Pursuing into Fresh enemy

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philqw78
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Pursuing into Fresh enemy

Post by philqw78 »

Played a game last night. My BG broke its opponents and pursued. Its pursuit move took it into an enemy BG. The enemy were already in combat and the contact was not a legal flank charge although contact was made on its flank. Therefore it was not a legal charge. What is supposed to happen?

Do the pursuers get an impact?
Do they contact the fresh enemy and stop, conforming to overlap in the next manoeuver phase without impact?
Can the pursuers wheel to avoid the contact with fresh enemy since it is not a legal contact?
If the enemy (that may or may not be contacted) are fragmented do they need to take a test for being charged whilst fragmented?
phil
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terrys
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Re: Pursuing into Fresh enemy

Post by terrys »

Page 109 explains what happens if pursuers CONTACT fresh enemy in any phase:
It is treated as a charge on the contacted enemy.

This means that:
> The contacted BG has to take a test for being charged while fragmented.
If they pass the test:
> If the pursuit was in the impact phase they fight in impact immediately as if they were contacted by 1 base frontally.
or
> If the pursuit was in the melee or pursuit phase they fight an impact during the following impact phase.
or
> If the pursuit and contact was in the shooting phase (possible) - they will never fight an impact phase, but will fight as an overlap in the next melee phase (conforming if it was the pursuers move).
prb4
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Re: Pursuing into Fresh enemy

Post by prb4 »

That's all fine if they CONTACT the enemy.
I don't think the situation described is a legal charge contact though.

I'm not sure about wheeling to avoid the enemy you can't contact but they can wheel to pursue the routers which may well end up being the same thing.
dave_r
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Re: Pursuing into Fresh enemy

Post by dave_r »

My take would be that it is only treated as a charge once the BG gas made contact. Therefore the BG does not have to satisfy the legal contact requirements.
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philqw78
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Re: Pursuing into Fresh enemy

Post by philqw78 »

So no actual answer then. It certainly would not have been a legal contact in the impact phase, but pursuit would have meant it contacting the enemy, unless since it wasn't a legal contact they couldn't. In which case they could have wheeled, avoiding the fresh enemy and keeping contact with the routers. Nicely lining themselves up far a charge in their next impact phase.
phil
putting the arg into argumentative, except for the lists I check where there is no argument!
terrys
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Re: Pursuing into Fresh enemy

Post by terrys »

So no actual answer then. It certainly would not have been a legal contact in the impact phase, but pursuit would have meant it contacting the enemy, unless since it wasn't a legal contact they couldn't. In which case they could have wheeled, avoiding the fresh enemy and keeping contact with the routers. Nicely lining themselves up far a charge in their next impact phase.
If I was writing a set of rules that wasn't going to be subject to competition players I'd simply have put "do what seems most reasonable".

However, since this is not the case I'l quote the following rules:

>> Page 50: A battle group makes a 'legal' charge contact if at least one it's bases contacts an enemy base either:
> with its front edge, or
> with its front corner only against the enemy base's edge.

>> Page 52: A charge cannot be declared if it would contact only the flank or rear edge of an enemy base which is already in melee to its front.

>> Page 109:
> Pursuers normally contact and fresh enemy in their path
> If pursuers contact fresh enemy in any phase, this is treated as a charge on the contacted enemy.

* This contact obviously passes the requirement for a legal contact on page 50.
** It does not pass the requirement for declaring a charge on page 52 - However, since it is NOT a 'declared charge' this restriction does not apply.
*** Page 109 basically states that there is no other available option other than to contact this enemy and states that it is "treated as a charge" - which is entirely different from a "declared charge"

So - Although this contact could not be made by a declared charge - it is perfectly legal during a pursuit.
philqw78
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Re: Pursuing into Fresh enemy

Post by philqw78 »

I trusted you, it was that Ruddock bloke that threw mud into the water
phil
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dave_r
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Re: Pursuing into Fresh enemy

Post by dave_r »

What's wrong with chucking mud in the water? Surely that's what you do when you have your annual bath?
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dave_r
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Re: Pursuing into Fresh enemy

Post by dave_r »

terrys wrote:If I was writing a set of rules that wasn't going to be subject to competition players I'd simply have put "do what seems most reasonable".
You did try that on numerous occasions, but we managed to pull you up on that sort of outrageous nonsense.

Mainly by following the "KMS rule".
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philqw78
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Re: Pursuing into Fresh enemy

Post by philqw78 »

dave_r wrote:What's wrong with chucking mud in the water? Surely that's what you do when you have your annual bath?
I prefer to say I bathe regularly
phil
putting the arg into argumentative, except for the lists I check where there is no argument!
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