Caracole III - Rules & Discussion

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pantherboy
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Caracole III - Rules & Discussion

Post by pantherboy » Fri Jul 03, 2015 5:28 am

Caracole III

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“The Lord God is my armor!” --- Gustavus Adolphus, refusing the steel body armor offered by his aides at the Battle of Lützen (where he was killed), 16th Sept. 1632.

Welcome to Caracole III. This time round John (aka flatsix518) will be taking a break from running things and has graciously allowed me to take the reins for this third chapter. He has given me leave to try out some of my more radical ideas which I hope will find a receptive audience. My intent is to provide a more balanced series of matches, not necessarily by having two even armies, through a modified scoring system that will hopefully address mismatches and thus open up the field to seeing a more varied pairing of armies. Also I’m hoping to have Caracole III run quicker by having smaller initial groupings which advance into slightly larger ones and throughout have all match pairings pre-orchestrated. I look forward to gaming with as many of you as possible.

Cheers,

Steve (aka pantherboy)

1. Overview

Caracole III will be played over two rounds with 24 players. In the first round players will be allocated to groups of 4 players wherein they will play the other group members in mirror matches. You will play each opponent using a different period. Round one will include a TYW, ECW and an Italian Wars pairing. Once scoring is completed the top player from each group will enter a second round group of 6 players. The 6 runners up will form a second group and so on for the other placings creating four groups of 6 players. Scoring for the second round will be independent of the first round and final standings will determine overall ladder position as per Caracole II.

2. Round One

Players will be allocated randomly to six different groups though Caracole II Pod “A” players will be separated as will Pod “B” and “C”. This will ensure a more varied range of opponents allowing players to earn experience fighting veteran players. There will be some overlap with two players being in the same pod again but in such cases it will be randomly determined.

Round one will involve fighting three mirror matches, totaling six games, using a pairing from each period. They are;

1. Italian Wars: French 1550-1559 vs Spanish-Imperial 1543-1559
2. Thirty Years War: German Catholic 1632-1638 vs Swedish 1630-1634
3. English Civil War: Parliamentarian 1642-1643 vs Royalist 1642-1643

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3. Round Two

In round two players will progress into one of four six-player groups based on their ranking in the first round. The highest scorer of each group will enter Group “A”, the second highest scorer Group “B” and so forth. Players will then fight 5 mirror matches, totaling 10 games, using pairings from all periods. They are;

1. Italian Wars: (to be decided)
2. Tercio to Salvo: (to be decided)
3. Thirty Years War: (to be decided)
4. Thirty Years War: (to be decided)
5. English Civil War: (to be decided)

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NB: Tercio to Salvo may be changed for those without the module.

At the conclusion of round two final standings will be tallied and players will be ranked from 1st to 24th based upon their score in the second round ala Caracole II.

4. Battle Parameters & Setting Up Games

Players will be free to set up the challenges in any order as they wish. The only requirement will be that everyone needs to have each match set up by the end of the second week. You are not required to be playing them but they do need to be created. From my experience once matches have been set up players are more likely to get them completed in time even if it is doing a turn every few days.

Matches are to be set up using the following parameters. Please note that terrain will default to agricultural unless both players desire pot luck. Before creating a challenge please check the player’s terrain preference as per their request when signing up.

Change Campaign… Select appropriate campaign
Scenario Type: Open Battle
Force Size: Medium
Map Size: Medium
Terrain Type: <Agricultural or Pot Luck if both players agree>
First Player Side: <Any>
Army List (xxx): <As per pairing>
Army List (xxx): < As per pairing>
Filter Army List: On
Force Selection: Player

Note – Advance settings must be left on default!
Note – Include a password
Note – It can be helpful to include a comment like “Challenge for Player A”

5. Scoring

Scoring will be based upon the break level and by how close the battle was. The narrower the margin between players will result in scores rather close while an early decisive win will be wider.

Win: 6.0 + (enemy break% - winner break %)/10
Draw or Loss: (enemy break %)/10

Example:
pantherboy (German Catholic 1632-1638) (61%) vs flatsix518 (Swedish 1630-1634) (48%)
pantherboy (48%)/10 = 4.8pts
flatsix518 6.0 + (61% - 48%)/10 = 7.3pts

NB: Any battle that ends due to all the turns elapsing and with a player ahead in break % will not be considered a win and as such will only score the opponents break level divided by 10.

6. Timeline

Round One will commence on July 1st (or 3 days after recruitment is full if earlier) and finish on July 31st.
Round Two will commence on August 1st (or 3 days after all matches are completed if earlier) and finish on September 14th.

Games must be completed within the stated ranges though extensions may be granted on a case by case basis if they do not significantly interfere with the tournament.

7. Reporting Games

Reporting results will be incumbent on the player who won the battle. They will be required to log into the Slitherine Forum and post the result publically on the appropriate thread (e.g. Caracole III Results). Results posted should be reported in the following format;

Pod (A/B/C etc.)
Player ID (army) (Army Break %) score vs Player ID (army) (Army Break %) score

Example:
Pod A
pantherboy (German Catholic 1632-1638) (61%) 4.8pts vs flatsix518 (Swedish 1630-1634) (48%) 7.3pts

8. Absent Players & Neglected Turns

For ease of management if you wish to quit the Caracole or won’t have time to finish your matches then please notify me. An explanation isn’t required. The purpose is to allow me to either delete you from the tournament (if games haven’t been played) or issue forfeits on your behalf rather than you sitting there as a ghost player with your opponents trying to contact you.

For players who encounter an unresponsive opponent then don’t be too concerned as it is obvious who they are by looking at the results table and at the end of the Caracole I’ll simply award the game to the more active player unless they didn’t complete any games in which case I’ll remove their name from the list.

9. Recruitment

Recruitment will be limited to the first 24 players interested. If all 24 slots fill up quickly then the commencement date will be moved forward. To sign up please post your intent below with your preference for agricultural or pot luck terrain and whether you own Tercio to Salvo. A reserve list will be started if interest goes beyond 24.

Players so far:
1. pantherboy (Agricultural) Tercio to Salvo
2. rbodleyscott (Agricultural) Tercio to Salvo
3. w_michael (Agricultural) Tercio to Salvo
4. cavehobbit (Agricultural) Tercio to Salvo
5. deadtorius (Agricultural) Tercio to Salvo
6. TheGrayMouser (Agricultural) Tercio to Salvo
7. awesum4 (Agricultural) Tercio to Salvo
8. Aryaman (Agricultural) Tercio to Salvo
9. Tiopepe (Agricultural) Tercio to Salvo
10. batesmotel (Pot Luck) Tercio to Salvo
11. shawkhan2 (Agricultural) Tercio to Salvo
12. Doyley50 (Agricultural) Tercio to Salvo
13. keyth (Agricultural) Tercio to Salvo
14. Hutze (Pot Luck) Tercio to Salvo
15. cromlechi (Pot Luck) Tercio to Salvo
16. iandavidsmith (Agricultural) Tercio to Salvo
17. Hrothgar (Agricultural) Tercio to Salvo
18. Praeter (Pot Luck) doesn't own Tercio to Salvo
19. majandro (Pot Luck) Tercio to Salvo
20. youngr (Pot Luck) Tercio to Salvo
21. Ulysisgrunt (Pot Luck) Tercio to Salvo
Last edited by pantherboy on Sat Jul 04, 2015 11:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Caracole III - Rules & Discussion

Post by pantherboy » Sat Jul 04, 2015 1:48 pm

I'm satisfied with the setup of the forum for the moment so play may commence. I'm open to any suggestions regarding steamlining any facet of the presentation to make things easier for everyone and to enhance the enjoyability of the tournament. As a side note I have decided to place myself as a reserve rather than create a group of 5 players. This is due to my desire to have everyone play under identical conditions. It is quite common for someone to drop out at some point so if this does happen then I'll step in otherwise I'm happy to organise this time round.

Let the games begin!

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Re: Caracole III - Rules & Discussion

Post by rbodleyscott » Sat Jul 04, 2015 9:10 pm

No doubt this is clearly stated somewhere, but I am too knackered/thick/old/lazy to find it.

Do we set up the the challenges for the games going horizontally from our name, or vertically from our name?
Richard Bodley Scott

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cromlechi
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Re: Caracole III - Rules & Discussion

Post by cromlechi » Sat Jul 04, 2015 10:23 pm

Sorry, I'm confused too. It says something about being assigned to a pod? Not sure what pod I'm in.

Rgds

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Re: Caracole III - Rules & Discussion

Post by cromlechi » Sat Jul 04, 2015 10:25 pm

Sorry ignore that, I can see the other thread now. I'm group B

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Re: Caracole III - Rules & Discussion

Post by pantherboy » Sat Jul 04, 2015 11:32 pm

rbodleyscott wrote:No doubt this is clearly stated somewhere, but I am too knackered/thick/old/lazy to find it.

Do we set up the the challenges for the games going horizontally from our name, or vertically from our name?
I didn't officially determine who must setup the individual games. Rather I left it open to either party as per the previous Caracoles hoping the more motivated players will get the ball rolling. If players would like we can make it a requirement to setup the games going horizontally for each player and then everyone will have the same number of games to organise.

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Re: Caracole III - Rules & Discussion

Post by cromlechi » Sun Jul 05, 2015 7:12 am

All my challenges have been issued.

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Re: Caracole III - Rules & Discussion

Post by rbodleyscott » Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:26 pm

pantherboy wrote:
rbodleyscott wrote:No doubt this is clearly stated somewhere, but I am too knackered/thick/old/lazy to find it.

Do we set up the the challenges for the games going horizontally from our name, or vertically from our name?
I didn't officially determine who must setup the individual games. Rather I left it open to either party as per the previous Caracoles hoping the more motivated players will get the ball rolling. If players would like we can make it a requirement to setup the games going horizontally for each player and then everyone will have the same number of games to organise.
Seems sensible to me.
Richard Bodley Scott

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Re: Caracole III - Rules & Discussion

Post by Tiopepe » Sun Jul 05, 2015 2:39 pm

Pantherboy, could it be possible to select "automatic force selection" besides "player selection" if both players are agree??

Thanks you!

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Re: Caracole III - Rules & Discussion

Post by pantherboy » Sun Jul 05, 2015 4:12 pm

Tiopepe wrote:Pantherboy, could it be possible to select "automatic force selection" besides "player selection" if both players are agree??

Thanks you!
If both players agree then I'm fine with it.

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Re: Caracole III - Rules & Discussion

Post by w_michael » Mon Jul 06, 2015 6:44 pm

Win: 6.0 + (enemy break% - winner break %)/10
Draw or Loss: (enemy break %)/10
I like this. It scores a draw like a loss, thus encouraging players to be aggressive and complete the game even if the situation is daunting.
William Michael, Pike & Shot Campaigns & Field of Glory II enthusiast

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Re: Caracole III - Rules & Discussion

Post by pantherboy » Tue Aug 04, 2015 11:33 am

PLEASE COMPLETE YOUR GAMES BY AUGUST 7th

Time has come to start preparing for the second phase. I'm granting an extension to all players to finish by the end of the week but if it isn't possible then games lacking any results will be scored zero for each player. The following matches are still outstanding;

Group B
cromlechi (Parliamentarian) vs hutze (Royalist)
cromlechi (Royalist) vs hutze (Parliamentarian)

Group D
iandavidsmith (German Catholic) vs Aryaman (Swedish)
iandavidsmith (French) vs deadtorius (Spanish-Imperial)
iandavidsmith (Parliamentarian) vs keyth (Royalist)
deadtorius (French) vs iandavidsmith (Spanish-Imperial)
deadtorius (Parliamentarian) vs Aryaman (Royalist)
keyth (Parliamentarian) vs iandavidsmith (Royalist)
keyth (German Catholic) vs deadtorius (Swedish)

Group E
Ulysisgrunt (French) vs Praeter (Spanish-Imperial)
Praeter (French) vs Ulysisgrunt (Spanish-Imperial)
majandro (German Catholic) vs Praeter (Swedish)
Praeter (German Catholic) vs majandro (Swedish)

Cheers,

Steve

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Re: Caracole III - Rules & Discussion

Post by pantherboy » Fri Aug 07, 2015 3:09 am

PLEASE COMPLETE YOUR GAMES BY AUGUST 7th

Still outstanding;

Group B
cromlechi (Parliamentarian) vs hutze (Royalist)
cromlechi (Royalist) vs hutze (Parliamentarian)

Group D
iandavidsmith (French) vs deadtorius (Spanish-Imperial)
iandavidsmith (Parliamentarian) vs keyth (Royalist)
deadtorius (French) vs iandavidsmith (Spanish-Imperial)
deadtorius (Parliamentarian) vs Aryaman (Royalist)
keyth (German Catholic) vs deadtorius (Swedish)

Group E
Praeter (German Catholic) vs majandro (Swedish)

Cheers,

Steve

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Re: Caracole III - Rules & Discussion

Post by pantherboy » Sat Aug 15, 2015 12:41 pm

Round Two About To Commence

I hope everyone has enjoyed playing the first round. Below I have tentatively setup the second round groupings. Due to one player dropping out I have decided to fill their spot myself claiming a Group A slot based upon winning the previous two Caracoles. Because the number of players is 20 I have been forced to enlarge one group to 8 while the other two will remain at 6 as per the tournament rules. I have selected Group A to have 8 as it includes the most active players and would mean providing two first round runner ups with entry (awesum4 & youngr) who performed extremely well (youngr being bested by rbodleyscott by a mere 0.1 points!). I have also listed the armies that will be paired up. Before everything is set in stone, for the next day or so, please feel free to make any comments or express any concerns. Also if anyone would like to propose alternate army pairings then I am all ears.

Cheers,

Steve

Group A
1. Tiopepe
2. rbodleyscott
3. TheGrayMouser
4. Aryaman
5. batesmotel
6. Pantherboy
7. awesum4
8. youngr

Group B
1. w_michael
2. keyth
3. Ulysisgrunt
4. majandro
5. Hutze
6. Hrothgar

Group C
1. Praeter
2. cavehobbit
3. cromlechi
4. Doyley50
5. iandavidsmith
6. deadtorius

Proposed Pairings:
Austrian 1610-1617 vs English 1604-1622 (Tercio to Salvo)
French Huguenot 1577-1588 vs French Catholic 1562-1588 (Tercio to Salvo)
New Model Army 1646-1660 vs Scots Covenanter 1648-1652 (ECW)
French 1494-1525 vs Swiss 1494 -1515 (Italian Wars)
Danish 1625-1629 vs Imperial 1619-1632 (TYW)

Only for Group A:
Royalist Edgehill 1642 vs Parliamentarian 1642-1643 (ECW)
Transylvanian 1618-1631 vs Catholic League 1619-1632 (TYW)

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Re: Caracole III - Rules & Discussion

Post by rbodleyscott » Sat Aug 15, 2015 3:17 pm

Note that now Pike and Shot: Campaigns is out, there are separate MP servers for Pike and Shot: Campaigns and Pike and Shot.

As has been stated elsewhere, the reason for this is that owing to Apple's decision to no longer accept any updates for 32-bit programs, we cannot update Pike and Shot on the iPad, and therefore we cannot update it on the PC without breaking cross-platform MP. This is the sole reason why Pike and Shot: Campaigns has been released as a separate game, rather than as a DLC.

We recommend that anyone who purchases Pike and Shot: Campaigns also retain Pike and Shot on their PC so that they can continue to play cross-platform MP.

Tournament organisers will need to decide whether to switch at some point to Pike and Shot: Campaigns. This will allow the use of a wider range of armies for the 1494-1559 period, but will exclude iPad users from playing. On the other hand, new players who have Pike and Shot: Campaigns but not Pike and Shot would be excluded if tournaments continued to solely be played using Pike and Shot.

An unfortunate dilemma, but beyond our control. The alternative would have been to make no further improvements or additions to the game.
Richard Bodley Scott

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Re: Caracole III - Rules & Discussion

Post by batesmotel » Sat Aug 15, 2015 11:50 pm

Those who decide to accept that Apple knows best deserve what they get in lack of support.

On the other hand, game companies that decide to support their games on Apple devices should also be commited to doing what is required to stay current for Apple support.

Chris
rbodleyscott wrote:Note that now Pike and Shot: Campaigns is out, there are separate MP servers for Pike and Shot: Campaigns and Pike and Shot.

As has been stated elsewhere, the reason for this is that owing to Apple's decision to no longer accept any updates for 32-bit programs, we cannot update Pike and Shot on the iPad, and therefore we cannot update it on the PC without breaking cross-platform MP. This is the sole reason why Pike and Shot: Campaigns has been released as a separate game, rather than as a DLC.

We recommend that anyone who purchases Pike and Shot: Campaigns also retain Pike and Shot on their PC so that they can continue to play cross-platform MP.

Tournament organisers will need to decide whether to switch at some point to Pike and Shot: Campaigns. This will allow the use of a wider range of armies for the 1494-1559 period, but will exclude iPad users from playing. On the other hand, new players who have Pike and Shot: Campaigns but not Pike and Shot would be excluded if tournaments continued to solely be played using Pike and Shot.

An unfortunate dilemma, but beyond our control. The alternative would have been to make no further improvements or additions to the game.
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Re: Caracole III - Rules & Discussion

Post by iandavidsmith » Tue Aug 18, 2015 6:10 am

rbodleyscott wrote:Note that now Pike and Shot: Campaigns is out, there are separate MP servers for Pike and Shot: Campaigns and Pike and Shot.

As has been stated elsewhere, the reason for this is that owing to Apple's decision to no longer accept any updates for 32-bit programs, we cannot update Pike and Shot on the iPad, and therefore we cannot update it on the PC without breaking cross-platform MP. This is the sole reason why Pike and Shot: Campaigns has been released as a separate game, rather than as a DLC.

We recommend that anyone who purchases Pike and Shot: Campaigns also retain Pike and Shot on their PC so that they can continue to play cross-platform MP.

Tournament organisers will need to decide whether to switch at some point to Pike and Shot: Campaigns. This will allow the use of a wider range of armies for the 1494-1559 period, but will exclude iPad users from playing. On the other hand, new players who have Pike and Shot: Campaigns but not Pike and Shot would be excluded if tournaments continued to solely be played using Pike and Shot.

An unfortunate dilemma, but beyond our control. The alternative would have been to make no further improvements or additions to the game.
That's very disappointing , i only play multiplayer ,i use Pike and Shot PC and Pike and Shot on the Ipad to play all my games , i purchase Campaigns to support the game even though i will probably
not play it until or if it becomes multiplayer capable , that means that the IOS version is useless to me if i use campaigns. I would humbly suggest that you need to release Pike and Shot Campaigns on Ipad if
the current version is not upgradable and perhaps throw in a copy of the original PC game if you purchase the new Campaigns at the full price.

To quote from a movie "Only way to make sure"

For tournament runners to choose which server and version to use might be a kiss of death for this brilliant series.

My humble opinion ,
Ian

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Re: Caracole III - Rules & Discussion

Post by rbodleyscott » Tue Aug 18, 2015 6:35 am

iandavidsmith wrote:
rbodleyscott wrote:Note that now Pike and Shot: Campaigns is out, there are separate MP servers for Pike and Shot: Campaigns and Pike and Shot.

As has been stated elsewhere, the reason for this is that owing to Apple's decision to no longer accept any updates for 32-bit programs, we cannot update Pike and Shot on the iPad, and therefore we cannot update it on the PC without breaking cross-platform MP. This is the sole reason why Pike and Shot: Campaigns has been released as a separate game, rather than as a DLC.

We recommend that anyone who purchases Pike and Shot: Campaigns also retain Pike and Shot on their PC so that they can continue to play cross-platform MP.

Tournament organisers will need to decide whether to switch at some point to Pike and Shot: Campaigns. This will allow the use of a wider range of armies for the 1494-1559 period, but will exclude iPad users from playing. On the other hand, new players who have Pike and Shot: Campaigns but not Pike and Shot would be excluded if tournaments continued to solely be played using Pike and Shot.

An unfortunate dilemma, but beyond our control. The alternative would have been to make no further improvements or additions to the game.
That's very disappointing , i only play multiplayer ,i use Pike and Shot PC and Pike and Shot on the Ipad to play all my games , i purchase Campaigns to support the game even though i will probably
not play it until or if it becomes multiplayer capable , that means that the IOS version is useless to me if i use campaigns. I would humbly suggest that you need to release Pike and Shot Campaigns on Ipad if
the current version is not upgradable and perhaps throw in a copy of the original PC game if you purchase the new Campaigns at the full price.
Pike and Shot: Campaigns is multiplayer capable, it just can only play vs Pike and Shot: Campaigns.

We cannot release Pike and Shot: Campaigns on the iPad. The only reason Pike and Shot: Campaigns exists as a separate entity was because Apple is no longer accepting any submissions whatsoever, new or updates, for 32-bit games. If it hadn't been for this decision on Apple's part, Pike and Shot: campaigns would have been released as a DLC for Pike and Shot on PC and iPad. Converting the engine to 64-bit would be an extremely large task which is not economically viable.

We therefore chose to release Pike and Shot: Campaigns as a separate game on PC only, rather than freeze Pike and Shot Development at the last iPad version. If we had released it as a DLC for Pike and Shot, this would have broken PC/iPad cross-platform MP completely. By releasing it as a separate game, we allowed PC users to keep Pike and Shot on their PC so they can continue to play cross-platform PC-iPad MP.

We agree that this is an unsatisfactory situation, but it is not a problem of our making.
Richard Bodley Scott

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Re: Caracole III - Rules & Discussion

Post by batesmotel » Thu Aug 20, 2015 12:17 am

rbodleyscott wrote:
iandavidsmith wrote:
rbodleyscott wrote:Note that now Pike and Shot: Campaigns is out, there are separate MP servers for Pike and Shot: Campaigns and Pike and Shot.

As has been stated elsewhere, the reason for this is that owing to Apple's decision to no longer accept any updates for 32-bit programs, we cannot update Pike and Shot on the iPad, and therefore we cannot update it on the PC without breaking cross-platform MP. This is the sole reason why Pike and Shot: Campaigns has been released as a separate game, rather than as a DLC.

We recommend that anyone who purchases Pike and Shot: Campaigns also retain Pike and Shot on their PC so that they can continue to play cross-platform MP.

Tournament organisers will need to decide whether to switch at some point to Pike and Shot: Campaigns. This will allow the use of a wider range of armies for the 1494-1559 period, but will exclude iPad users from playing. On the other hand, new players who have Pike and Shot: Campaigns but not Pike and Shot would be excluded if tournaments continued to solely be played using Pike and Shot.

An unfortunate dilemma, but beyond our control. The alternative would have been to make no further improvements or additions to the game.
That's very disappointing , i only play multiplayer ,i use Pike and Shot PC and Pike and Shot on the Ipad to play all my games , i purchase Campaigns to support the game even though i will probably
not play it until or if it becomes multiplayer capable , that means that the IOS version is useless to me if i use campaigns. I would humbly suggest that you need to release Pike and Shot Campaigns on Ipad if
the current version is not upgradable and perhaps throw in a copy of the original PC game if you purchase the new Campaigns at the full price.
Pike and Shot: Campaigns is multiplayer capable, it just can only play vs Pike and Shot: Campaigns.

We cannot release Pike and Shot: Campaigns on the iPad. The only reason Pike and Shot: Campaigns exists as a separate entity was because Apple is no longer accepting any submissions whatsoever, new or updates, for 32-bit games. If it hadn't been for this decision on Apple's part, Pike and Shot: campaigns would have been released as a DLC for Pike and Shot on PC and iPad. Converting the engine to 64-bit would be an extremely large task which is not economically viable.

We therefore chose to release Pike and Shot: Campaigns as a separate game on PC only, rather than freeze Pike and Shot Development at the last iPad version. If we had released it as a DLC for Pike and Shot, this would have broken PC/iPad cross-platform MP completely. By releasing it as a separate game, we allowed PC users to keep Pike and Shot on their PC so they can continue to play cross-platform PC-iPad MP.

We agree that this is an unsatisfactory situation, but it is not a problem of our making.
It is Slitherine's and Byzantine Game's fault to the extent that you agreed to play by Apple's unreasonable requirement that they get to change the rules whenever they wish without the commitment to follow through with a level of support for the game required to play by Apple's arbitrary rules. I suspect that those who develop primarily for the Apple platform and depend on it for their livelihood will follow the rules as Apple defines them.

Chris
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Re: Caracole III - Rules & Discussion

Post by pantherboy » Thu Aug 20, 2015 4:03 am

Round Two Posted

Player may commence round two at their leasure. I will be setting a flexible completion date of mid-October. Currently the tables are small to look at so if players are finding it too difficult to read then I'll try and come up with an alternative method.

Cheers and good luck,

Steve

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