Do Pursuers burst through?

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hazelbark
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Do Pursuers burst through?

Post by hazelbark » Fri Aug 22, 2014 7:12 pm

Interesting not particularly critical situation.

(everyone faces down)

SSSS
R
__22

R is a broken enemy Spear.
S is friendly MF spear in pursuit of R that just broke in melee
2 is a friend MF spear unit that has 2 bases in front of S but none blocking R.

So R routs VMD +2 not a problem. S also VMD +2. But it will hit friendly unit "2"
So does S burst through or stop? Two bases are blocked so it can't drop back.
I used to think it stopped. But re-reading I think it might burst through.

Thoughts?

zoltan
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Re: Do Pursuers burst through?

Post by zoltan » Sat Aug 23, 2014 6:49 am

See p116 digital, last bullet. Pursues contact fresh enemy. Bursting through is a mechanism that applies to routers and their friends.

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Re: Do Pursuers burst through?

Post by petedalby » Sat Aug 23, 2014 7:41 am

I believe they drop back sufficient bases to allow them to continue the pursuit Dan.

See page 116 - 5th bullet. Bases is plural. Dropping back a single base is permitted in a charge - pursuits appears to be as many as you need.
Pete

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Re: Do Pursuers burst through?

Post by zoltan » Sat Aug 23, 2014 8:54 am

So do pursuers have the option of slamming into fresh enemy to fight a new impact or dropping back as many bases as they like to avoid the fresh enemy? Either way, pursuers definitely don't break through fresh enemy.

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Re: Do Pursuers burst through?

Post by petedalby » Sat Aug 23, 2014 11:24 am

I think one of us has mis-read Dan's post.

I read it that S & 2 are on the same side? R is a broken enemy BG.

Dan?
So do pursuers have the option of slamming into fresh enemy to fight a new impact or dropping back as many bases as they like to avoid the fresh enemy?
Pursuers can contact fresh enemy. I do not believe they can drop bases back to avoid enemy - only friends.
Either way, pursuers definitely don't break through fresh enemy.
Agreed. I don't think anyone has suggested they should?
Pete

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Re: Do Pursuers burst through?

Post by zoltan » Sat Aug 23, 2014 12:32 pm

Dan's original question was whether pursuer S will burst through bg 2, or drop back to pass it. Unfortunately his use of the term 'friendly' in relation to 2 is ambiguous. Is 2 friendly to S or to the routing bg?

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Re: Do Pursuers burst through?

Post by hazelbark » Sat Aug 23, 2014 8:33 pm

petedalby wrote:I think one of us has mis-read Dan's post.

I read it that S & 2 are on the same side? R is a broken enemy BG.
Yes they are.

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Re: Do Pursuers burst through?

Post by zoltan » Sat Aug 23, 2014 8:58 pm

So Dan's fundamental question is: do pursuers ever break through their own friends?

My view is that pursuers never break through anyone; it's only routers who do any breaking through.

petedalby
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Re: Do Pursuers burst through?

Post by petedalby » Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:05 pm

Yes they are.
Good - so my answer stands - pursuers can drop as many bases as they need to, to avoid friends.
Pete

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Re: Do Pursuers burst through?

Post by zoltan » Sun Aug 24, 2014 8:35 am

petedalby wrote:
Yes they are.
Good - so my answer stands - pursuers can drop as many bases as they need to, to avoid friends.
Pursuers MUST drop as many bases as they need to, to avoid friends? i.e. They can't voluntarily stop in front of their friends and give up the pursuit. And they certainly don' break through their own friends.

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Re: Do Pursuers burst through?

Post by petedalby » Sun Aug 24, 2014 1:12 pm

Pursuers MUST drop as many bases as they need to, to avoid friends?
The rules say 'can contract frontage' - not 'must' - which implies a level of choice?
Pete

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Re: Do Pursuers burst through?

Post by hazelbark » Sun Aug 24, 2014 4:33 pm

I see this now. You are right Pete. I had just assumed one width.

So what if you don't want to contract bases? Do you burst through or halt?

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Re: Do Pursuers burst through?

Post by petedalby » Sun Aug 24, 2014 5:30 pm

So what if you don't want to contract bases? Do you burst through or halt?
I can't see that the rules permit a burst though so presumably you could halt? Or test not to pursue if it's a subsequent pursuit?

It's a pretty unusual situation though Dan so I wouldn't get too hung up on it.
Pete

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Re: Do Pursuers burst through?

Post by hazelbark » Sun Aug 24, 2014 7:42 pm

petedalby wrote: It's a pretty unusual situation though Dan so I wouldn't get too hung up on it.
Very unusual. But you know once we find these...Ruddock will exploit them.

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Re: Do Pursuers burst through?

Post by grahambriggs » Tue Aug 26, 2014 8:54 am

petedalby wrote:
Pursuers MUST drop as many bases as they need to, to avoid friends?
The rules say 'can contract frontage' - not 'must' - which implies a level of choice?
I think the early part of the pursuit rules gives you the absolute - something along the lines of "follow the routers". The level of choice implied by "can contract frontage" could be as a choice between ways of moving - e.g. a wheel, a permitted interpenetration (can't remember if that's allowed in a pursuit), etc.

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Re: Do Pursuers burst through?

Post by dave_r » Tue Aug 26, 2014 9:04 am

hazelbark wrote:
petedalby wrote: It's a pretty unusual situation though Dan so I wouldn't get too hung up on it.
Very unusual. But you know once we find these...Ruddock will exploit them.
Phooey. I've been using this wheeze for years...

When you pursue you have the option of dropping bases or stopping when you meet friends.

Can be very useful.
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Re: Do Pursuers burst through?

Post by zoltan » Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:56 am

dave_r wrote:
hazelbark wrote:
petedalby wrote: It's a pretty unusual situation though Dan so I wouldn't get too hung up on it.
Very unusual. But you know once we find these...Ruddock will exploit them.
Phooey. I've been using this wheeze for years...

When you pursue you have the option of dropping bases or stopping when you meet friends.

Can be very useful.
OK so it's acceptable practice in the UK to position a friendly BG as an 'impassable' to prevent friends hairing off after routers. That's good to know, thanks Dave.

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Re: Do Pursuers burst through?

Post by pyruse » Tue Aug 26, 2014 12:42 pm

He said he does it, not that it is acceptable practice. :-)

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Re: Do Pursuers burst through?

Post by dave_r » Tue Aug 26, 2014 1:06 pm

pyruse wrote:He said he does it, not that it is acceptable practice. :-)
I prefer to deal with the words "legal" and "illegal" rather than "acceptable" and "unacceptable".
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