CSI Sweep: Germany East 1941-42

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bru888
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Re: CSI Sweep: Germany East 1941-42

Post by bru888 » Thu Sep 05, 2019 10:30 pm

Stalingrad Docks v. 2.7

The "Hold the Stalingrad supply objective at all times" points to several other primary VP's in Stalingrad. Fortunately, as evidenced by the trigger, you seem to mean only this hex; if so, the others should be removed from that objective's hex links:

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Now, that Stalingrad supply hex and the two forward airfield hexes are all primary VP's. So is another hex to the south that the Germans own in the beginning. So when you require the player to "Capture all 9 objectives," he really must have 13 in the bag to win the scenario: the player starts holding 4 and is tasked with capturing another 9. Hence, this trigger should be set for "Value > 12" and the way it is now is why Bobster said "Ended 8 turns early after capturing the fifth objective, since we start with four":

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To make matters just a bit more confusing, the briefing says "At the very least, you must control at least six of your objectives to ensure victory." That probably should say ". . . you must control all nine of your assigned objectives . . ."

It may not be absolutely necessary but I would feel better if there were also Soviet AI objectives that matched up with the human player losing his "Hold the Stalingrad supply objective at all times" and "Defend the forward airfields at all times" objectives:

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Incidentally, I notice that you place hangars on the map to give some "structure" to airfields when they serve as key points. The trouble is, the game erases empty hangars as soon as the scenario starts:

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Perhaps it would be better to use airstrips, keeping in mind that they bring an additional +10 air supply each? "Ah, Bruce, you bloody fool," you may be saying (although you are probably too polite - or tired of saying it! :D ), "what about landed aircraft capacity?"

So to test, I constructed an airstrip and airfield separately, then placed an airstrip on an airfield:

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As we know, the airfield holds up to six planes while the airstrip holds only three. As you see above, though, an airstrip rules when it's placed on an airfield; only three planes maximum.

So you were right to question the idea. I am a fool. Please just watch your language! :x ( :wink: )
- Bru

bru888
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Re: CSI Sweep: Germany East 1941-42

Post by bru888 » Thu Sep 05, 2019 10:55 pm

Stalingrad Docks v. 2.7 (continued)

This Docks module is great! Very well-designed. Just a detail; air goodies are mentioned for three of the objectives:

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but not the fourth:

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This one is a humdinger. I am especially looking forward to playing it. I worry a bit about gameplay balance, seeing all those units at sea closing in, but Bobster did say "Ended 8 turns early after capturing the fifth objective." Maybe he wasn't around for the bloodbath, though. :wink:
- Bru

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Re: CSI Sweep: Germany East 1941-42

Post by bru888 » Fri Sep 06, 2019 12:32 am

Whatever happened to the request for them to look into this missing date field? I can't even find the thread in which we talked about it. I know it was before 8.1.0; was it before 7.1.6/7.1.8? Whenever it was and wherever the thread is, it's not fixed:

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I believe its main purpose was to "stretch" out the Specialisations tree so that its proper structure could be seen. For example, by showing 1940 or 1939 on the vertical axis, the player could see the line that links "Magnetron Radar" to "Scrambling," indicating that one needs the radar before acquiring the scrambling:

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The mechanism does work; if one purchases "Magnetron Radar" then "Scrambling" becomes available (same with "Specialized Training" and "Auftragstaktik"). It just would look better if they would put the "Start date" back into the Campaign Editor "Specializations" tab. And have it work, of course.

Thread to be continued . . .
- Bru

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Re: CSI Sweep: Germany East 1941-42

Post by bru888 » Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:31 am

Stalingrad Ruins v. 2.7

See my comments in the Smolensk post about the need for AI primary objectives and the way "Sov" triggers need to be designed in order to provide for a human Defeat. See the parenthetical sentences in the beginning of the Ostrov post for additional comments.

The outcome comments were omitted. As you know, you can get them here: https://panzercorps.gamepedia.com/Stalingrad_Ruins

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Don't forget your usual 0-0-1-1-1 outcome image links.

I have a design question. "Defend Gumrak at all times" is one of the primary objectives. This is it here:

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It's defended by a handful of Italian units. Soviet AI Team 1 is lurking nearby, awaiting orders (more on that later); I am thinking that their orders will be to advance on Gumrak. If that is so, why isn't the player allowed to deploy any German/Waffen SS units in that sector in order to help defend it? Or is the idea that Axis forces must quickly fight their way to Gumrak? Yes, the only proactive mission is to "Open supply line Gumrak -> Stalingrad" but the player may be somewhat preoccupied with attacks on the other objectives. Depending on how soon the Soviets move on Gumrak, the human player should get a warning of its jeopardy in the briefing. Or let him figure it out for himself but give him the opportunity to fortify Gumrak with some deployment there.

Here is the "more on that later" - you mean to send AI Team 1/Zone-2 someplace on Turn 2 (I am betting it's Gumrak) but the Target Hex is missing:

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- Bru

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Re: CSI Sweep: Germany East 1941-42

Post by bru888 » Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:20 am

Stalingrad Ruins v. 2.7 (continued)

A couple of observations about this trigger:

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First, the "Scenario turn limit" condition is not compatible with "-1" repeating frequency. The trigger cannot repeat if it is checked only at the end of the scenario. If you are providing for the possibility of a supply connection to be made, broken, and re-established, you need to remove this condition.

Second, I'm not sure if you want the repeating frequency anyway due to the nature of the other primary objectives. If the player is holding Gumrak, the airfield, and the other Stalingrad locations when a supply connection is made, the scenario is over. Even if one or more of the other objectives have been already failed, I think the scenario is still over.

So I am going to venture a guess. I believe your intention was for the player to play all 24 turns in this scenario and the supply connection be evaluated at the end. If so, this is how I would do it (I created a Soviet AI objective for this):

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Hey, thanks for the additional CP's but apparently you don't care if they starve! (Then again, here's a somber thought - this is Stalingrad . . .) In all three "Ger Stalingrad" triggers, this Effect is wrong:

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I admire this trigger. On Turn 19, if the Germans are still holding all six primary VP's, all Soviet AI teams are ordered to go berserk! But there is a problem with it:

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The logic is this: For it to fire, there must have just been a "Capture VP Event." If the Germans have all six primary VP's, then it must fire when the Soviets take one of those VP's. But then it will not fire because the Germans will have only five primary VP's. The only way it will fire is if the Germans take back that VP but what would be the point? The associated objective of holding it is already failed.

So, the easy answer is to change this Trigger Event to "Check Turn" or "Any Event."

One last thing. AI Team 17/Local-7 is "Idle" until activated by that trigger. Perhaps they should be set for at least "Static Defense" or "Local Defense" in the meantime?

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- Bru

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Re: CSI Sweep: Germany East 1941-42

Post by bru888 » Sat Sep 07, 2019 2:30 am

Kotelnikovo v. 2.7

Briefing: "You should expect heavy enemy resistance to stall your efforts and the efforts of our relief force which has been sent to link up with you."

You have one of those dreaded Deployment Hex / Exit Hex combinations here:

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Maybe a few more Deployment Hexes here, considering this is one of those "Hold at all times" objectives? (But don't hit the Exit Hex with one.) Moreover, perhaps the player would prefer a two-prong attack, with Manstein moving northeast in force rather than just holding Kotelnokovo:

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This AI objective is misplaced; if you meant it as a counterpart for the secondary objective "Do not lose more than 3 Waffen SS units," it is not needed:

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Instead, it should have been something like "Soviet towns" and be used as I show below:

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- Bru

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Re: CSI Sweep: Germany East 1941-42

Post by bru888 » Sat Sep 07, 2019 3:10 am

Kotelnikovo v. 2.7 (continued)

The mission is "Defend Abganerovo for 10 turns." This trigger denies the Soviets their chance to take that objective on Turn 10. That is, the human player should play his Turn 10 and then endure the Soviets' Turn 10 and still be holding Abganerovo to keep this objective completed. Hence, it should be set for "Turn < 11":

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Bobster's complaint about Kotelnikovo was that it "Ends as soon as you have the primary objectives, so no chance to evacuate 12 units." While there is nothing wrong with the trigger involved [*see edit below], he does have a valid complaint. Whether you move from Abganerovo to Kotelnikovo, or choose to have a dual advance to the middle, the player is probably going to need all his core units to achieve the "Hold" and "Capture 4 towns and villages" objectives. Once those towns and villages are captured, however, the scenario is over.

The best solution, I think, but not the easiest, is to make "Exit at least 12 core units" a primary objective. Have it turned off to start and enabled only when "Capture 4 towns and villages" is completed and if Kotelnikovo is still in Axis hands. You would need an Event Popup message, a corresponding AI objective to thwart the exit, and another set of objective triggers, of course. Maybe replace the "Exit at least 12 core units" as a secondary objective with something like "Destroy the Soviet KV-2."

Oh, and perhaps provide another Exit Hex or two down there in Kotelnikovo (but watch out for Deployment Hexes). To exit 12 units one at a time with only one Exit Hex will take 12 turns in itself and the scenario comprises only 18 turns.

The trouble with the "Do not lose more than 3 Waffen SS units" objective is that there are only two such units in the scenario to begin with. Only if the player answers "Yes" to the "Transfer stuff to Waffen SS?" question does the objective become relevant; otherwise, it's a "gimme" (easy win for no effort):

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Perhaps you can enable that objective and its triggers only if the player does respond "Yes." All the more reason, then for another non-discretionary secondary objective like "Destroy the Soviet KV-2."

[*EDIT- Actually, there is a nuance in that "Exit core units" trigger which needs to be considered. Aren't the Waffen SS units also core? In that case, instead of filtering by Nation, you should filter by Alliance.]


Thread to be continued . . .
- Bru

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Re: CSI Sweep: Germany East 1941-42

Post by bru888 » Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:25 pm

Escape from Stalingrad v. 2.7

A sprinkling of orphans, all fighters:

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While deployment could be possible in certain pockets around the map, supply levels prohibit doing so:

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which means all initial deployment must be done here, near Stalingrad (as designed, I'm sure):

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That being the case, then land supply looks to be a bit tight; better add +5 to cover specialisation CP's.

This trigger would probably eventually work - there's plenty of combat going on all the time - but if you want to be sure, say in the situation where the last Hungarian unit exits in the last turn after the last combat, then you should set it for "Move Event" or "Any Event":

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- Bru

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Re: CSI Sweep: Germany East 1941-42

Post by bru888 » Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:50 pm

Tatsinskaya v. 2.7

Scenario Description: "Axis forces attempt to hold on to their main lifeline to Stalingrad." (swap the words in "line-life" and remove the hyphen)

There's a discrepancy here. Briefing: "Your orders are to hold at least 6 objectives, no matter the cost." Objective: "Defend at least 5 objectives at scenario end." Per the triggers, the player is expected to hold onto 5 out of 8 primary VP's.

It's a razor-thin margin, but the player will be 1 supply point short of full deployment given +8 specialisation CP's (two specialisations, two CP's each, for two factions) because 119 + 18 + 8 = 145 (I used a calculator :) ) and the land supply surplus on the map is +144:

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The "Set Objective State" effect on this trigger should be set to "Completed" for the AI Soviet "4objs" objective:

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Well, this Ju52 module is quite ambitious and well-designed, I must say. Other than the name of the trigger folder, I couldn't find a thing wrong with it. Everything that I thought of - mismatched planes for condition and effect; no label on the exit hex for the player to find; a traffic tie-up around the hex - was negative. Indeed, the triggers were perfect, the exit hex is labeled, and exit triggers set for "Move Event" means no traffic jam. Congratulations, seriously. The only very minor suggestion would be to reveal the hex so that it shines through the fog of war:

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"Ger Nikolaev" trigger, Event Popup message: "An additional Waffen SS unit is available." (delete the "s" from "units" . . . nay, recycle the "s" instead by moving it over to "ia" and replacing the "a" with it)

As I said for a similar situation in Escape from Stalingrad, this trigger may eventually work but it might be better to set it for "Move Event" or "Any Event":

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By the way, the Ju 52 [Supply] plane works for this purpose. As we saw earlier in this thread, it will have the odd effect of adding +3 land supply for each of these planes while it's in the air, but I doubt that will have a significant effect on gameplay:

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Thread NOT to be continued. 28 scenarios up, 28 scenarios down. Peace. :|
- Bru

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