Some Decorations and Terrain I'd Like to See

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conboy
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Some Decorations and Terrain I'd Like to See

Post by conboy » Sat Aug 22, 2020 2:23 pm

I'd like to see some more decorations:
  • Destroyed cities AND devastated rural areas (now all we have is the terrain feature of scorched earth - it would be good to have devastated city hexes for scenarios like Stalingrad or late-war Germany or and rural for other areas (Poland, Belarus, China, etc.)
  • Destroyed military hardware - for campaigns that resume where a previous battle left off
  • Oasis - all in the desert is not sand
  • Chateau or Villa or Dacha - decorate mountains in France and lakes in Soviet Russia
  • Gubmint buildings - useful to decorate a key urban objective
  • Snow to decorate mountains - e.g. alps or high vosges or ardennes or ...
  • Symbol (international road sign or US Yield) to use as boundary marker or just to make notations/advisories for players such as highway numbers or Do Not Cross points. The flags always indicate ownership of some sort -- this would be just an unchanging notation marker with a line underneath to show some info. (Maybe this should be in the "other" category next to the flags)

Terrain features:
  • Tank Traps - something that slows armor down around a fortification or beaches - maybe with a hedgehog decoration. Would be useful for Siegfried and Maginot and many other scenarios. Now all we can do is put a 1-hex river in but this would have the same effect, just not look like a creek
  • Mountains or rough terrain that can hide infantry - maybe a rough terrain with a selector to hide infantry and anti-tank. I found that in Italian and Vosges scenarios this would have been very useful and it would be useful in Okinawa/Iwo Jima too. The only way to simulate hidden dug-in infantry is a forest hex - not always ideal
  • Location Labels that can use two lines before going to microscopic fonts - This would be ideal for me so I could name the town and then the turn or Phase or unit by which it had to be taken. Maybe use CTRL RETURN to create another line
conboy
Last edited by conboy on Sat Aug 22, 2020 3:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Erik2
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Re: Some Decorations and Terrain I'd Like to See

Post by Erik2 » Sat Aug 22, 2020 3:11 pm

Very good ideas.

A couple of additions:

Decor: Sprinkle trees on a hex, an addition to the corner trees we already have.

Terrain: Adding a major river which will block acces to all units except engineers (which may add pontoon bridges).
The current river is more of a stream.

StuccoFresco
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Re: Some Decorations and Terrain I'd Like to See

Post by StuccoFresco » Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:38 pm

Yeah rivers seems like a bit of a joke now.

GabeKnight
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Re: Some Decorations and Terrain I'd Like to See

Post by GabeKnight » Sat Aug 22, 2020 11:02 pm

Agree, good ideas indeed.

I'd also like to see some kind of "labeling"/naming icon that's not a flag and has not to be captured to close my supply area...

asuser
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Re: Some Decorations and Terrain I'd Like to See

Post by asuser » Sun Aug 23, 2020 4:57 am

Like that topic and content!

How about these add on's:

-trenches
I like the "sandbag function" as an indicator for entrenchment level, but deep look trench lines could bring an additional war feeling on the map.

-barbed wire
See trenches.

-state border signs/lines
Start a war mostly begins with violating or step over the state border lines. So it could followed by different reactions of the opponent enemy (retreat/attack) . Brings also an additional war feeling.

Erik2
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Re: Some Decorations and Terrain I'd Like to See

Post by Erik2 » Sun Aug 23, 2020 7:51 am

And I'd like to be able to see location names without having to use flags (which affects deployment).

GabeKnight
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Re: Some Decorations and Terrain I'd Like to See

Post by GabeKnight » Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:42 am

Seriously now, some new terrain/decor/mechanic would be really appreciated. 8)

I think that there hasn't been any new terrain since the "escarpments" in the Sandstorm DLC, as well as the new "sandstorm" weather effect. And the Soviet DLCs brought us the new "veteranUpgrade" trait for the Guards units, and that was about it, I believe.

It's about time for something new; and completely new features won't "break" any of the old content either!

conboy
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Re: Some Decorations and Terrain I'd Like to See

Post by conboy » Mon Aug 24, 2020 3:08 pm

GabeKnight said:
Seriously now, some new terrain/decor/mechanic would be really appreciated. 8)

I think that there hasn't been any new terrain since the "escarpments" in the Sandstorm DLC, as well as the new "sandstorm" weather effect. And the Soviet DLCs brought us the new "veteranUpgrade" trait for the Guards units, and that was about it, I believe.

It's about time for something new; and completely new features won't "break" any of the old content either!
I heartily concur --
Management -- please assign for action and report back to forum on progress!
Time's a-wastin'.
We ain't kidding.

conboy

bebro
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Re: Some Decorations and Terrain I'd Like to See

Post by bebro » Mon Aug 24, 2020 3:50 pm

Well, couple of things in the OP are doable already. Vehicle wrecks are placed in many scns at start, and doing an oasis seems very easy with terrain/decorations we have so far - a lake, few palms, plus few houses in desert style.

Otherwise we have to see for the time after Red Storm, as adding much stuff for a beta already on is not optimal.

conboy
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Re: Some Decorations and Terrain I'd Like to See

Post by conboy » Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:09 am

Bebro said:
.... we have to see for the time after Red Storm, as adding much stuff for a beta already on is not optimal
Of course!
Thanks for looking in to this.

conboy

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Re: Some Decorations and Terrain I'd Like to See

Post by rafdobrowolski » Thu Aug 27, 2020 6:17 am

Bogumil wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 3:28 pm
I am 3d freelancer from Gdańsk and have some interest to make this decorations.
Its possible to give me or others here an tutorial to create new decorations features ?
Than we could have a possible little competition process here and you can take the best features for an next upcoming patch or as add freeware here.
Do I need a golden club card to get an answer from the developers here, or I need a code word to be in the inner cyrcle ?
Czasem, trzeba chwilkę poczekać... they will get back to you eventually. A lot of the modding and design work is done on a self-taught basis by player of the game. Good to see another fellow Pole in here!

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Re: Some Decorations and Terrain I'd Like to See

Post by terminator » Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:02 am

Bogumil wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 3:28 pm
I am 3d freelancer from Gdańsk and have some interest to make this decorations.
Its possible to give me or others here an tutorial to create new decorations features ?
Than we could have a possible little competition process here and you can take the best features for an next upcoming patch or as add freeware here.
Do I need a golden club card to get an answer from the developers here, or I need a code word to be in the inner cyrcle ?
Newcomer, you simply must...act like a gentleman :wink:

Mascarenhas
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Re: Some Decorations and Terrain I'd Like to See

Post by Mascarenhas » Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:47 pm

If you only take a look at the menus section, you'll find everything you'd need about tutorials. Then, follow the design section, and you'll find the projects already under development by the community. Finally, try to create something, present your work, and expect commentaries, opinions and evaluations. In short, do your homework first, then ask others for support.

conboy
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Re: Some Decorations and Terrain I'd Like to See

Post by conboy » Fri Aug 28, 2020 12:06 am

Bogumil,

Everything we have available is in the "Design & Modding Guides" subfolder in the Scenario Design Stickies subforum, just above this thread. Poke through it and see if something in there can help you. If not, there is no secret stash of info.

Like Mascarenhas said, we'll be glad to critique and assist as best we can. Nobody is holding -- or will hold -- anything back. I hope you figure out a way to implement what your talents indicate -- again, we will help you all we can.

BTW, this has changed into a discussion of Modding resources. My OP was not about modding anything, just asking for basic enhancements for scenario designers. I wanted to pass on some lessons learned in the hope that the Artistocrats would notice and respond. They did.

Personally, I want to improve the basic game so that all my stuff is accessible without a Mod and I can be a little more creative.

conboy

asuser
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Re: Some Decorations and Terrain I'd Like to See

Post by asuser » Fri Aug 28, 2020 8:22 am

In PanzerCorps it is relatively easy to adjust the map surface with a mod. As an example, I made barbed wire and a border shield for myself, which must be placed on the respective terrain layers and could then placed on the map using the editor.
Test_07.png
Test_07.png (415.38 KiB) Viewed 543 times


In OOB it seems to be a bit more complicated, since there are also several storage locations for graphic files and additional program codes that bring the graphics into the correct alignment.

In the directory:
... / Graphics / StratMap ... the possible "graphic definition" tiles for the editor are stored.
This directory also contains the folder .../ Decorations ... in which the possible "embellishments" of the surface are stored.

In the directory:
... / Data and ... / Data / Terrain ... lies .csv, .hgt and .tex files where certain surface definitions are to be specified.
So far I don't understood how it works because the file extensions are unknown or what are the influences of the definitions in the .csv file.

GabeKnight
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Re: Some Decorations and Terrain I'd Like to See

Post by GabeKnight » Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:02 pm

conboy wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 12:06 am
BTW, this has changed into a discussion of Modding resources. My OP was not about modding anything, just asking for basic enhancements for scenario designers. [...]
You're right, still I hope you don't mind me sharing some infos from my own tests:
asuser wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 8:22 am
In the directory:
... / Graphics / StratMap ... the possible "graphic definition" tiles for the editor are stored.
This directory also contains the folder .../ Decorations ... in which the possible "embellishments" of the surface are stored.
This part actually works quite well. The whole 2D implementation of new terrain and its visibility inside the editor works without much problems.
asuser wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 8:22 am
In the directory:
... / Data and ... / Data / Terrain ... lies .csv, .hgt and .tex files where certain surface definitions are to be specified.
So far I don't understood how it works because the file extensions are unknown or what are the influences of the definitions in the .csv file.
The terrain*.csv files have to include the new terrain parameters, with basically all info/stats/colour/variations of it.
The new terrain has to be included into the chassis*.csv files to define unit movement through it.
Optional: The decorations.txt files include terrain info that's gonna be visible in the decorations tab of the editor.
New terrain pics go into \Graphics\UI\Terrain folder.
And of course you'll have to edit the language files as well.

BUT I've never got the 3D part of new terrain to work in the game. Even copy-pasting existing terrain with a new name doesn't work properly.
You can alter textures of existing terrain to a degree (\Graphics\Terrain), but that's it.

I'm not sure if Erik included the new terrain tests in the current download of the KoreanWar mod, but if you're interested there you might find my experiments with "high grass" terrain... :roll:

terrain_high_grass.png
terrain_high_grass.png (69.58 KiB) Viewed 486 times

Erik2
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Re: Some Decorations and Terrain I'd Like to See

Post by Erik2 » Sat Aug 29, 2020 9:20 am

I missed the 'grassland' option in Korea. I'll make sure to include it in the next update.

asuser
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Re: Some Decorations and Terrain I'd Like to See

Post by asuser » Sun Aug 30, 2020 6:27 am

Sounds interesting!

Is it possible to make a "Step by step" explanation how you make the new grass tiles and in which way these tiles implemented into the "graphics machine" of the game?

It could be a start point for others with drawing program knowledge to create additional overlay features... :)

GabeKnight
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Re: Some Decorations and Terrain I'd Like to See

Post by GabeKnight » Sun Aug 30, 2020 9:48 pm

Maybe I wasn't really clear about that. (IMO) It's not possible to add new, modded terrain or decorations for now. You can only change the appearance of existing terrain to a small degree.

See some of my test-results here.

asuser
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Re: Some Decorations and Terrain I'd Like to See

Post by asuser » Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:08 am

God damn...

Ok, now It's clear.
Could be, that the final look to transform the new 2D terrain into a beautiful 3D overlay is hard coded and for every new terrain someone has to make a new hard code, that brings grass, barbed wire, swamp or a simplified border line into the right location and direction on the map.

Seems like a dead end to me... :cry:

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