conboy's scenarios

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bru888
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Re: New Scenario: Low Vosges to Strasbourg

Post by bru888 » Wed Oct 02, 2019 8:14 pm

Okay, so. You asked in the OP "I can't make up my mind on the phase I objectives, whether they should be 'Hold all at turn 20' or 'Take all before turn 21'. Let me know what you think." You already partially answered that in the mission description: "At start of Turn 20, all Phase I objectives must be in Allied possession" (small "p" in "possession," if you please, unless you intend to spawn an exorcist :) ). That's what is happening here:

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The Soviets move first in every turn. You have not specified an Alliance in the condition, so the trigger will fire at the beginning of Turn 20 before the Soviets move and it will evaluate this "Check Hex Owner" condition. If it or any one of the others is true, then one or the other will fail the human objective and award the AI objective.

This means that nothing the human player does during his Turn 20 will mean anything to those objectives. He had to have them all at the end of his Turn 19. That is what you intended, going by the mission description.

So it's not "Take all before turn 21" because that implies the player would have had Turn 20 to complete the objective. Instead, I think the objective should read as "Take & Hold all Phase I Objectives before Turn 20" (or "Take & Hold all Phase I Objectives < Turn 20" to use your shorthand).

By the way, there is a question as to how many Phase I Objectives? With both sets of triggers, you only address 6 locations but the objective itself points to 8 hexes:

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By process of elimination, I found that the two omitted VP's are these in the west; Jeanménil and "Gene" Autrey Crossing (ee-haw, giddy up!):

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- Bru

bru888
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Re: New Scenario: Low Vosges to Strasbourg

Post by bru888 » Wed Oct 02, 2019 8:39 pm

Here's another potential issue. The mission is "Take & Hold . . ." That implies the Germans could take them back. How active are the Germans in this area? Could they retake one of these VP's?

Because if that is so, then having this set for "Turn < 20" *could be* wrong. Not the "20" but the "<":

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Say the Allies take Fraize on Turn 17 but lose it to the Germans on Turn 18. This trigger will already have awarded the objective to the Allies, so it will not matter. If you want the 6 (or 8 ) primary VP's in Allied hands at the beginning of Turn 20, the trigger should be set for "Turn = 20."

*I say "could be" because - and this is getting complicated, I know - technically, if the human player did take all Phase I objectives early and was awarded the objective, and the Germans did subsequently take one of the objectives back before Turn 20, then I believe the associated "Phase I Objectives Not Held Turn 20" trigger would "reverse the decision" and fail the objective anyway. This could be what you intended but I don't have any practical experience in seeing it done this way, just theory.

Now, I hesitate to complicate things even further, and this is not necessary, so ignore the rest of this post if you wish. I have been recommending to Erik at times the use of the "Check Objective State" condition in situations like this. Instead of those "Phase I Objectives Not Held Turn 20" triggers, just this one that checks to see if the objective is still open and, if so, fails it at the start of the turn indicated:

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Don't bother with this in this scenario, and especially if it's not what you intended (i.e., you want to allow the objective to be completed early AND failed on Turn 20 if any objective is subsequently lost). Just keep it in mind.
- Bru

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Re: New Scenario: Low Vosges to Strasbourg

Post by bru888 » Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:21 pm

"Final Objectives Taken" - 9 objective hexes and 9 "Check Hex Owner" conditions. Perfect match, right? Wrong! :x ( :wink: )

These two conditions both point to the same unnamed hex (scroll to the bottom of the conditions list and count up three, and four):

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The hex that is not addressed is Wieterswiller, the northernmost primary VP in the group.

This trigger is also set for "Turn < 40" like the one above, so the same comments apply. However, it is set for "Capture VP Event" while the other one was "Turn Start" so that begs the same question. Is this to be evaluated before Turn 40 (allows early scenario end) or at Turn 40 (forces player to go through all 40 turns)?

Actually, hold off doing anything about those "Turn < 20/40" conditions until I can wrap my head around them adequately. I'll be back soon.

Thread to be continued . . .
- Bru

conboy
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Re: New Scenario: Low Vosges to Strasbourg

Post by conboy » Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:16 pm

Ok. Standing by. I will never make another scenario that takes over 4 hours per playthrough!

I'll update this post when your are done, addressing all comments.

I pulled the link down so other folks wouldn't download it and try to play it with the beshat location for the start of the XX Pz counterattack.

Thanks, Bru!

conboy

bru888
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Re: New Scenario: Low Vosges to Strasbourg

Post by bru888 » Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:39 pm

conboy wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:16 pm
Thanks, Bru!
My pleasure.
bru888 wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:21 pm
Actually, hold off doing anything about those "Turn < 20/40" conditions until I can wrap my head around them adequately. I'll be back soon.
Here's what you do: Go back over previous posts and glean everything that I said that does not pertain to "Turn < 20/40" conditions. Retain that stuff.

As for the "Turn < 20/40" conditions, though, disregard what I said because now I believe I have a clearer picture of what you are trying to do.

Correct me if I am wrong, but your intention is to allow the human player to end the scenario early and not condemn him to playing out all 40 turns unnecessarily. If that is true, then concentrate on this: "Turn Start / Check Turn / Turn < 40" is not the same as "Scenario turn limit."

That is, "Turn Start / Check Turn / Turn < 40" will evaluate at the start of Turn 40 and not include the events and results that happen in Turn 40. On the other hand, it is my impression that "Scenario turn limit" does include everything that happens in Turn 40.

If you followed that, then this should help (right-click and select "View Image" or download the spreadsheet file):

Image0068.jpg
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Low Vosges to Strasbourg Victory Conditions.zip
(5.87 KiB) Downloaded 6 times

Under "CURRENT" are the victory conditions as you have them in this version. Red bold indicates what I think are issues:
  • When you say "Turn < 40", you mean up to and including Turn 39. Anything the player does in his Turn 40 will not count.
  • Marking the "Not taken: [Village]" triggers as "Capture VP Event" means these triggers will not fire upon "Scenario turn limit." That requires "Turn Start."
Under "RECOMMENDED" I have shown what I believe will correct these issues:
  • Change the Final Objectives Taken" and "Forest Cleared" triggers to "Turn < 41" which I believe will be analogous to "Scenario turn limit."
  • Change the "Not taken: [Village]" triggers to show the event as "Turn Start."
This is the best that I can do. Put another way, this is to the best of my understanding. As always, I cannot guarantee that the game will do what we think and assume it will do, but I believe these recommendations have precedents in other scenarios in which they appear to be successful.
- Bru

conboy
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Re: New Scenario: Low Vosges to Strasbourg

Post by conboy » Thu Oct 03, 2019 12:29 am

Bru said
Speaking of images, would you be willing to offer me recompense for my services by divulging where and how you get your newspaper headline photos? Is it just by internet search...
I just poke around the internet till I find something appropriate. Use the dates and ask for newspaper images.

conboy
Last edited by conboy on Thu Oct 03, 2019 12:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.

bru888
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Re: New Scenario: Low Vosges to Strasbourg

Post by bru888 » Thu Oct 03, 2019 12:50 am

Very good, thanks. I thought maybe you knew of a special website . . . okay, it's good searching skills that are required. Back to the sweep.

You point to 13 secondary VP's with the objective "Take all Secondary Objectives <End" but you have 16 "Check Hex Owner" conditions in the "Secondary Objectives Taken" trigger, so there is an obvious mismatch.

We have seen this before in your work; it's a ramification of your designing style (many objectives and triggers). I tried to sort it out for you but this is important and you must do the rest if I haven't found everything. Else, your scenario players will complain that they don't know how many secondary objectives there are and where they are. Lacking a count, they must at least be able to click the objective information question mark to see them and who currently owns them.

I believe these highlighted hexes are the ones that are not pointed to but included in the trigger:

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This is another hex that is included in the trigger - it's not pointed to and not even a secondary VP:

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To balance things out, this highlighted hex is one that is pointed to but not addressed in the trigger:

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The more complicated you make a scenario, the more attention to detail is required. I think you got the chops in that regard but you need to develop the techniques. How did I find (at least some) of those mismatches? By clicking the "H" button next to the objective, then the "Target Hex" button on each condition. When I was done, where there were NOT doubled arrows indicated one or the other type of mismatch.
- Bru

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Re: New Scenario: Low Vosges to Strasbourg

Post by bru888 » Thu Oct 03, 2019 1:19 am

Wait, there's more about this trigger. :)

As we (that is, I) found in that famous thread What does "Scenario turn limit" mean, exactly?, if a scenario can end early, then other triggers that use the "Scenario turn limit" may not function properly because they are literally looking for the Turn Limit which in this case is Turn 40:

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The good news is, you don't even need this condition. Just delete it. A secondary objective like this can be achieved at any time and doesn't have to wait until "Scenario turn limit." If the scenario does end with this objective still open, then it merely means the difference between Major and Minor Victory/Defeat.

Just a couple of minor issues with these last two secondary objective triggers. There is a discrepancy between mission and condition here - is it before Turn 19 or before Turn 14? - and the effect that completes the objective is missing:

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And the same with this trigger; it's missing the objective completion effect:

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Woof. When I get through your objective triggers, I always see the light at the end of the tunnel. :)
- Bru

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Re: New Scenario: Low Vosges to Strasbourg

Post by bru888 » Thu Oct 03, 2019 2:11 am

Yes, I nitpick, but that is what you are paying me to do! :x ( :wink: )

So here is another example. You blow up certain bridges in the beginning, which is cool although a couple of them are behind the front line, which is a bit strange, too. What I object to is this particular bridge being blown up with the motorized artillery unit on it surviving unscathed:

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Also, wherever this bridge is that you wish to blow to kingdom come, you neglected to set its Target Hex (you can always tell when this happens by the absence of a Remove Hex in this effect):

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There is a "french action" image in the folder, but none named merely "french":

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Technically, without a Unit Definition of Category: Land, a U.S. plane could fire this trigger:

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Same with this trigger. And, just checking on this one; you want the Bautruppe units guarding Strasbourg to retreat when the Allies approach Strasbourg (which city you should label, by the way)? That makes sense but you also want these two artillery units in the Forest of Etival to join them?

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- Bru

bru888
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Re: New Scenario: Low Vosges to Strasbourg

Post by bru888 » Thu Oct 03, 2019 2:32 am

Alright, the finish line is just ahead. :D

Here is the last issue. This trigger is intended to award the "Deploy Pontoon Bridge over River Montagne <Turn 8" objective:

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For one thing, I would recommend that you delete that thread and include its effects in the "Pontoon Bridge South of Autrey <turn 9" trigger:

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You may notice why it's a good idea to have only one trigger dealing with each trigger. For one thing, the resource rewards are doubled. Next, the objective says "<Turn 8" and that is the way it is in the "S Autrey Pontoon Bridge" trigger. But the earlier trigger says "<turn 9" and that is the way it is set. Which should it be?

Unless I missed it, I don't see a separate trigger that awards the "Take Raon l'Etape and Etival <Turn 19" objective, as I mentioned earlier.

One last thing; I always believe that unless on-the-map units are supposed to truly do nothing until attacked and destroyed, their AI team should be set to something other than "Idle," just in case. At least "Static Defense":

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Well, that was an experience, as usual! An enjoyable one, if also a long one. I do know what I am getting into when I open up a Conboy scenario, so no excuses and no complaints from me.

I cannot comment on balance and gameplay, but if you take care of these issues that I identified, I believe you will get better feedback now. Nice work and a lot of work, as usual. Beautiful map, too. Good luck with it.
- Bru

conboy
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Re: New Scenario: Low Vosges to Strasbourg

Post by conboy » Thu Oct 03, 2019 12:48 pm

Thanks very much Bru.

I'll get back to you on this.

The missed actuation for the XX Pz is such a big deal I pulled down the link.

I needed some help, obviously, so thanks for putting the time and effort in it.

conboy

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Re: New Scenario: Low Vosges to Strasbourg

Post by conboy » Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:56 pm

Bru, here is my response to your comments. Thanks again for your time. I hope you don't think I abused your generosity with a premature submission!

Interesting. I was just checking over your AI teams, looking for unassigned units (none) when I noticed this: (Dutch Heavy Infantry)
Total oversight due to using the Dutch flag to indicate corps sister units. I don’t know how they got assigned to the German side, though.

I cover it all in these sweeps, including the weather! So, I noticed that it's snowing but the landscape is not in winter. Then I noticed the date in the third week of October. Yes, the air could be cold enough in this country now for there to be snow but still too warm for it to stick and coat the ground.
Right – it was snowing and raining all through the battle. Vosges are high up and if it was raining in the low-ground, it snowed up yonder in the hills.

Briefing suggestion: "Truscott here, Commander VI Corps, briefing you, the US 3rd DIv Commander."
Thank you!

None of your briefings have a Focus Hex. It might be good to point out these locations on the map. Also, the briefings seem to be repetitive and could use some editing.
Thanks – wilco.

No words of wisdom, commiseration, or scorn for Defeat? You do provide for Defeat by having AI objectives but perhaps you are okay with the default messages:
No, they need updating.

And I don't want to be a prissy pants stuck in the mud fuddy-dud but that reference to "Groundhog day" is a clunker to me. It's an anachronism; the association of Groundhog Day and repeatedly reliving the same day or series of events came from the 1993 movie.
Roger.

Now, this soothes the historian in me! I like these touches. [re:Ted Williams Tickets] And I did check; Williams was a big enough star to be an attraction before he went into military service during World War 2: Now, it so happens that Williams was never in Europe during WW2, so the pass would have had to include a furlough back to the States.
In my mind, Ted Williams was the best baseball player ever – especially the best batter. A great patriot, too! I gotta come up with something clever for all the scenarios in this campaign…

I don't see an image file in the folder that matches this name: (XV Corps)
Oversight, I thought I fixed it after the last playthrough. Grrr… sorry.

The Target Hex for this condition is way at the top of the map. It could be a long time, if ever, that the Allies occupy that hex and start the armor battle. Intentional?
No, this occurred when I tried to move the trigger hex south, but it ended up moving north inadvertently. My error, this one is egregious because it ruins the gameplay. Some reason, the hex picker gets stuck sometimes and moves (inexperience?)

Here's something that makes me think that is an error. The Event Popup trigger's Target Hex is further south, around where Panzer Lehr is headed. It would seem odd to get the popup message here, then need to wait to begin the battle until an Allied unit takes the hex all the way to the north:
Yes, that’s a major error!

Better check the Target Hexes on the Event Popup and Focus Camera effects as well. They are pointing to the north and, due to fog of war, they will just be showing blank terrain.
I thought that I put the XII corps spotter plane on top of the XX Pz to prevent the blank terrain issue.

The Target Hex does not point to a VP even though the event is "Capture VP Event." No doubt the trigger would fire anyway eventually, the next time a VP is taken, but to be precise, you may want to either make this a "Move Event" or point the Target Hex to one of the nearby VP's:
Thanks for pointing that out.

Under the category of learn something new about OOB every day (it seems): Capitalization of image file names does not matter. Your trigger calls for the image named "3rd Move Out" but the file is actually named "3rd move out." No problem:
Now we have a record to prove it!

Spaces can be a problem, though. For example, it wouldn't work if the trigger was "3rd Move Out" but the file name was "3rdMoveOut" or "3rd_Move_Out."
10-4

Okay, so. You asked in the OP "I can't make up my mind on the phase I objectives, whether they should be 'Hold all at turn 20' or 'Take all before turn 21'. Let me know what you think." You already partially answered that in the mission description: "At start of Turn 20, all Phase I objectives must be in Allied possession" (small "p" in "possession," if you please, unless you intend to spawn an exorcist ). That's what is happening here: … The Soviets move first in every turn. You have not specified an Alliance in the condition, so the trigger will fire at the beginning of Turn 20 before the Soviets move and it will evaluate this "Check Hex Owner" condition. If it or any one of the others is true, then one or the other will fail the human objective and award the AI objective. This means that nothing the human player does during his Turn 20 will mean anything to those objectives. He had to have them all at the end of his Turn 19. That is what you intended, going by the mission description. So it's not "Take all before turn 21" because that implies the player would have had Turn 20 to complete the objective. Instead, I think the objective should read as "Take & Hold all Phase I Objectives before Turn 20" (or "Take & Hold all Phase I Objectives < Turn 20" to use your shorthand).
Copy all, thanks for the lesson.

By the way, there is a question as to how many Phase I Objectives? With both sets of triggers, you only address 6 locations but the objective itself points to 8 hexes. By process of elimination, I found that the two omitted VP's are these in the west; Jeanménil and "Gene" Autrey Crossing (ee-haw, giddy up!).
I recently noticed that there is “Check VP Count” trigger – I will use that from now on for the Secondary Objectives instead of calling them out individually in the Triggers. Much easier – so your CSI sweeps of Erik’s stuff benefits us all. Thanks for catching the error.
Here's another potential issue. The mission is "Take & Hold . . ." That implies the Germans could take them back. How active are the Germans in this area? Could they retake one of these VP's? Because if that is so, then having this set for "Turn < 20" *could be* wrong. Not the "20" but the "<". Say the Allies take Fraize on Turn 17 but lose it to the Germans on Turn 18. This trigger will already have awarded the objective to the Allies, so it will not matter. If you want the 6 (or 8 ) primary VP's in Allied hands at the beginning of Turn 20, the trigger should be set for "Turn = 20." *I say "could be" because - and this is getting complicated, I know - technically, if the human player did take all Phase I objectives early and was awarded the objective, and the Germans did subsequently take one of the objectives back before Turn 20, then I believe the associated "Phase I Objectives Not Held Turn 20" trigger would "reverse the decision" and fail the objective anyway. This could be what you intended but I don't have any practical experience in seeing it done this way, just theory.
I will make all Phase I objectives Turn=20. That’s how I want this one to play.

Now, I hesitate to complicate things even further, and this is not necessary, so ignore the rest of this post if you wish. I have been recommending to Erik at times the use of the "Check Objective State" condition in situations like this. Instead of those "Phase I Objectives Not Held Turn 20" triggers, just this one that checks to see if the objective is still open and, if so, fails it at the start of the turn indicated. Don't bother with this in this scenario, and especially if it's not what you intended (i.e., you want to allow the objective to be completed early AND failed on Turn 20 if any objective is subsequently lost). Just keep it in mind.
Ok, thanks for the clarification and suggestion.
"Final Objectives Taken" - 9 objective hexes and 9 "Check Hex Owner" conditions. Perfect match, right? Wrong! ( )These two conditions both point to the same unnamed hex (scroll to the bottom of the conditions list and count up three, and four): The hex that is not addressed is Wieterswiller, the northernmost primary VP in the group. This trigger is also set for "Turn < 40" like the one above, so the same comments apply. However, it is set for "Capture VP Event" while the other one was "Turn Start" so that begs the same question. Is this to be evaluated before Turn 40 (allows early scenario end) or at Turn 40 (forces player to go through all 40 turns)?
I want to allow early scenario end, so Turn<41 is what I want to use.

Correct me if I am wrong, but your intention is to allow the human player to end the scenario early and not condemn him to playing out all 40 turns unnecessarily. If that is true, then concentrate on this: "Turn Start / Check Turn / Turn < 40" is not the same as "Scenario turn limit." That is, "Turn Start / Check Turn / Turn < 40" will evaluate at the start of Turn 40 and not include the events and results that happen in Turn 40. On the other hand, it is my impression that "Scenario turn limit" does include everything that happens in Turn 40.
Ok, I erred in <40, it should be <41 so as to go to end of scenario if player needs it. Thanks.

If you followed that, then this should help (right-click and select "View Image" or download the spreadsheet file): … Under "CURRENT" are the victory conditions as you have them in this version. Red bold indicates what I think are issues:
• When you say "Turn < 40", you mean up to and including Turn 39. Anything the player does in his Turn 40 will not count.
• Marking the "Not taken: [Village]" triggers as "Capture VP Event" means these triggers will not fire upon "Scenario turn limit." That requires "Turn Start."
Under "RECOMMENDED" I have shown what I believe will correct these issues:
• Change the Final Objectives Taken" and "Forest Cleared" triggers to "Turn < 41" which I believe will be analogous to "Scenario turn limit."
• Change the "Not taken: [Village]" triggers to show the event as "Turn Start."
This is the best that I can do. Put another way, this is to the best of my understanding. As always, I cannot guarantee that the game will do what we think and assume it will do, but I believe these recommendations have precedents in other scenarios in which they appear to be successful.

Regarding all of that, I cannot believe how generous you are with your time! This is an absolute primer in Scenario Development!

You point to 13 secondary VP's with the objective "Take all Secondary Objectives <End" but you have 16 "Check Hex Owner" conditions in the "Secondary Objectives Taken" trigger, so there is an obvious mismatch. We have seen this before in your work; it's a ramification of your designing style (many objectives and triggers). I tried to sort it out for you but this is important and you must do the rest if I haven't found everything. Else, your scenario players will complain that they don't know how many secondary objectives there are and where they are. Lacking a count, they must at least be able to click the objective information question mark to see them and who currently owns them.
Yes, as I stated above, I will start using a counter for the secondary objectives rather than entering them individually in the triggers. Much easier to implement and check!

I believe these highlighted hexes are the ones that are not pointed to but included in the trigger. … This is another hex that is included in the trigger - it's not pointed to and not even a secondary VP: (figure) To balance things out, this highlighted hex is one that is pointed to but not addressed in the trigger:
Thanks again.

The more complicated you make a scenario, the more attention to detail is required. I think you got the chops in that regard but you need to develop the techniques.
I am (working on) developing them through experience and your tutelage, along with the comments of the folks who play the scenarios I offer.

How did I find (at least some) of those mismatches? By clicking the "H" button next to the objective, then the "Target Hex" button on each condition. When I was done, where there were NOT doubled arrows indicated one or the other type of mismatch.
Thanks for the error-checking method description!

Wait, there's more about this trigger. As we (that is, I) found in that famous thread What does "Scenario turn limit" mean, exactly?, if a scenario can end early, then other triggers that use the "Scenario turn limit" may not function properly because they are literally looking for the Turn Limit which in this case is Turn 40. The good news is, you don't even need this condition. Just delete it. A secondary objective like this can be achieved at any time and doesn't have to wait until "Scenario turn limit." If the scenario does end with this objective still open, then it merely means the difference between Major and Minor Victory/Defeat.
Roger all. Thanks for the catch.

Just a couple of minor issues with these last two secondary objective triggers. There is a discrepancy between mission and condition here - is it before Turn 19 or before Turn 14? - and the effect that completes the objective is missing: And the same with this trigger; it's missing the objective completion effect:
I have to check that carefully – I may have inadvertently left a trigger in there that was covered elsewhere.
So here is another example. You blow up certain bridges in the beginning, which is cool although a couple of them are behind the front line, which is a bit strange, too. What I object to is this particular bridge being blown up with the motorized artillery unit on it surviving unscathed: … Also, wherever this bridge is that you wish to blow to kingdom come, you neglected to set its Target Hex (you can always tell when this happens by the absence of a Remove Hex in this effect):
Ouch! My errors, of course.

There is a "french action" image in the folder, but none named merely "french": … Technically, without a Unit Definition of Category: Land, a U.S. plane could fire this trigger: Same with this trigger. And, just checking on this one; you want the Bautruppe units guarding Strasbourg to retreat when the Allies approach Strasbourg (which city you should label, by the way)? That makes sense but you also want these two artillery units in the Forest of Etival to join them?
No, these are errors that I thought I fixed after the last playthrough. Thank you – it baffles me how I thought I fixed them and now they’re beshat again.


Here is the last issue. This trigger is intended to award the "Deploy Pontoon Bridge over River Montagne <Turn 8" objective: … For one thing, I would recommend that you delete that thread and include its effects in the "Pontoon Bridge South of Autrey <turn 9" trigger: … You may notice why it's a good idea to have only one trigger dealing with each trigger. For one thing, the resource rewards are doubled. Next, the objective says "<Turn 8" and that is the way it is in the "S Autrey Pontoon Bridge" trigger. But the earlier trigger says "<turn 9" and that is the way it is set. Which should it be?
Ok. Good catch, I’ll implement.

Unless I missed it, I don't see a separate trigger that awards the "Take Raon l'Etape and Etival <Turn 19" objective, as I mentioned earlier.
I must fix that! I want the players to hustle up on those objectives. Otherwise, the scenario gets all balled up along the river around St Michel.

One last thing; I always believe that unless on-the-map units are supposed to truly do nothing unless attacked and destroyed, their AI team should be set to something other than "Idle," just in case. At least "Static Defense":
Actually, they are counterattacking units, so I want them to be idle and out of sight until their triggers are activated. Some players are offended (Gabe?) when counterattacking units appear out of nowhere, so I have given that technique up, and replaced it with units positioned for counterattack that are hidden and idle until provoked.

Well, that was an experience, as usual! An enjoyable one, if also a long one. I do know what I am getting into when I open up a Conboy scenario, so no excuses and no complaints from me. I cannot comment on balance and gameplay, but if you take care of these issues that I identified, I believe you will get better feedback now. Nice work and a lot of work, as usual. Beautiful map, too. Good luck with it.

Bru, I am baffled by your generosity – thank you very much. After I get these (many) fixes in, and do a playthrough, I’ll update the scenario and post it for peer review again before I put it on the von Paulus page. Hopefully I’ll get some feedback now that you have identified the errors, some of which ruined the gameplay.

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Re: New Scenario: Low Vosges to Strasbourg

Post by Erik2 » Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:42 pm

Glad you survived the sweep, conboy.
Our very own Bruce really was on a frenzy here.
This scenarios should be an interesting play. You really go off into the deep end with all your scripting :D

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Re: New Scenario: Low Vosges to Strasbourg

Post by GabeKnight » Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:41 pm

bru888 wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 2:11 am
So here is another example. You blow up certain bridges in the beginning, which is cool... [...]
I hope Bruce doesn't mind a second pair of eyes looking over his analysis :wink: , but I think he overlooked something in the "South Bridges" trigger section:
I don't think it'll work like this with the trigger event being "scen start" AND a "check turn" condition (?). I'd either use "scen start" event without any condition or a "turn start" event with "check turn". But maybe I'm just overthinking this. :D
conboy wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:56 pm
Actually, they are counterattacking units, so I want them to be idle and out of sight until their triggers are activated. Some players are offended (Gabe?) when counterattacking units appear out of nowhere, so I have given that technique up, and replaced it with units positioned for counterattack that are hidden and idle until provoked.
Yep, it was me :lol: and I think your solution should work just fine. The only "problem" should be to devise the correct timing for their arrival at the intended destination.
conboy wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:56 pm
Bru, I am baffled by your generosity – thank you very much.
Indeed. A thank you to you both (from one prospective player)!

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Re: New Scenario: Low Vosges to Strasbourg

Post by conboy » Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:43 pm

Erik:
Glad you survived the sweep, conboy.
Our very own Bruce really was on a frenzy here.
This scenarios should be an interesting play. You really go off into the deep end with all your scripting :D
Hope I didn't strain his patience! This one really had (has?) me discouraged for a while. But thanks for the encouragement! Hope to have it ready for second peer review on Sunday. The reason behind the scripting, as you know already, is that I'm attempting to portray the battle with as much fidelity in the way it progressed as possible.
There's a lesson learned here, but I can't tell what it is except don't go in over your head!

Gabe:
Thanks for your encouragement and critiques!

conboy

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Re: New Scenario: Low Vosges to Strasbourg

Post by conboy » Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:49 am

Bru:
You suggested the following:
I have been recommending to Erik at times the use of the "Check Objective State" condition in situations like this [where there are several objectives]. Instead of those "Phase I Objectives Not Held Turn 20" triggers, just this one that checks to see if the objective is still open and, if so, fails it at the start of the turn indicated:
So, this obviates the need to list all the objectives in the reciprocal column!?! Dayam! Thass very nice -- I have to remember that. Wish I had known that before. Requires a close read but the picture you posted made it very clear.

Thanks!

conboy

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Re: New Scenario: Low Vosges to Strasbourg

Post by conboy » Fri Oct 04, 2019 11:37 pm

GabeKnight said:
I don't think it'll work like this with the trigger event being "scen start" AND a "check turn" condition (?). I'd either use "scen start" event without any condition or a "turn start" event with "check turn". But maybe I'm just overthinking this.
It worked/works, hombre. All the selected bridges blow up at the start of the scenario, as desired. The "check turn" may not be required but it works on "scen start".

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Re: New Scenario: Low Vosges to Strasbourg

Post by terminator » Sat Oct 05, 2019 7:40 am

conboy wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 11:37 pm
GabeKnight said:
I don't think it'll work like this with the trigger event being "scen start" AND a "check turn" condition (?). I'd either use "scen start" event without any condition or a "turn start" event with "check turn". But maybe I'm just overthinking this.
It worked/works, hombre. All the selected bridges blow up at the start of the scenario, as desired. The "check turn" may not be required but it works on "scen start".
Of course it will work because Scenario start = Turn 1. Scenario Start and Turn Condition = 2 does not work.

But there is a little difference between Scenario Start and Check Turn =1 with the Event Popup :

- Event Popup at Scenario Start -> first the Objectives then the Event Popup :

Capture d’écran (342).jpg
Capture d’écran (342).jpg (459.67 KiB) Viewed 421 times

- Event Popup with Check Turn = 1 -> the Event Popup is over the Objectives :

Capture d’écran (340).jpg
Capture d’écran (340).jpg (225.36 KiB) Viewed 421 times

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Re: New Scenario: Low Vosges to Strasbourg

Post by bru888 » Sat Oct 05, 2019 4:07 pm

conboy wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:49 am
Bru:
You suggested the following:
I have been recommending to Erik at times the use of the "Check Objective State" condition in situations like this [where there are several objectives]. Instead of those "Phase I Objectives Not Held Turn 20" triggers, just this one that checks to see if the objective is still open and, if so, fails it at the start of the turn indicated:
So, this obviates the need to list all the objectives in the reciprocal column!?! Dayam! Thass very nice -- I have to remember that. Wish I had known that before. Requires a close read but the picture you posted made it very clear.

Thanks!

conboy
I cannot take credit for it because I have seen the guest designers use it successfully in official DLC. It's good for those occasions when, instead of an objective like "Hold all 4 VP's at scenario end (corresponding AI objective to hold at least 1 VP), you have "Hold Points W, X, Y, and Z." As you have experienced, the player's objective trigger is simple: just list all four points as Check Hex Owner conditions. The AI objective is the pain because you need to have an individual trigger for each point, any of which in the AI's possession at scenario end fails the objective.

Instead, the AI objective can be awarded merely as a consequence of the human objective not being achieved at scenario end. That's how it works, as shown by this test (to save time, I set it for Turn = 3 but "Scenario turn limit" will also work):

Screenshot 2.jpg
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Screenshot 3.jpg
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Screenshot 4.jpg
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Screenshot 5.jpg
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Screenshot 6.jpg
Screenshot 6.jpg (474.5 KiB) Viewed 406 times
- Bru

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Re: New Scenario: Low Vosges to Strasbourg

Post by conboy » Sat Oct 05, 2019 9:10 pm

Cool! Thanks again for the suggestion and explanation.

Given this revelation, I guess the only (or most obvious) time you'd want to list the reciprocal objective is when you want it to be "reversable" such as when you'd expect a v-hex be taken and retaken.

What a time-saver! Not only in set-up but also error-checking time.

conboy

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