Chariots, Commanders, and Elephants

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Tokhuah
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Chariots, Commanders, and Elephants

Post by Tokhuah » Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:30 pm

Over a year has passed since I first picked up the FoG rule book and a starter army. Life happened... but now the skies have cleared and I am in the process of basing (so I can play immediately and paint as I go along). At this point I have a few questions regarding Chariots and a few other related elements of FoG. For context, I have an Indian Starter Army and a bunch of extra Chariots and Elephants including Commander alternatives (mentioned later). Since I am a newb to FoG tabletop please refer to the books and page numbers whenever possible so I can learn where to access answers to similar questions in the future. Also, I am not sure if this is helpful or just a distraction, but I have been playing the digital version of FoG.

Chariot related questions:
-What are the specific differences in the characteristics between Light and Heavy chariots? Light version has 1 more MU but I am unclear about armor (Are Heavy Chariots heavy armored and Light Chariots unprotected?), number of dice to use, etc. Elephants also have no armor designation so I am curious how armor works for them also.
-Light Chariots can charge or skirmish but are not skirmishers. (FoG, 128) I do not understand what this means, to Skirmish vs Charge (what is the difference?). Also, Chariots do not have melee weapons so but they can melee, right?
-See: Cost of Combat Capabilities: Camelry +2 (FoG, p. 149). What does this mean?

Commanders and other Crew
-Indian Commanders are depicted on Chariots, Elephants, or ​Cavalry (IF, P. 33). Does this mean they get all the abilities associated with the Chariots, Elephants, or Cavalry they are depicted on? Will two elephants and a Commander on an elephant make a BG of 3 elephants?
-Why did my Essex figures come with Javalineers for each Chariot when there is no Javalineer option for Chariots?

Thank you in advance to anyone who can help me through these rules issues!
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paullongmore
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Re: Chariots, Commanders, and Elephants

Post by paullongmore » Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:21 am

-What are the specific differences in the characteristics between Light and Heavy chariots?
Different movement rates (Terrain dependant)
Heavy are shock (Impeteous and no test to charge if disrupted)
Heavy get POA in impact and melee
Light have the option to evade and the movement option to test to be able to back up 2 inches
Both count 2 dice per base in melee and impact but fight 1 base deep.
Similar to Elephants they have no armor designation so in melee neither side can have a POA due to an armour advantage.
-Light Chariots can charge or skirmish but are not skirmishers. (FoG, 128). Light chariots can evade vs a charge (similar to skirmishers). However, they are not skirmishers (Light horse and Light foot) which have specific rules including that they cannot stand in the open versus non-skirmishers.
Chariots do not have melee weapons but they can melee. Hvy Chariots have a POA for being Hvy chariots.
Camels are similar to cavalry (although you can get Cataphract ones) They have a specific ability to disorganise horses due to which their cost is increased.

Commanders and other Crew
-Indian Commanders are depicted on Chariots, Elephants, or ​Cavalry (IF, P. 33).
Commanders depiction only matters if they are Elephants or not. All commanders move as light horse however depicted and can only modify the unit they are with by raising its grading if fighting on the front rank. They get no abilities associated with the Chariots, Elephants, or Cavalry they are depicted on?
The reason it matters if they are depicted as Elephants is only Elephant commanders can fight with Elephants. All Elephants are average so get no rerolls but with an Elephant commander fighting they are effectively superior and get to reroll 1s. However, Elephant depicted commanders cannot fight with other mounted. With an Indian army you therefore potentially want a mix of Elephants and chariots which being on 40mm by 40mm bases can alternatively be used as Elephants or chariots.
Two elephants and a Commander on an elephant do not make a BG of 3 elephants. A commander is not counted as a figure.
In FOG the classification of troops is by fighting style not depiction. Some Lance bow cav are classed as lancers and others as bow sword depending on temprement/ fighting style. Indian charioteers do not get the javelin capability but should be depicted historically i.e. as Javalineers

Hope this helps

Easiest way to learn the rules is to play against someone who knows them.

Paul

petedalby
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Re: Chariots, Commanders, and Elephants

Post by petedalby » Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:31 am

Hi - when you have multiples questions it is easier to break them up into separate topics - but here goes! Looking at your page ref you have FoGV1.
Also, I am not sure if this is helpful or just a distraction, but I have been playing the digital version of FoG.
They are entirely different so not helpful.
-What are the specific differences in the characteristics between Light and Heavy chariots?
Movement you have. Lt Ch can evade if in 1 rank - p64. And HvyCh have different melee factors - p96. So they have different battlefield roles. The LtCh are faster and designed to delay and avoid melee unless it is favourable to them. The HvyCh are good impact and combat troops. Chariots & Elephants have no armour class - p15. So they ignore opponents armour in melee.

Looks like Paul has covered most of your other questions. Come back if you need more.
Pete

Tokhuah
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Re: Chariots, Commanders, and Elephants

Post by Tokhuah » Sat Oct 10, 2015 1:02 am

Thank you for the replies. I did not realize that my rule book was first edition. I ordered V2 today and bought the electronic version to start learning everything I missed. The Commanders on elephants are particularly useful information because I want to include more of those when I expand into custom lists.

@paullongmore, since you seem to know something about the history: Did Indian (particularly Mauryan) Javalineers (Medium Footmen) fight in tight formations like the Romans? I like the way they look slightly spread apart with three on a base rather than shoulder to shoulder with four but I also do not want to be totally inaccurate from an historical perspective.

More on Javalineers and chariots. My main problem is a Heavy Chariot with 2 Javs, 2 Bow, 2 Drivers looks like a clown car so I am trying to cut down the number of figures. Not using any of the included Javs and Bows (4 figs) in lieu of the more dynamic styled Med Foot version of the Bows (2 figs) looks super cool but I do not want to present something that is totally off. Not having the same problem with the light Chariots. Sorry, this last part was not really rules related...

EDIT:
paullongmore wrote: Easiest way to learn the rules is to play against someone who knows them.
If the three of us who are starting to play can find someone we will!
suck it

paullongmore
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Re: Chariots, Commanders, and Elephants

Post by paullongmore » Mon Oct 12, 2015 11:24 am

I would not claim to know much about the history but the classification by the army list author who presumably did, of the Indian Javalineers as Medium Footmen rather than heavy foot means either that they fought in a loose style or that they were particularly vulnerable to mounted (probably both). Whether you have 3 or 4 per base is personal choice so if you like the way they look with three on a base I would definitely do that as it saves on figures (mine are 3 to a base). Incidently the javelins are pretty rubbish so stick with the minimum when making up your list.

I agree with you on the crewing of chariots I had 2 Javs, 2 Bow & 2 Drivers on mine which as you perfectly describe looks like a clown car and meant they hung over the back of the base so I just took two of them off same as yourself.

Paul

philqw78
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Re: Chariots, Commanders, and Elephants

Post by philqw78 » Mon Oct 12, 2015 4:31 pm

Put the extra crew on the base as chariot runners, which they may well have been anyway. Or if you want to save money like Scrooge mcDuck base them in with your other infantry.
Only joking, the 3 or 4 figures per base is a hangover from older rule sets
phil
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Tokhuah
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Re: Chariots, Commanders, and Elephants

Post by Tokhuah » Tue Oct 13, 2015 3:29 am

More great advice, thanks. I checked with my E-Reader V2 rules and 3-4 is still good. Also, it looks like I will be able to run half the Javelineers from the starter army list (minimum 6), so the miniature "savings" will likely stay in the box.

I also found Kautilya's Arthashastra written by the teacher of Emperor Chandragupta Maurya. To paraphrase a bit, the book recommends footmen stand approximately 11-12 inches apart rather than packed in like their Greek and future Roman counterparts. Furthermore, he writes that any packed in armies should be trampled by elephants. Good times!
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