Thu Mar 26, 2015 9:01 pm

You are most welcome... One further note: I wonder if anyone has had the main base attacked? I never felt the need to defend it as it has never been attacked in my games.Perhaps it has just been luck so far or it is representing such a large installation that such VC attacks are not feasible, but if there were occasions where the main base was attacked (which should result in an auto lose if destroyed and dramatic hit to PP & H&M for damage)then bold strategies of village hopping would be limited if there were more threats in the rear lines...

delor
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Re: First turn tactics, whatcha got...

Post by delor » Thu Mar 26, 2015 9:56 pm

One mechanics question, one strategy question, if anyone knows...

Mechanics: Is it possible to gather intel on the first turn, or will that always fail because there's no units out there to gather intel on?

Strategy: Assuming you can't gather intel on the first turn, does it make sense to hold off until the second? I guess you potentially slow your H&M gain by one turn by doing this, but in exchange might get more early spotting. Thoughts?

Every Single Soldier
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Re: First turn tactics, whatcha got...

Post by Every Single Soldier » Fri Mar 27, 2015 5:09 am

Firstly, in V65 the main base doesn't get attached, something we did consider but decided against it as if it got destroyed the game would effectively be over, could allow attacks on the base effecting PP but not sure if that will add any major dynamic to the game play ?

There is no Intel to gather on the first turn as no enemy units actually exist, but by visiting the village on the first turn does increase the HM....

Varying views on what to do, but the trade off is you could effectively have three village visits in the first turn , taking HM to 51 , its a call you would need to make... :)

Dorb
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Re: First turn tactics, whatcha got...

Post by Dorb » Fri Mar 27, 2015 2:50 pm

You can tell who reads the manual and who jumps right in to this awesome game.(It clearly states the HQ does not get attacked page 14-15.) :wink: - Me I'm old school from the days when they shipped with big manuals, I have to read first then jump in. :D

Every Single Soldier
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Re: First turn tactics, whatcha got...

Post by Every Single Soldier » Fri Mar 27, 2015 2:56 pm

You and me both, but we are in the minority :shock:

Hanal
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Re: First turn tactics, whatcha got...

Post by Hanal » Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:30 pm

Well I have some good news. My second Veterans game using the village hopping strategy is having an opposite result. I am on turn 18 and have 6 of the villages occupied, but this time 2 hidden bases have appeared, where in game 1 they did not show up until turn 42. This has hindered my plans as I am already at -943 PP. I need to find those bases before it is too late. Perhaps game 1 was a perfect storm where terrain and village placement contributed to the victory?

Every Single Soldier
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Re: First turn tactics, whatcha got...

Post by Every Single Soldier » Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:36 pm

That is good news , but I have played three games and won two so am making some sneaky tweek to AI to prevent this strategy , don't ask..... :shock:

Dorb
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Re: First turn tactics, whatcha got...

Post by Dorb » Fri Mar 27, 2015 5:37 pm

Now that's what I call adaptive AI. :)

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