Carthaginian army

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miki
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Carthaginian army

Post by miki » Mon Jan 16, 2006 9:10 pm

Hi gents,

I'm currently playing a Carthaginian army campaign (Hard level, 150 DIFF as per my previous post). Its made of a mix of libyan-phoenician core beefed up with mercenaries.

Its made of:

Legate (libyan general)
Scout (Numidian cavalry)
Toga militia (libyan levy)
Tunic militia (libyan-Numidian levy)
Spears (Sacred league-lybian)
Spears (Sacred league-lybian)
Warriors (Iberian mercenaries)
Spears (Sicilian hoplites)
Warriors (Celtic mercenaries)
Javelinmen (Numidian-moor)
Javelinmen (libyans)
Warriors (Sicilian mercenaries)
Warriors (Iberian mercenaries)
Auxilia Cavalry (libyan heavy cavalry)

My plan is to expand the army with:

Nobles (Iberian mercenary Cavalry)
Nobles (Celtic mercenary cavalry)
Triarii (libyan phalanx)
Triarii (libyian Phalanx)
Principes (Annibal veterans with roman equipment)
and perhaps a unit of elephants or one of celtic archers
Saludos
Miki

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Post by spedius01 » Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:30 pm

Ave miki,

How very creative of you, my hat is off to you, my friend. (miki04 perhaps, what do you think?)

Come on guys, miki has been a "pathfinder" yet again, "exploring the areas where others fear to tread".

Initially, Sltherine "opened the door", miki has simply stepped through it.

Basically, the "enemy" in Legion Arena are reworked versions of the troop types already available to us from either the Roman or Celtic armies. If you simply rename them, whilst in the Army Camp screen, and use a bit of imagination, you can put together many different national armies to play the campaigns with. I'll be very interested to see what you guys can come up with?

Vale

M. Spedius Corbulo
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duncan
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Post by duncan » Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:40 pm

What about the famous iberian slingers?

You could use the skirmishers' animation and use stones instead of javelins...
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spedius01
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Post by spedius01 » Tue Jan 17, 2006 2:04 pm

duncan wrote:What about the famous iberian slingers?
You could use the skirmishers' animation and use stones instead of javelins...
Ave duncan,

Great idea, but do you know how to change javelins into stones, I don't?

Maybe we could "mod" the effects, ranges or rates of fire to simulate slingers?

What do you think?

Keep the ideas rolling in, duncan.

Vale

M. Spedius Corbulo
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Post by duncan » Tue Jan 17, 2006 2:19 pm

spedius01 wrote:Great idea, but do you know how to change javelins into stones, I don't?
I have no idea :lol: , but it could be done. The LA Mod Squad has been rearranging graphics right from the start and you're showing great skills!!!!! The main idea is xhange the javelin/arrow and use a black (bunch of) point resembling a stone instead. And we should add some slings...I'm just having ideas, don't know if they're feasible.
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Post by grimsta » Tue Jan 17, 2006 2:42 pm

well if the game supports it we could change the arrow head to a stone texture, and then alpha out the rest of the body so you only see the head.....
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Post by duncan » Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:30 pm

grimsta wrote:well if the game supports it we could change the arrow head to a stone texture, and then alpha out the rest of the body so you only see the head.....
It looks good...the slings will be a completely different problem.

I wonder what Miki thinks about it, he seems to be kinda an eminence in balearic slingers, he asked for them when LA wasn't released yet. He might have an idea or two...
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Post by miki » Wed Jan 18, 2006 11:23 am

Thanks for your kind words, guys. But, definetively, I'm not an eminence on balearic slingers :oops:

I think there's a parametre in squads.txt file called "projectile lenght" or something similar. It would be key for modding "shorter arrows" that could be seen as sling projectiles?

OTOH, the unit that most resembles a balearic slinger is the toga militia (roman side). Drop the spear, give him slings, and you have it.
Saludos
Miki

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Post by Redpossum » Wed Jan 18, 2006 10:28 pm

Before the balearic slingers came to prominence, the master slingers of the ancient world were the Rhodians.

In fact, the weapon itself is properly called a rhodian war sling.

I was looking into this a few years back, and was impressed by what I learned. The rhodian war sling was 4-5 feet in length (call it 1.3 to 1.6 meters), and usually fired a 1 oz (circa 28 grams) lead bullet.

That's right, amateurs may have used rocks (five smooth stones, baby, five smooth stones!), but professionals used specially-cast lead bullets. They were described as a double-pointed almond, that is an almond with two pointy ends, rather than one pointy end and a round end.

Think about this. A 5' long sling, is 2.5' doubled over. That's a BIG circle around your head. Think about those velocities, then think about getting hit by a 1 oz lead bullet moving that fast.

Folks, 1 oz is the size of a 20-gauge shotgun slug. Granted, you wouldn't get shotgun-like velocities, but still...

Shield? What shield?

If you got hit in the head, your helmet might stop penetration, but the transferred kinetic energy would still kill or cripple you.

In the modern age, we hear "sling" and think of a child's toy. I am suggesting that the war sling of the ancients was emphatically not a toy!

There's another aspect to the sling, which I am a bit reluctant to mention, because I don't understand it myself.

First, you folks know what precession is? The best example is a gyroscope. When a gyroscope is spinning, and you push it, it does not move in the direction you pushed it, it moves 90 degrees to that direction.

The author I was reading suggested that because of the rotary motion of a sling, there was a precession-like effect that made aiming with a sling easier than aiming a bow. But try as I would, I just could not follow his explanation of why this was so. Perhaps some of the community here will see what I missed. All gods witness, there's a few of you are certainly more intellectually gifted than I am ;)

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Post by sum1won » Thu Jan 19, 2006 2:40 am

Im not sure I follow it either. Wouldn't aiming at something make you more accurate than having to aim 90 degrees t the right of it?

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Post by fatetriarrii » Thu Jan 19, 2006 3:49 am

Maybe not. just look turn so your shoulder is to your enemy and look down your side. If you stretch your arm, it might be used as a good sight. Release the rock or bullet when it is in front of your chest, right? I have never tried, so don't trust me, I am just speculating. I like the information on the slingers, btw possum.

How did you make the sling?

And congrats on unlocking the newest forum icon, a noble :D

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Slinging

Post by honvedseg » Thu Jan 19, 2006 4:22 pm

First, there were a number of different projectiles used, although "bullets" of lead or baked clay seem to be the most commonly found. Pebbles may have been commonly used, but would be hard to distinguish from other stones, so we aren't sure about the "normal" ammo load. Either the lead or the clay projectiles could "cut" through most shields and armor of the period, making them lethal for skirmish fire. The large amount of room required for their use would prevent them from being employed in mass formations like bows, and the scattered slingers would need protection against direct attack by massed units.

Release of a sling is supposed to occur as your hand reaches its forward limit. Simply put, you point your finger at the target, thereby releasing the line, right at the end of your reach. At this point, the projectile end of the sling would be at 90 degrees to the targeted direction (straight out to one side), but moving directly forward. In theory, the "bullet" should strike about 2-3 feet to the side of your intended aim point (the length of the doubled sling). You would adjust your aim point accordingly with practice.

Longer slings are pictured occasionally, including rare scenes of slingers on "towers", wielding extremely long slings of an estimated 8-12 feet. Such a monstrous device would require a seperate loader standing beneath the tower, and would probably have thrown a standard size projectile, only much farther. Such "sling artillery" would have had an abysmally low rate of fire, but would easily have outranged the typical bows during a seige. Exact dimensions are not reliable, as the reliefs and fragments of such images are stylized too far for any believable accuracy.

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re. slings

Post by spedius01 » Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:36 pm

Ave all,

Just like add my bit to the "slings" thread.

I have a 1985 film on video, remember them, starring Daryl Hannah called "The Clan of the Cave Bear" based on a book by Jean M. Auel. In which she plays Ayla, a banished "forced to fight and survive alone" stone age woman. She discovers a sling and proceeds to learn how to use it. Some of her early efforts are quite amusing, and painful, but she eventually "susses" it out. She uses the "point your finger" technique. This is the only occasion, that I can remember, where I actually saw a sling being used. Apart from the David and Goliath scene in "King David" starring Richard Gere, of course.

BTW, there's a technique for throwing arrows. You wrap a piece of string, with a knot in one end, around an arrow. You then throw it, using the string, with a kind of whipping motion. It creates additional velocity and really makes that arrow fly. I haven't tried it since I was a boy, but it really does work. If you thow an arrow like a spear it will only go so far. If you throw an arrow using the string technique it will travel much futher. The Aborigines in Australia, use a throwing stick, with a similar effect, for their spears.

Vale

M. Spedius Corbulo

PS. A relevant website, slinging.org here
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