CSI Sweep: US 3d Infantry Division

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bru888
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CSI Sweep: US 3d Infantry Division

Post by bru888 » Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:08 pm

By invitation from conboy. Beta version.

From the moment that I opened this campaign in the editor and saw this absolutely terrific campaign map, I was impressed with the amount of work that has gone into US 3d Infantry Division. Truly impressive.

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Sometimes my interest in OOB lags a bit, especially when I get bogged down in my own projects that seem to take forever and a day to finish. Just reviewing your work has stimulated the old creative juices once again and for that, I thank you.

That said, as I was walking through the campaign, I noticed a few things here and there so let's get started, shall we? conboy, you know the routine: Everything that I seem to correct or make suggestions about is up to you to evaluate and implement as you see fit. No expectations and no hurt feelings on this end, either way.

I noticed that your core icon looks strange:

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It's because, by default, the game uses this image for the U.S., the only untrimmed circular logo in the batch:

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However, if you use this edited image (I think I acquired it from Gabe), placing it in the campaign folder, it overrides the default; it is already properly named and looks good in the campaign screen:

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- Bru

bru888
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Re: CSI Sweep: US 3d Infantry Division

Post by bru888 » Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:40 pm

I noticed in the campaign editor that there are no specialisation points received after scenarios. "He must be awarding bunches of SPs for objectives then," but no! I see that you have chosen to manage specialisations for every faction, including the U.S., in each scenario.

In that case, I suggest not frustrating the player by showing a specialisation tree which can never be accessed. You seem to have left all specialisations on for all factions, including some defunct specialisations:

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Instead, why not shut specialisations off this way?

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Now when the player clicks the Specialisations tab between scenarios, he gets a blank screen which is self-explanatory:

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Now, it is my strong assumption that turning off purchasing specialisations does not negate using them in scenarios when they are assigned. It would stand to reason and when I tested this, the specialisations that you assigned in each scenario appear in the objectives window as normal. They should be working but you know as well as I do about OOB: never assume. I think it is alright but I cannot guarantee it.

Victory and Defeat branches need editing. Defeat seems undefined (showing the default sentence) and points to an image that is not in your folder. You need to use one of the "outcome_2_x" pictures - any one of them would do since they are all the same image:

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You have two victory messages. They both pop up at the end, as I saw in my walkthrough. You probably want to delete the first one (image missing) and go with the second:

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Lastly, I'm just checking on this; a victory in 16 Colm goes to 17 Seig2 and bypasses 17 Seig. Intentional? Perhaps you meant 17 Seig to be replaced by 17 Seig 2 and you chose (wisely) to NOT delete a scenario once it's been included and saved in the campaign editor? (Note: I noticed later that 17 Seig is not in the scenarios folder, so I think this is indeed what you had in mind.)

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That's it for the campaign, I believe. Next comes the first of 21 scenarios.
- Bru

bru888
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Re: CSI Sweep: US 3d Infantry Division

Post by bru888 » Thu Sep 10, 2020 12:35 am

Introductory Scenario, beta version

Heh, this is absolutely the simplest conboy scenario that I have ever encountered. I loved it! ;)

Seriously, this was well done, a nice introduction package. Just a couple of minor points.

This message title bleeds outside the box but you are saved by the fact that it pops up against the similarly lightly colored Turn Overview screen, so it's fine:

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The other nitpicking bit is that you have nine turns and nine messages but the 8th and 9th messages both appear in Turn 8 and Turn 9 is empty of messages. I would imagine that you would want the "Transport & Commanders" message to pop up in Turn 9:

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Thread to be continued . . .
- Bru

conboy
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Re: CSI Sweep: US 3d Infantry Division

Post by conboy » Thu Sep 10, 2020 12:38 pm

Bru,
Thanks very much for taking the time.
Needless to say, I'll be following this extremely closely!
I'll respond with a list of your recommendations and my resulting actions.

Thanks again!

conboy

ps - the skip to 17 Sieg2 was intentional - the original kept blowing up on me because I tried to trim the map. Toadally beshat episode, so I just skipped it. I had to do the same thing with 11 Dragoon -- when a named file in the Campaign gets corrupted, you can't fix it.

pps -- I got the map from the internet, I didn't make it. I got permission to use it from the distributor, historyshots.com. I have the e-mail on file from them. I hope the Artistocrats don't get skittish about it.

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Re: CSI Sweep: US 3d Infantry Division

Post by Dwightd » Thu Sep 10, 2020 3:59 pm

Bru:
Welcome back, glad to see you back in action :) Let him have it! These campaigns are always improved after your sweeps.

Conboy:
I got you in my sights! Can't wait to be in command of the 3ID :D I look forward to the "official" release.

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Re: CSI Sweep: US 3d Infantry Division

Post by ColonelY » Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:09 pm

Me too! :D

Oh, and by the way, there's a little something that's been bothering me a little bit for quite some time. :x If I may, what does "CSI Sweep" exactly mean? Not the concept, of course :lol: , it's obvious :wink: , but rather the abbreviation itself... I guess C = Campaign, S = Scenario, but for the I? :? Investigation, maybe? (English isn't my mothertongue.)

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Re: CSI Sweep: US 3d Infantry Division

Post by conboy » Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:20 pm

Crime Scene Investigation!

It's a forensic-level sweep of the campaign and scenarios.

Dee-WightDee and ColonelY, SHHH!

Don't interrupt the man, he's working hard! Finding all kinds of ways to improve the campaign at the most minute level of detail... a master at work -- no, THE Master --

The Rembrandt of Assessment, the Einstein of Evaluation, the Bach of Inspection, the Michelangelo of Recommendation!

Quiet please!

conboy

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Re: CSI Sweep: US 3d Infantry Division

Post by ColonelY » Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:36 pm

Ah? :o "Crime Scene Investigation"?

Okay, thanks! :D

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Re: CSI Sweep: US 3d Infantry Division

Post by bru888 » Fri Sep 11, 2020 7:58 pm

Actually, I had a family medical emergency to attend to the past few days. Will resume sweeping very soon.

P.S. - The Colonel had it right. It's Campaign and Scenario Investigation in order to "sweep" for bugs and oversights!
- Bru

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Re: CSI Sweep: US 3d Infantry Division

Post by conboy » Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:17 pm

Bru,

I was afraid it was something like that.

Hope all is well,

conboy

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Re: CSI Sweep: US 3d Infantry Division

Post by bru888 » Sat Sep 12, 2020 3:26 am

Casablanca, beta version

There is a "20 Bercht backup" subfolder in the "1Casa" folder along with some unused photos. I could think of something to use "Peter Lorre" for, I am sure.

No words of consolation, condemnation, or derision for defeat? Is this scenario that easy? :)

In the following triggers, the Trigger Event should be "Turn Start" to match the "Scenario turn limit" condition:
Eastern Sector Secured (Clone)*
Casablanca NOT Taken
SW Not Secured**
Harbor NOT secured***

*Also, the Effects in this trigger complete and fail the same objective.
**Also, wrong objectives in the Effects.
***Perhaps use a "Capture VP Event" for the "Harbor Secured" trigger. Also, wrong objectives in the "Harbor NOT secured" triggers Effects.

Technically, you don't need the "Check Turn < 21" condition on the corresponding "win" versions of those triggers but I don't think it will cause any problems.

Did you mean to assign the 7th Regt Commander to a faction like you did the other two commanders?

The "Supply Disruption Pop-up" message talks about "only minimal resupply will be provided." By that, do you mean "Resources curtailed at this point"? If so, you may want to clarify in the message that it's not actually supply involved but a reduction in resource income.

The "Clear Fortress and Coastal Gun < turn 7" is another one of those situations which we have discussed in the past. You have the trigger set for Turn Start / Check Turn < 7. This means the last time it will potentially fire and award the objective will be at the START of Turn 6 and that means, if the player does what is asked DURING Turn 6, he will not get credit for completing the objective. My suggestion is to use Capture VP Event instead. Then you are covered.

Here's another suggestion. Usually, we don't bother with fail triggers for secondary objectives. Like the "Clear SW Hex" objective, they either are completed or remain open; there is no need to fail these objectives like you do with primary objectives. Here, though, I feel the need to have a failure "X" appear on Turn 7 if "Clear the two Coastal Guns < turn 7" is not done in time. Here is how I would do it:

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Notice in the screenshots, by the way, that I moved the "Clear SW Hex" trigger up to the Secondary Objectives folder instead of the subfolder that it was in.

In the "SW Counterattack" trigger, there is no Unit Definition for the "Check Unit(s) Near Hex" condition. That means any of the U.S. planes that fly near will fire the trigger. I think you want to restrict it to Category: Land.

You have a "!" indicated for two AI teams and that is usually not a good sign (it indicates a mixture of Land, Naval, and/or Air units in one team). Is the cruiser Primauguet supposed to be in AI Team 1 "Static Defenders," along with land units? Similarly, there is a French Heavy Infantry unit south of El Aaron which is in the same AI Team 3 "Naval Interdiction" as the two destroyers.

(These are the kinds of things that a CSI sweep picks up, by the way. It may not be noticed that the Primauguet never heads east as I believe you intended.)

One last suggestion. The two units in AI Team 9 "SW counterattack" are set for Idle until called upon to attack. I would give them a fighting chance, if encountered by the enemy before then, by setting them at least to Static Defense.

Thread to be continued . . .
- Bru

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Re: CSI Sweep: US 3d Infantry Division

Post by ColonelY » Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:28 pm

bru888 wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 7:58 pm
[...] It's Campaign and Scenario Investigation in order to "sweep" for bugs and oversights!
Thanks! :D

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Re: CSI Sweep: US 3d Infantry Division

Post by conboy » Sat Sep 12, 2020 2:19 pm

Thanks, Bru -- due to your prodding, I have an idea for Peter now.

Thanks, these tips will obviously help the scenario, needless to say. I had a great deal of trouble with this one, and it is the least representative of all the scenarios. Honestly, I wish the 3d ID had started their war in Sicily -- it would have simplified the campaign quite a bit!

conboy

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Re: CSI Sweep: US 3d Infantry Division

Post by bru888 » Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:24 pm

conboy wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 2:19 pm
Thanks, Bru -- due to your prodding, I have an idea for Peter now.
Could be something as simple as a popup message at the beginning of the scenario. Like, Title: "Casablanca" Text: "Life in Vichy-controlled Casablanca is about to drastically change." You may have a better idea, however.

Also, and I think you would know to do this, crop the photo so that Lorre is not truncated when the game displays the image. Something like this:

peter_lorre.png
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- Bru

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Re: CSI Sweep: US 3d Infantry Division

Post by bru888 » Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:51 am

Sicily: Licata to Palermo, beta version

"Operation Husky" campaign message misspelling: "partcipant"

I see the exit hexes for the U.S. aircraft but no redeployment hexes. Intentional?*

Only because a trigger referred to blowing all bridges (road and railroad) was my attention called to the fact that although your template indicates railroads, you don't include them on your map. Intentional?

The AI has only one corresponding objective to win if the player fails his objectives: "Hold any Phase I objective to turn 7." It is my understanding that when a player fails an objective, there needs to be at least one AI objective to complete in order to provide for Defeat. This can be just one AI objective depending on the situation but in this case, it appears that "Hold any Phase I objective to turn 7" would not be the corresponding answer to your other player primary objectives. Hence I think you need matching AI objectives for "Seize Phase II Objectives < Turn 17" and "Capture Palermo."

There are only four VPs associated with the "Seize Phase I objectives <Turn 7" but the objective is pointing to five hexes. The fifth is the South Mara Bridge which is also the hex being pointed to for the secondary objective "South Mara Bridge Operational Turn 8 Start."

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I would move the AI Teams 13 & 14, "Raffadali arty" and "Serradifalco counterattack, from Idle to Static Defense in case they are approached before their triggers call them into action.

No Target Hex (or Unit) selected for the "Check Unit(s) Near Hex condition in the "Go on Attack" trigger.

Triggers tell AI Teams 12 & 13 "mara river arty" and "Raffadali arty" to move to places but nothing after that. They will be Idle thereafter unless there are triggers to set each team for Static or Local Defense once they get where they are going.

The "Take all Phase I Primary Locs < Turn 7" is another one of those situations which we have discussed in the past. You have the trigger set for Turn Start / Check Turn < 7. This means the last time it will potentially fire and award the objective will be at the START of Turn 6 and that means, if the player does what is asked DURING Turn 6, he will not get credit for completing the objective. My suggestion is to use Capture VP Event instead. Then you are covered.

The same comments apply to "Take all Phase II Primary Locs < 17" and "Capture Palermo < Turn 28." All of these triggers should be Capture VP Event. For example, capturing Palermo; with Turn Start, it evaluates at the beginning of Turn 27. If the player takes Palermo during Turn 27, he is going to be disappointed.

In the "Take all Phase I Primary Locs < Turn 7" trigger, you have a "Set Trigger State" effect to turn on the "Naval Gunfire Support Leaves" trigger but that trigger is already active and fires when the Allies take Cattolica. By the way, you have that trigger set up to remove destroyers within 15 hexes of a point at sea west of Porto Empedocle. That radius ends just west of Licata so if the player has the destroyers deployed east of Licata, they will not be removed. Either extend the radius or leave it out altogether in which case the game will remove all destroyers anywhere. (On second thought, better extend the radius. Otherwise, you will need to create a new effect because you cannot reset the Target Hex to inactive; a Distance of zero means the Target Hex itself.)

"Take all Phase II Primary Locs < 17" fails the wrong AI objective and "Capture Palermo < Turn 28" fails no AI objective.

All of the "Axis - Hold any primaryPhase II Loc" triggers are looking at the wrong objectives for both sides in the Effects.

Just to be sure, I would make "Axis - Hold Palermo to end" evaluate at Turn Start to go along with the "Scenario turn limit" condition. Also, this trigger does not include an AI objective to complete when the player fails "Capture Palermo."

There is no reason to evaluate "Secure all Secondary Objectives before Palermo" with a Check Turn condition. Just make it a Capture VP Event with no restrictions on turns.

By the way, you are pointing to 21 secondary VPs on the map but there are 22 if you add in Licata. That might actually be a problem because if the player takes 22 secondary objectives but the Condition is "Secondary VP Value = 21" (not "Value > 20"), then the trigger may not fire.

So the Mara River bridge (road only) is blown when the Allies approach within a couple of hexes. Then you want the bridge repaired by the start of Turn 8. I guess we can assume the player will go that way early enough to justify the Turn 8 restriction. Two things: 1) I would either make the "Blow 115 bridge on Mara River" and "South Mara River Bridge" triggers refer to "Road Bridge" instead of "All" (EXCEPT if you decide to put in railroads, then leave it as "All") and 2) Clarify in the mission description that the goal is to put a pontoon bridge across the river at that point (which begs the question of how does that work when it's both a blown road and and rail bridge in that hex? That I don't know). This is not clear and is further confused by repeating the message from the other secondary objective "NOTE: These objectives must be taken before all the Primary Objectives are taken..." Here, you mean "This bridge repair mission must be completed before all the Primary Objectives are taken..."

For "Corleone Surrender," consider two things. First, if the garrison is surrendering upon sight, have the unit exit instead of killing them to avoid the appearance that they were executed! Second, perhaps include a "Change Hex Ownership" effect to instantly turn the town over to Allied control.

The same comments apply to the other "Surrendering Fascisti" triggers.

You may know better than me but I would not time "RPs for upgrade to '43" for "Turn Start / Check Turn <1." What is that, Turn 0? Does that work? If you are not absolutely sure, then it would be better to merely set it for Scenario Start and leave out the Check Turn condition.

*I see that, in "P40s Leave," you exit those three planes in Turn 6. The question above still pertains, however, because there are two Lightnings and one Invader which will not be able to return once they exit.

The hex for the "Defend Hex" task assigned to AI Team 1 "Shore Defense" is undefined (Hex (0,0)).

When "Riesi Recon" gets to its destination, perhaps have a trigger that turns it to Static or Local Defense.

Thread to be continued . . .
- Bru

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Re: CSI Sweep: US 3d Infantry Division

Post by conboy » Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:22 pm

Thanks very much, Bru!
I always learn so much from these sweeps and this will help the campaign a lot.
Some of these issues you raise were bugging me when I developed the scenario but I didn't know how to deal with them, except bludgeon through it and if it works in the end it's okay.
But there are many different ways and avenues players take to tackle a scenario, and these notes will ensure that all the paths you evaluated will work properly -- eventually someone will take that route.

so thanks again!

conboy

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Re: CSI Sweep: US 3d Infantry Division

Post by Erik2 » Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:08 pm

Yes, it is good to see Bru with the CSI hat on again.

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Re: CSI Sweep: US 3d Infantry Division

Post by Mascarenhas » Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:23 pm

Great!

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Re: CSI Sweep: US 3d Infantry Division

Post by bru888 » Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:03 am

Yeah, and I am reluctant to do this, but I have lost interest in sweeping. I'm done.

Nothing to do with you, conboy, except this "San Fratello and Brolo" scenario is beyond me. I cannot figure out what is going on; it's that complicated. But it was just a trigger for a bigger personal issue.

I hate to disappoint you but I have been experiencing some reversals in life both minor and significant. Right now, I don't feel that I can continue with this project and do it justice. So I am going to resign at this point and advise you to release the campaign and to address issues as they arise. Your campaign does not have to be perfect to be played and enjoyed.

The OOB flame had come to life but now it's flickering out again. I'm not having fun with OOB at this point; it's become a chore and that is not good. This includes my own designing; I had spent an incredible amount of time to produce four scenarios of Free France in the time that it took Erik to create four campaigns among his other projects.

So I was faced with a multiple choice concerning this sweep: Gloss it over and do something half-assed; disappear and say nothing; or come here and explain which was the right thing to do. Therefore, please know that I am going back to playing OOB and designing here and there for private use. I need more fun in my life, not more work.

I'll be around but I will understand if I am not one of your favorite buddies from now on.
- Bru

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Re: CSI Sweep: US 3d Infantry Division

Post by conboy » Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:44 am

Well, I must say in gratitude that you have given me, and us, a great deal of time and sweat to make these campaigns, scenarios, and forum comments a beneficial and rewarding place for us all.

I know that you must get tired of going over the same old stuff with me again and again, but don't think I don't appreciate it and have learned a great deal. It makes a big difference when one designs stuff knowing that you, Bru, might be looking it over. I thought it was a massive request for you to check an entire campaign over, and it made me feel bad that it contained kinds of errors that you had pointed out previously. But these scenarios weren't done in sequence, so some benefited more from experience (and your advice) than others.

So, keep awn keepen awwn, hombre. We all get there sometimes.

Have a glass of rye and put "Let it Bleed" on the loop. And thanks for everything.

conboy

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